Why am I out DPSING DPS?

General Discussion
It's simple and was perfectly answered in the first reply OP.

Bad dps is bad dps. It isn't a question of, "why can you do more than them?" rather than the people in question not knowing their rotation, stat prioritized wrong, or idle time (I see plenty of dps stand for some seconds before doing another move). It also could be that some people just really don't care and therefor aren't necessarily "trying". After all, it is dps who would typically not care hence the reason they are not tanks or healers.
Well you are 870IL. Tanks also out DPS many DPS on large trash pulls. Things just die so fast that anything with a cast time you can forget about.
11/08/2016 11:10 AMPosted by Verkira
Knee-jerk response: Nooooo you'll get tanks nerfed again! (Not like the last one was devastating, but it was a pain).

More serious response: The way I look at it, tanks should have medium to high AoE and/or cleave damage for maintaining aggro on big pulls. We should be below the DPS, but not drastically far below. Let's say I need to stick on Target A to interrupt that sucker, but 2 DPS are going ham on Target B, and one is on Target C. I feel I as a tank should have enough AoE damage to keep aggro on all three targets without switching away from Target A. Plus, we need to be able to quest in the overworld as well. Our single target DPS can suck and that's fine. With the threat modifier, it's not like a DPS is going to pull aggro off a tank on a boss. But I feel our AoE should be decent.

And gear and skill make a huge difference.

If a DPS of roughly the same skill and gear level can't out-DPS the tank, then we have a problem.

If a well-geared and skilled tank is out-DPSing less-geared and less-skilled players, especially on large trash packs, well, that's life.


Fair enough, and I agree for the most part.

Especially with the part about always being below DPS. To be honest if I'm pulling more DPS than a dedicated DPS class just because I have more time or am willing to dedicate more of my energy towards the game, that would probably make complete sense to most people.

I just don't see that as being positive for the community as a whole. I don't need to boast about my DPS as some in the thread are saying, but my DPS being above an actual dedicated DPS class almost seems like inherently making him feel bad, because that is his core job and it's just part of mine.

In response to ilvl comments:

Yes we already know and I stated in the OP that ilvl and skill has a drastic effect on this subject. The focus of the topic is the ability for a tank with a much higher ilvl and skill to out-DPS a class that is intended primarily to do DPS.
Wish I had those gloves. I'm hoping to get lucky.
11/08/2016 11:15 AMPosted by Motav
Wish I had those gloves. I'm hoping to get lucky.


Good luck to you!

Mine dropped from Mrklklkl in Highmountain. It was an interesting moment, getting them from a murloc.
I think tanks are a little ridiculous in some ways. I've got a prot warrior alt and when I take him out questing he is pretty much immortal. I honestly haven't been able to find enough mobs to take on at one time that will put a dent in his health. Those falcosuars come to mind, I can round up a all of elites and a dozen of the small ones and just aoe them without breaking a sweat.
OP you should see prot pally DPS lol, their damage can actually come close to mine sometimes but to be fair that is only in dungeons, you wont ever see a tank doing more damage than a dps in a raid unless the dps died in the fight
OP you should see prot pally DPS lol, their damage can actually come close to mine sometimes but to be fair that is only in dungeons, you wont ever see a tank doing more damage than a dps in a raid unless the dps died in the fight,OP you should see prot pally DPS lol, their damage can actually come close to mine sometimes but to be fair that is only in dungeons, you wont ever see a tank doing more damage than a dps in a raid unless the dps died in the fight

11/08/2016 11:19 AMPosted by Skettles
I think tanks are a little ridiculous in some ways. I've got a prot warrior alt and when I take him out questing he is pretty much immortal. I honestly haven't been able to find enough mobs to take on at one time that will put a dent in his health. Those falcosuars come to mind, I can round up a all of elites and a dozen of the small ones and just aoe them without breaking a sweat.


Have you introduced your tank friend to the elite caster mobs in the noble district of suramar? Those guys can destroy any tank without a healer
Listen, there has to be a point where item level causes a tank to do more damage than a DPS. There just has to, if picking a tank spec means that you never do more damage than a fresh 110 DPS then questing as a tank will take an eternity.
Yes we already know and I stated in the OP that ilvl and skill has a drastic effect on this subject. The focus of the topic is the ability for a tank with a much higher ilvl and skill to out-DPS a class that is intended primarily to do DPS.

You've answered your own question. A tank 50 ilvls above a dps class/spec runs a high chance of out dpsing them, period. Do you want tanks nerfed, or all dps buffed? Or both? So far you've only acted like "I'm just curious as to why I'm out dpsing others" (looks like thinly veiled gloating to me), but you haven't offered any solutions or ideas about it yourself.

We aren't going to say "because you're the best and all dps'ers are n00bs". If you're here for ego inflation, you're in the wrong place.

Edit; Down vote reason? You have stated that you understand the ilvl gap will eventually cause this due to stat scaling (higher agi/str/int and higher important secondaries = higher dmg output), but for some reason can't grasp that this fact answers your question.
11/08/2016 11:25 AMPosted by Cozzene
Yes we already know and I stated in the OP that ilvl and skill has a drastic effect on this subject. The focus of the topic is the ability for a tank with a much higher ilvl and skill to out-DPS a class that is intended primarily to do DPS.

You've answered your own question. A tank 50 ilvls above a dps class/spec runs a high chance of out dpsing them, period. Do you want tanks nerfed, or all dps buffed? Or both? So far you've only acted like "I'm just curious as to why I'm out dpsing others" (looks like thinly veiled gloating to me), but you haven't offered any solutions or ideas about it yourself.

We aren't going to say "because you're the best and all dps'ers are n00bs". If you're here for ego inflation, you're in the wrong place.


This is a really negative post. I won't really respond to in depth for that reason, but I will tell you this:

There have been several constructive posts pointing out anecdotal reasoning for why this may be happening other than just 'OMG ITS YOUR ILVL'. It's not about my ego, so stop making it about yours.

11/08/2016 11:25 AMPosted by Ankha
Listen, there has to be a point where item level causes a tank to do more damage than a DPS. There just has to, if picking a tank spec means that you never do more damage than a fresh 110 DPS then questing as a tank will take an eternity.


I find this to be conflicting because as someone else pointed out: we are pretty much immortal when it comes to world quests. Even when I was sub 830 ilvl, I would pull as much as I possibly could and aoe it down fast without really ever risking dying. So which should it be?

As a tank who is primarily intended to take damage as opposed to dealing it, I am perfectly okay with the incentive of switching to a DPS spec for leveling. That is an organic choice that actually gets me to play a different spec and try other parts of the game. Seems fine.

Negative posters: PLEASE go to a political thread if you don't want to address the topic at hand, or take notes from the people who have already done so.
It's not about my ego


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11/08/2016 11:24 AMPosted by Sandbourgh
OP you should see prot pally DPS lol, their damage can actually come close to mine sometimes but to be fair that is only in dungeons, you wont ever see a tank doing more damage than a dps in a raid unless the dps died in the fight,OP you should see prot pally DPS lol, their damage can actually come close to mine sometimes but to be fair that is only in dungeons, you wont ever see a tank doing more damage than a dps in a raid unless the dps died in the fight

11/08/2016 11:19 AMPosted by Skettles
I think tanks are a little ridiculous in some ways. I've got a prot warrior alt and when I take him out questing he is pretty much immortal. I honestly haven't been able to find enough mobs to take on at one time that will put a dent in his health. Those falcosuars come to mind, I can round up a all of elites and a dozen of the small ones and just aoe them without breaking a sweat.


Have you introduced your tank friend to the elite caster mobs in the noble district of suramar? Those guys can destroy any tank without a healer


Not if you're a prot warrior with the spell reflect trait. That on top of victory rush (made more effective by popping last stand) and BAM you're back to nearly full hp and surrounded by a bunch of half dead mobs.
OP you should see prot pally DPS lol, their damage can actually come close to mine sometimes but to be fair that is only in dungeons, you wont ever see a tank doing more damage than a dps in a raid unless the dps died in the fight,OP you should see prot pally DPS lol, their damage can actually come close to mine sometimes but to be fair that is only in dungeons, you wont ever see a tank doing more damage than a dps in a raid unless the dps died in the fight

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Have you introduced your tank friend to the elite caster mobs in the noble district of suramar? Those guys can destroy any tank without a healer


Not if you're a prot warrior with the spell reflect trait. That on top of victory rush (made more effective by popping last stand) and BAM you're back to nearly full hp and surrounded by a bunch of half dead mobs.


This is true: at the end of the day there are many world quests involving quest loot (such as the one where you have to free prisoners in Suramar City by killing Scions) where I can literally pull every single mob of that one particular type, kill them all without dropping below 75% hp, get way more of the quest item than I need, screw everyone else who comes to do this quest before these mobs respawn, complete the quest, and move on. That just seems broken to me.

But I will also say that completing quests in a reasonable time frame seems like the lesser reason for this new system where tanks can outscale DPS classes in the DPS category: as any class has a DPS spec they can switch to at any time if they want to quest faster.
Repost when you can burst 2 mil and single target 350k.
I out DPS DPSers all the time too.
It's called tanks hitting the mobs first, having the most DPS uptime and constantly AOEing.
The question comes down to what classes. Take Shadow Priests or Boomkin for instance. If you are doing Mythic+ with them the mobs could be dying too fast to get a good rotation going and ramp up their damage. That is if we are talking trash that is. On a boss that is a different story and it could be the whole gearing thing that you are claiming in your initial post. Some classes scale very well with certain stats. From my experience if you are not gearing your character correctly with some classes you end up gimping yourself on DPS. Take my class Shadow Priest, one I play mainly, if I were to grab higher iLevel gear to just try to inch it higher, but that gear had say Master and Versatility on it (depending on the amounts) it could be holding me back dps wise.

Second issue is if the player cares enough to even play at their fullest. From raiding experience your mood as a player plays a huge affect on how well you will perform in a dungeon or raid. It isn't skill always the issue. It is if you are caring enough to play at your fullest or just want to get through the instance and be done with it feeling it is a cake walk and you don't have to play at your fullest.

As for feedback I didn't up or down vote you as though some may take it as a negative question I think it is worth asking and really doesn't need vote up or down.
Aoe used to be a thing for most classes. Now it has been watered down and basically meaningless dps. Whereas most tanks have lots of Aoe to help maintain agro on lots of large groups. Blizz decided that mass aoeing instance mobs was not fun so they have made it so you have to have some crazy rotation to be effective as a dps in aoe rotations. Its annoying. It often means that tanks also out perform most dps classes during non boss phases.
220k single target?

What are you using to judge this? A boss fight? Did you have heroism?

I mean I'll pull a cool 180k on average single target, 220k seems crazy.
You must be in raids/ dungeons with warlocks.

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