What you Want + Class Options: Race

General Discussion
We now have the Worgen, so where are my Cat People?
11/25/2016 04:34 PMPosted by Finmaril
We now have the Worgen, so where are my Cat People?

Put a muzzle on it.
High Elf - Idc about classes, I'm just fond of their softer look compared to blood elves, the lighter skin color and blue eyes just looks better imo.
11/25/2016 03:17 PMPosted by Lindeyna
So what new races do you want? And what class options do you want them to have?

Alliance: Naga
Classes: Demon hunter, Hunter, Mage, Rouge, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior.

Horde: Ogres
Classes: Death knight, Hunter, Mage, Monk, Rogue, Warlock, Warrior.
the broken.
Naga for Alliance, Ogres for Horde
11/26/2016 12:59 PMPosted by Rhylani
Naga for Alliance, Ogres for Horde

I want Naga for the Alliance because if the Horde gets a race that can breathe underwater, why can't we?
Ogres (Horde):
Warrior, Shaman, Death Knight, Mage, Warlock, Priest, Hunter, Monk.

Naga (Neutral):
Warrior, Priest, Death Knight, Mage, Warlock, Hunter, Rogue, Demon Hunter.

Vrykul (Alliance):
Warrior, Priest, Paladin, Death Knight, Hunter, Warlock, Shaman, Monk.

High Elf (Alliance):
Warrior, Priest, Paladin, Death Knight, Hunter, Mage, Monk, Demon Hunter, Rogue.

And whatever special type of breed Genn Greymane's worgen is.
Remove racial abilities.

Let players use whatever character model they want.

Develop game lore without needing to focus on particular races' stories.

mogu shaman pls
Tauren rogues...because why not

Also, renegade Sargerai as Demon Hunters and Warlocks

    1. Why Ogres?
    2. Why Now?
    3. Why Not Something Else?
    4. Possible Classes
    5. The Two Headed Ogre Dilemma
    A-More than just a Gimmick, Overcoming Disabilities
    6. Possible Racial Traits
    7. Possible Racial Emotes
    8. The Size of Ogres
    9. Ogre Mount Solution(s)
    10. Neat Ogre Facts
    11. Q & A
    12. Conclusion

1. Why should Horde have Ogres?
The answer is simple, there is rather large history of their cohabitation.

Ogres and their lore have been a part of the Horde since before the first war and have been involved as recently as the Legion Invasion.

You might be surprised to find out Ogres were originally recruited into the Horde by Blackhand in exchange for Shelter from their Gronn Masters. They participated in the war against the Draenei and were even involved in the infamous assault on Shattrath.

Despite their use before the first war they were not used for the War on Stormwind.

During the Second War Ogres were used widely in the Horde as enforcers, keeping infighting between the clans to a minimum.

Following the Horde's defeat during the second War most Ogres went their separate ways, settling in different location all over Azeroth.

Skipping ahead quite a bit here...but this next part is very important.

There are still Ogre clans that are a part of the Horde.
    Dunemaul — Found in Tanaris. Recruited into the Horde by Megs Dreadshredder.
    Mok'Nathal clan — A clan consisting mostly of half-ogres, found mainly in Blade's Edge Mountains. Led by Leoroxx.
    Stonemaul clan — Found in Feralas and Dustwallow Marsh. Recruited into the Horde after Rexxar killed their former chieftain, Kor'gall.

2. Why Now?
To be blunt it's overdue. Take into consideration other races that were added to the game that have little to no pre-existing Lore behind them that were thrust into the game.

Blood Elves, Worgen and Pandaren. Certainly Blood Elves have lore as High Elves but that was certainly a curve-ball that was thrown our way with their allegiance suddenly shifting to the Horde.

The move certainly made more sense logistically than lore-wise, and despite groans from many (including myself) were accepted due to the reasoning behind it.

Goblins are the only race that has been introduced since the original launch of the game that made sense from a lore perspective.

3. Why Not Something Else?

Besides the previously mentioned lore reasons the answer is logistics.

Ogres are not the most popular choice. This is actually important. If a new race was placed on solely one faction (say a new species of Elves) this could throw off a very delicate Horde to Alliance ratio. Similar to how Blizzard brought some sort of balance to the factions with Blood Elves the opposite could be done by the implementation of a more popular race.

As it stands I would not expect to see masses of Alliance come flocking to Horde just to play an Ogre. Ogres are a traditional "Horde" race and the majority of players that would be attracted to this are probably already Horde.

To proactively counter some common arguments the coincide with this I'll list a few other common suggestions/complaints and address them.

    Argument-Horde Have Bad Posture, Transmog doesn't look good.
    Counter-Ogres have great Posture. They are not hunched over.

    Argument-Subraces fit as well!
    Counter-They certainly do, however when developing new content that could attract brand new players, sub-races of pre-existing races are just not exciting to new players, not as much as a brand new race. Subraces are cool because we know what a Dark Iron Dwarf is. To most outside the current playerbase it just looks like a dark skinned dwarf...or may even be misconstrued as a Duergar type of race, and the distinctions between the two are certainly note-worthy.

    Argument-I want _____ race! They look super-cool!
    Counter-I agree that many races look cool. Some just dont fit for lore reasons, some just make no sense based on the race itself. Two common examples...Murlocs and Arakkoa. I've actually seen these pop up from several people in the past. Murlocs simply do not have the ability to communicate effectively. Arakkoa are dedicated to Old Gods. One wouldn't fit due to their current lore...the other is the equivalent to wanting to play a...well a lesser race.

4. Possible Classes
Priest (primarily shadow, much like Forsaken lore)

I cannot recall and Ogre Deathknight, and it certainly wouldn't work with the Two-Headed Ogre part I have described in the next chapter.

Monks are a possibility, but it seems fundamentally difficult for an Ogre to try and learn "balance"

5. The Possibility of Two Heads
Since Gul'dan helped develop what we now know as the common Two Headed Ogres at the Altar of Storms it brings upon us the possibility for some really interesting options for this. Will it ever come to pass? Hard to say, it certainly would be challenging. Creating a two headed Ogre with a friend for long term gameplay certainly sounds fun, but having to rely on that individual to play your character is a huge hindrance. Coming up with a solution around it could be tricky, but I think I found one.

Each player makes their own Ogre, that Ogre can be played separately and independently just like any other player.

A racial trait is to combine together giving the individual an amplified size (aesthetic purposes only). The player who initiates the trail gains the movement ability and the second player gains amplified damage but loses control of movement. In addition the combined Ogre gains the armor and mitigation of the movement controlling player and combined life of both players. Combined Ogres would take increased damage from PvP targets (still mitigated by the controlling Ogres stats)

You cannot combine on any Ogre without selecting Accept, similar to a trade. Once in combat you cannot combine or separate from the Ogre you combined with.

The biggest issue I can see with it is people stacking Ogres for the increased damage, so limiting the amount you could have in say a raid would almost be required.

This could have amazing gameplay options from everything from PvE to PvP, and of course it's optional. The downside of it is also simple, if one messes up, you both suffer. (dont stand in fire)

A- More than just a gimmick, overcoming Disabilties

The inspiration behind this racial ability came from two sources, Cho'gall from Heroes of the Storm and two real-life friends of mine with physical disabilities.

Over the years in the guild I'm a part of there have been many opportunities for all of our players to advance in content, PvE and PvP. These opportunities have been limited by my friends personal disabilities. Having to move constantly during fights and balance a rotation can be difficult (not impossible) when you literally have less to work with.

Playing Cho'Gall (on Heroes of the Storm) with my friend that had the strokes allows us to succeed doing things together we otherwise would struggle to do. If Blizzard can make something work there, I'm confident they could do the same here.

I realized this could give those players a chance to participate in content otherwise near impossible by relying on someone else. My friends (one of which has only one arm and the other has suffered from two strokes at a young age) could focus solely on their rotations. Since this option would have little to no bearing on what the movement controlling Ogre can and cannot do that player would not feel as though they are carrying anyone else. (no pun intended).

I do not have an answer as to how Alliance could have something similar. I'm certain that the developers at Blizzard could find something similar to balance this out.

In the end I see this as being something more than just a gimmick. It would be an opportunity for some people. It's something I genuinely hope gets read and considered by someone there at Blizzard.

6. Possible Racial Traits

Keep in mind I dont expect nor desire all of these, just ideas to throw around.

Alter of Storms - Mystically combines the Ogre with another Ogre to create the 2 Headed Ogre (read my 2 Headed Ogre part for more)
Hurl Boulder - Hurls a Boulder at the target, dealing XXX damage.
Tough Skin - Ogres thick skin reduced damage taken by melee by __%
Bonk - Sock puny target in the head, stunning it for 2 seconds.
Heavy Handed - Ogres increased strength improved their melee weapon damage by __%

7. Possible Emotes

Male Dance-The Chris Farley Dance is pretty iconic at this point. Would not change, perhaps add a bit more to it.

Female Dance- "All about that Bass" by Megan Trainor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PCkvCPvDXk

Two Headed Dance Would involve both sides doing something separate, quite possibly starting a fight between the heads.

8. The Size of Ogres.

There is a great variety in the ogre species. Ogres average between 6 feet and 7 feet in height at adulthood, but continue to grow two inches to a foot at a time through a portion of their lives, as well as continuing to put on weight. A fully grown ogre would be between 8 feet and 25 feet; the average for the larger ogres is 15 feet, though some ogres are small, barely larger than 6 or 7 feet.

Source for that information is from the Horde Player's Guide.


The closest comparison to Ogre height is Tauren. According to the World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade game manual, tauren females are 6.5 feet and males are 8 feet tall. However, according to Blizzard's internal bible, females are 9 feet and males are 10 feet tall on average.

What this means is Ogres could be sized exactly like Tauren and still be within current parameters of the game AND lore.

This is not something that could be adjusted to fit into the game...it's currently already there. For an example I'm sure many of you have participated in the Legion Violet Hold 5 man. During the instance you will encounter Shadow Council Warlocks, minor Ogres that run out of the portal.

These Ogres are the currently the exact same size of Tauren.

9. Possible Ogre Mount Solution(s)

Many people are concerned with an Ogres Mount size and how it could interfere with the environment due to its overall size.

First off, as described in the size portion of the thread Ogres (and their mounts) do not necessarily have to be as large as you think. It would not be uncommon to be roughly the size of a Tauren.

However another solution to the problem would be the Cho'Gall solution from HoT's. Have the Ogre carry a slightly smaller version of the mount at an increased run speed.

Certainly this would take up less space overall, especially at the ground level (where most people are concerned). The problem with this solution is the amount of work the devs would have to put into animating all the mounts to be carried. I'm not developer so I dont know if this is an easy fix or a hard one, but it would certainly take more time than any other race mount.

At the end of the day it really boils down to not all Ogres being as large as what some people assess them to be.

10. Neat Things about Ogres

There is actually a possible foreshadowing of more Ogres finally joining the Horde. On your way to the Broken Shore (as Horde). With the "Largest Legion Invasion" ever to occur on Azeroth (as per Blizzard) taking place a lone Ogre that is not currently a part of any allied Ogre faction has come to join in the Assault on the Broken Shore. Offering himself to the service of the Horde.

Ogres are seen as stupid, however they are quite crafty and have a great deal of knowledge about things that surprise people. For example Ogres take great pride in knowing their lands. They know every cave, knook and cranny in an area that they live. This is what would lead to Ogre Hunters.

Gul'dan did not create two-headed Ogres! He just made them much more common. Natural cases of two-headed Ogres did occur very rarely before the Altar of Storms.

11. Questions&Answers
But Rickflairwoo...what would the females look like?

Probably like male Ogres, with hair and bewbs. Here is an example.

But Rickflairwoo, I want another pretty race!

Already previously addressed. Willing to contest in a meaningful debate with anyone who wishes to bring up valid arguments to this.

But Rickflairwoo, Orcs hate Ogres!

While it's true that Orcs and Ogres battled for many years before the Horde developed as we know it, and the Ogres even joined the Horde under dubious circumstances, they still joined, and are still a part of the Horde. Orcs have also come very far in their perspective on other races since their time on Draenor.

But Rickflairwoo, what race would Alliance get?

This is actually a great question. Nothing fits on Alliance side as much as Ogres fit on Horde, Lore-wise anyways. My personal preference would be Naga. While they are currently aligned to the Old Gods, I think next xpac is going to have an Old God theme based on some info we have gotten so far from this xpac. There could certainly be a renegade branch of Naga that join in revolt.

This however is probably best left to it's own thread.

12. In conclusion...
Metzen himself had said they (Blizzard developers) toyed with the idea of introducing Ogres during Cataclysm. Everyone knows that Ogres belong here, even if they are not the most popular race.
11/25/2016 04:38 PMPosted by Ryumaru
11/25/2016 04:34 PMPosted by Finmaril
We now have the Worgen, so where are my Cat People?

Put a muzzle on it.

Good idea, sir!
Blood elf druid and night elf lock or draenei lock

If i really want to stretch a new race then a playable Murloc! A cute Murloc in some plate armor <3
11/26/2016 03:05 PMPosted by Valdamer
11/25/2016 04:38 PMPosted by Ryumaru

Put a muzzle on it.

Good idea, sir!

I didn't mean the cat.
None. We already have 13 races in this game, and most of them already struggle for screen time. I'd much rather Blizzard put more focus into giving the races we already have more content instead of tossing another shiny thing on top of the heap just to let it rust like everything else after its introductory expansion is over.

Ditto for classes. I'd much rather have fourth specs than a new class.
11/25/2016 03:35 PMPosted by Aliandrin
Naga for the Horde, and Allies can have Vrykul.

Vrykul are just giant humans though. If anything they would be considered a human sub-race. Like Wildhammers for Dwarves.
If we have to add another race I'd vote for Ethereals. Both factions would get them, the divide being which Nexus-Prince you take orders from. Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Priest, Mage, Warlock.

Troll Paladins are the real priority though.
A lot of great ideas!
But I would love to see Night Elf Paladins to be honest. I mean it could possible with Night Elves being pretty close with the Naaru, and not only that there is a Night Elf that goes by the name of Delas Moonfang, she is a former priestess but is now a Night Elf Paladin! She is also affiliated with the Silver Hand? Hmmmm weird but, if it is possible for her to be a paladin, why not the player?
If we are talking new races, I would have to say the classic
Ogre for horde because it has actually been planned out before but for some reason scrapped. Ogre classes would include: Shaman, Mage, Warrior, Warlock, Death Knight, Hunter and Priest. Maybe more but I think all of them seem really valid.

Alliance to be honest I am not sure, but maybe a High Elf, I don't see why not I mean maybe there were survivors after the war of the ancients hit, and they are all in hide away. The class combos would be pretty much the same as a blood elf or Night elf.

But then again why not another Neutral faction race? Maybe a Vyrkul? Hmmm anyway...

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