Too many quest chains behind mythic dungeons

General Discussion
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12/05/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Nyzer
It wouldn't be "the hardest content" in its category after nerfs. It'd be a weak, watered-down version of what it had been.


Again, what are you talking about? this has nothing to do with what was being discussed....

I did not claim anything about anything being the hardest content, you were trying to say that the best rewards come from queable content.

12/05/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Nyzer
If you're going to say "so what if it is nerfed" you're deliberately ignoring the fact that a large number of players don't find zergfest dungeons fun. Hell, most forum posts I read were excited when we heard that heroics would require CC again after Wrath.


Not ignoring anything, just pointing out that nerfs happen to all levels/types of content , they are not restricted to one level.

12/05/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Nyzer
you implied that you get the best rewards from doing these, and that is not true.

I get 800 gold, runes, and a good pile of AP for doing satchel heroics. I'd get none of that by walking into those same heroics.


Ok? we know you get satchels.

12/05/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Nyzer
No, queued heroics don't offer better rewards than walk-in mythics. Queued mythics would, though. Making it disingenuous to say "hurr durr, you can use the group finder just fine, nothing would change". Blizzard would be actively trying to bribe me to go do the random queue.


Who is asking for queued mythics? not me, and none of those things are game breaking , it's the gear that is real carrot, esp since they took mounts out of satchels:O(

And no nothing would change, you would still get the same gear , but I personally am not bothered by Mythics not being in LFD.

12/05/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Nyzer
Which is, frankly, the exact problem you seem to have with mythic only quests. "But, it's giving all the best quest rewards! It's so unfair that Blizzard is trying to shove us away from queues!"


Well people don't like to feel like they are missing out on things, and again I have no problem with mythic only quests, or them giving the best rewards.

12/05/2016 07:08 PMPosted by Nyzer
The only fundamental difference is that the pro-queue side opposes that design because they claim it's impossible to do the content, while the anti-queue side opposes that design because they're sick to death of watching the "who cares" queue mentality suck the life out of any remotely challenging content.


Well it can make it more difficult to do some content with no auto matchmaking, but not impossible.

Your problem is being so negative against people who you view as not being on your side, the way they want to play and enjoy the game is just as valid as yours.

The 'challenging' content is still there, making Heroic versions of the current Mythic only places is likely as far as Blizzard will go, so you can still get all the 'life' out of your content you like and everyone else can still their 'life'.

Eh, it's a little thing, but it makes it a bit more immersive.


To you maybe, but immersion is subjective.

certainly welcomed it back in WoD when we had almost no reason to ever leave our damned garrisons.


It's funny, because all along we have had a call for 'player housing' and we get a version of it and most people seemed to hate it,lol.

My point, though, is that if we were just going to get queues for everything, Blizzard wouldn't even bother implementing entrances and meeting stones. It'd just be "poof" and you're at the dungeon.


Oh no, i would not like that either, but I doubt that would ever happen.

Posted by Studmuffyn
He might be thinking he needs them to complete the Suramar part without knowing about the rep gating and pre-reqs that go on in Revered with Nightfallen.

Yeah, but... why? I don't know what would make anyone think the Illidan questline is tied to the Nightfallen or to Pathfinder.


Well up until that point in revered you keep getting quests, then all of sudden unless you have unlocked all the leylines AND gotten to 6k revered you stop getting quests, well you get offered some but it is 3 Mythic dungeon quests, and if you did not know they were not part of the achievement you could think that they were required.

Not sure why someone would think Illidan was tied to Pathfinder either as we get all of those quests in our Class halls anyway.
Not ignoring anything, just pointing out that nerfs happen to all levels/types of content , they are not restricted to one level.


Queue'd content receives both more nerfs and more severe nerfs.

Do I have to quote the Nazgrim stuff at you again Stud ? You made this same argument before and it was defeated with Nazgrim before.

You really want to go there again ? You lost that particular argument. I can see however that you can't seem to let it go.

12/05/2016 07:50 PMPosted by Studmuffyn
Well up until that point in revered you keep getting quests, then all of sudden unless you have unlocked all the leylines AND gotten to 6k revered you stop getting quests


The leylines you actually get a quest for. You don't have to guess at it.
Take out quests that lead people into them who would never set foot in them otherwise.

If quests are kept in, make it LFG so people do not have a road block to fight against just to progress is a quest chain they WERE doing up till that point.

If anything gets dumbed down..have it in LFR/LFG only. Surely hardcore players who clearly hate it won't care cause they will never go in there, and other people who just want to go in there for something that ISN'T the urge to run it for the sake of running it, can get it done.

Having the options for people to play the game as they'd like is good. And it should have NO effect on how another person wishes to play.

MANY MANY people do not raid or enjoy dungeons. So the game offers other things for those players to do instead. Like professions. Pet battles. Etc. Shoe horning those things into other parts of the game only hurts the game play of the players who never enjoyed it. And they are the ones speaking out.

I enjoy questing. I enjoy a story that takes me from point to point so I can finish something. Dungeons and raids are there to gear up your toon in order to do end game raids. WHY do I have to go in one just to finish a leather working quest? That has nothing to do with raiding. The headache I have to put up with just to get something as simple as finishing a professions quest, is just not worth it. It turns me OFF and causes me to lose insterest. Which means I stop playing and my money every month ends.

The group finder is easier because you hit one button and can go about doing some other things while the game finds the group for you. There is zero discrimination done by humans. Trying to pug means you have to sit there and spend all your time trying to get INTO a group. Or if you make one, have to spend time being in control of how things are going to go. Man I don't CARE!! All I want is to get thru the stupid thing so I can get my dumb scale/pattern and get the f out so I can continue on with professions. I want NOTHING what so ever to do with the stupid place. And if those quests weren't requiring it of me, I wouldn't go in there UNLESS I was ready to progress in gearing up to raid. THAT should be the point of them. And that used to be the point of them.

12/05/2016 01:21 PMPosted by Berith
12/05/2016 01:01 PMPosted by Zezeall
I have 60 of those things haha cannot wait till 80.... oh what is next...


All in all, I probably have closer to 600 than 60. Damn weekly cap.


Oh shut up. No one cares about how good you are at this game but you. Every single post you make is about how GREAT you are as a player and how EVERYONE ELSE who does not copy the way you play the game, deserves NOTHING. Having zero sympathy for players who have started the game later then launch day, is a perfect example of this. You are the PERFECT example of why the words "toxic elitists" exist. Your life's worth is wrapped up in a stupid video game and your need to pimp yourself out all over the forums is the perfect example of this. Get over yourself already. I don't even read half the stuff you post anymore becuase your opinion is based on the idea that this game HAS to be played YOUR way and no other. You are a selfish individual who doesn't even have the emotional understanding to be able to see another person's point of view because "How Can anyone ever have another point of view different from mine? They are clearly wrong if they do." You are really insufferable any time you comment.
12/05/2016 08:19 PMPosted by Andrilynn
Take out quests that lead people into them who would never set foot in them otherwise.

If quests are kept in, make it LFG so people do not have a road block to fight against just to progress is a quest chain they WERE doing up till that point.

If anything gets dumbed down..have it in LFR/LFG only. Surely hardcore players who clearly hate it won't care cause they will never go in there, and other people who just want to go in there for something that ISN'T the urge to run it for the sake of running it, can get it done.

Having the options for people to play the game as they'd like is good. And it should have NO effect on how another person wishes to play.

MANY MANY people do not raid or enjoy dungeons. So the game offers other things for those players to do instead. Like professions. Pet battles. Etc. Shoe horning those things into other parts of the game only hurts the game play of the players who never enjoyed it. And they are the ones speaking out.

I enjoy questing. I enjoy a story that takes me from point to point so I can finish something. Dungeons and raids are there to gear up your toon in order to do end game raids. WHY do I have to go in one just to finish a leather working quest? That has nothing to do with raiding. The headache I have to put up with just to get something as simple as finishing a professions quest, is just not worth it. It turns me OFF and causes me to lose insterest. Which means I stop playing and my money every month ends.

The group finder is easier because you hit one button and can go about doing some other things while the game finds the group for you. There is zero discrimination done by humans. Trying to pug means you have to sit there and spend all your time trying to get INTO a group. Or if you make one, have to spend time being in control of how things are going to go. Man I don't CARE!! All I want is to get thru the stupid thing so I can get my dumb scale/pattern and get the f out so I can continue on with professions. I want NOTHING what so ever to do with the stupid place. And if those quests weren't requiring it of me, I wouldn't go in there UNLESS I was ready to progress in gearing up to raid. THAT should be the point of them. And that used to be the point of them.

12/05/2016 01:21 PMPosted by Berith
...

All in all, I probably have closer to 600 than 60. Damn weekly cap.


Oh shut up. No one cares about how good you are at this game but you. Every single post you make is about how GREAT you are as a player and how EVERYONE ELSE who does not copy the way you play the game, deserves NOTHING. Having zero sympathy for players who have started the game later then launch day, is a perfect example of this. You are the PERFECT example of why the words "toxic elitists" exist. Your life's worth is wrapped up in a stupid video game and your need to pimp yourself out all over the forums is the perfect example of this. Get over yourself already. I don't even read half the stuff you post anymore becuase your opinion is based on the idea that this game HAS to be played YOUR way and no other. You are a selfish individual who doesn't even have the emotional understanding to be able to see another person's point of view because "How Can anyone ever have another point of view different from mine? They are clearly wrong if they do." You are really insufferable any time you comment.


Stop saying stupid irrelevant and illogical nonsense like this. What you think should be doesn't make it so. The quests require mythic and mythics shouldn't be queued because then they wouldn't really be mythic once they get nerfed.

Also, you don't "have" to do anything. But if you CHOOSE not to do it, don't then whine about the consequences of that choice. This is a 100% player created problem.
Not ignoring anything, just pointing out that nerfs happen to all levels/types of content , they are not restricted to one level.


When it comes to non-queued content, though, it's usually restricted to either when one particular boss/mechanic is overtuned compared to its counterparts, or when an instance has been out long enough that it's no longer (or almost no longer) current content.

With queued content... well, Nazgrim's the poster child for that. Healing on his encounter ended up being nerfed by an end total of 90%. I don't think we've ever had a nerf of that scale in non-queue content until an entire expansion or two later.

I did not claim anything about anything being the hardest content, you were trying to say that the best rewards come from queable content.


I said that queues come with bribes that walk-ins don't have, and that this would definitely hold true for slapping queues onto mythics. Making the argument that the group finder would work just as well with mythic queues an incorrect one.
You're trying really hard to twist what I said so that it fits your interpretation instead.

Who is asking for queued mythics?


It is being asked for in this topic.

12/05/2016 07:50 PMPosted by Studmuffyn
Your problem is being so negative against people who you view as not being on your side, the way they want to play and enjoy the game is just as valid as yours.


Except that the queued way forces content to be nerfed to adjust the mentality that comes with queues in WoW. This is the only real objection I have to it. If we can get some kind of perfect balance where we can still have queues for more difficult content without the nerfs that have always followed, great, but so far the opposite has proven true 100% of the time.

12/05/2016 07:50 PMPosted by Studmuffyn
The 'challenging' content is still there, making Heroic versions of the current Mythic only places is likely as far as Blizzard will go, so you can still get all the 'life' out of your content you like and everyone else can still their 'life'.


No problem with that.

12/05/2016 07:50 PMPosted by Studmuffyn
It's funny, because all along we have had a call for 'player housing' and we get a version of it and most people seemed to hate it,lol.


We got the "evil genie" version of player housing where almost everything was done wrong. All the features nobody asked for. Few, if any, of the features anyone did want.
12/05/2016 08:19 PMPosted by Andrilynn
MANY MANY people do not raid or enjoy dungeons. So the game offers other things for those players to do instead. Like professions. Pet battles. Etc. Shoe horning those things into other parts of the game only hurts the game play of the players who never enjoyed it. And they are the ones speaking out.


66% of 110 players have done Mythic EoA. It's trivial.

And you're acting like you can't do professions at all without mythics, which is completely false. You can't get rank ups or (currently) a single engineering helmet pattern. That doesn't stop you from doing professions by any means.

And let's be honest... if you're not going to do the main content of the game, that's fine, but you really shouldn't be surprised or offended when the game doesn't seem to be tailored to your interests after that. Because, well, it isn't.

12/05/2016 08:19 PMPosted by Andrilynn
Having the options for people to play the game as they'd like is good. And it should have NO effect on how another person wishes to play.


Some people want all the mythic raiding rewards without doing mythic raiding at all. Should there be an option for that?

Some people want a pay to win model. Should there be an option for that?

Also, "no effect"? When queues offer buffs and bribes that walk-ins don't, players are funneled into them. It wouldn't be an "option" if it had all the best bonus rewards compared to any other method of doing the exact same dungeon.
If you want to send a message to the devs just avoid all quests that involve mythic requirements. If numbers aren't up to a specific count. They will be forced to change things. Content that isn't being done is a waste of time and resources. They know this. Use this to your advantage and avoid content gated behind things you don't want to participate it.
12/05/2016 08:43 PMPosted by Sendrunna
If you want to send a message to the devs just avoid all quests that involve mythic requirements. If numbers aren't up to a specific count. They will be forced to change things. Content that isn't being done is a waste of time and resources. They know this. Use this to your advantage and avoid content gated behind things you don't want to participate it.


You do realize that the content still won't get done with many of the "solutions" people have. Even adding it to a queue will change the content.

Also, I pray that they stop caving to people with attitudes like this. You don't deserve accommodation in order to assuage your delusions of grandeur nor to solve problems that you created.
12/05/2016 09:09 PMPosted by Spy
12/05/2016 08:43 PMPosted by Sendrunna
If you want to send a message to the devs just avoid all quests that involve mythic requirements. If numbers aren't up to a specific count. They will be forced to change things. Content that isn't being done is a waste of time and resources. They know this. Use this to your advantage and avoid content gated behind things you don't want to participate it.


You do realize that the content still won't get done with many of the "solutions" people have. Even adding it to a queue will change the content.

Also, I pray that they stop caving to people with attitudes like this. You don't deserve accommodation in order to assuage your delusions of grandeur nor to solve problems that you created.


Guessing you have that "special snowflake" mentality ?
12/05/2016 09:20 PMPosted by Sendrunna
12/05/2016 09:09 PMPosted by Spy
...

You do realize that the content still won't get done with many of the "solutions" people have. Even adding it to a queue will change the content.

Also, I pray that they stop caving to people with attitudes like this. You don't deserve accommodation in order to assuage your delusions of grandeur nor to solve problems that you created.


Guessing your a "special snowflake"?


Interesting comment coming from someone who wants to boycott part of a game because she refuses to do it.
And you're acting like you can't do professions at all without mythics, which is completely false. You can't get rank ups or (currently) a single engineering helmet pattern. That doesn't stop you from doing professions by any means.


Both court of stars and Arcway have alchemy patterns.

On the other hand my druid alt has now done 3 mythic quest lines out of suramar and still can't has no new quest lines at exalted so it was not the mythic quest lines preventing progress.
12/05/2016 12:40 PMPosted by Berith

There are 3 sections on World of Wargraphs. Rankings are 2 sections that use the above metrics to filter account eligibility and the armoury crawler for achievement %.

Stop trying to misrepresent the validity of the data.

Heck Joynal, I've pointed this out to you in a thread earlier when you tried the same misinformation.

See the Global Stats section of the FAQ.

Okay I took another look.

First, the section I quoted is part of the general FAQs section. It does not state it is specific to high end PvE/PvP content. It simply states that's who they're getting information from.

Chalk it up to the site owner not being a native English speaker and doing a poor job of organizing information.

I move down to the Global Stats section as you say to do. I see:

What are global Stat ?
Global Stats are Stats about all level 110 players, not only 2200+ or 4+/7 players.

All that says is that the stats are supposed to be "about" all level 110 players, not that data was "collected from" all level 110 characters. I also find it strange that where he was saying 1800 or 2 Mythic kills in the first section, he's now changed it to say 2200 or 4 kills. Does he not remember what sample group he was targeting for PvE/PvP data?

How are computed Global Stats ?
Global Stats are computed using the methodology which is used for surveys, but on a larger amount of players, that’s why the accuracy is really good. (Look at Confidence Interval and all that stuff on Wikipedia if you want more informations…)

Now he's saying he uses survey methods, which is where a sample population is used to draw data and get results assumed to be accurate of a larger population. In this case, the sample is an unknown number that represents an unknown percentage of players with level 110 characters and that number is larger than some other unknown number (presumably the players he's gathered data from for the PvE/PvP statistics) so it's supposed to make it more accurate.

So is this larger sample a fresh sample from the entire player base (which may or may not include the same players represented in the PvE/PvP stats data), or is a combined sample of the previously drawn data on the targeted portion of the player base plus an additional unknown number of players randomly chosen? We don't know. He doesn't say exactly what this new sample is comprised of.

Chances are good it's a combined sample, and that would make the sample biased.

No, I'm not going to accept the results as accurate. I'm not going to trust information from a site that is clearly biased as being an accurate reflection of the entire player base.

This is why I'd rather see the statistics coming directly from Blizzard. Blizzard's already going to have their internal reports on actual participation among the entire player base, not merely a survey sample that may not actually completely random. Blizzard would also be able in a better position to see how many and which Mythic dungeons each player is completing overall.

If a large portion of players has only completed the 4 or 5 Mythic dungeons needed for the sake of their class order campaigns and profession quests/recipes (or possibly because they were under the impression they had to do Arcway and CoS to progress in Suramar) then not set foot inside a Mythic dungeon again, there's clearly a problem. The content is not as popular as players like you want others to believe. It's only being completed because it's an obstacle to progression in the other parts of the game the player does enjoy.

But without seeing real numbers from actual participation rates, we've got no way of knowing. All we do know is that they're going to make heroic versions of Arcway and CoS. That's something I don't think Blizzard would be doing if participation was as high as your Wargraph stats claim it is. And if those numbers have serious reason to be doubted, it throws the other numbers into doubt as well.
12/05/2016 06:09 PMPosted by Elae
Which has excluded a lot of players from the story.


Why is this a bad thing?

Not experiencing Khara, without stepping foot into Khara.

Who is asking for queued mythics? not me


Maybe it got lost in the pages then, but would you care to clarify your exact argument then?

In plain English, what is the point you are trying to make?

Nyzer is, quite clearly, against the idea of queable mythics.
If you are not asserting they should be queable, I am puzzled as to what the point of your responses is. If you don't disagree with their argument why exactly do you appear to be so firmly against it?

12/05/2016 08:19 PMPosted by Andrilynn
If quests are kept in, make it LFG so people do not have a road block to fight against just to progress is a quest chain they WERE doing up till that point.


Why can't quests lead to dungeons and what exactly is the road block?

12/05/2016 08:43 PMPosted by Sendrunna
If numbers aren't up to a specific count. They will be forced to change things.


I don't understand this reasoning.
If "enough" people don't use transmog, will they remove transmog?
If "enough" people don't pet battle, will they remove pet battles?
If "enough" people don't collect toys, will they remove toys?

None of those systems is going away based solely upon participation.
This is nonsense reasoning through and through , why would they decide anything in that manner?

By that logic, I am nearly sure, normal difficulty dungeons have fallen below all manner of participation bench marks. They hardly receive any use at all when compared to other content like LFR and Heroics.

Back to World of Wargraphs, comparing normal EoA to Heroic EoA, there is only a 15% differential. Meaning only 15% did normal EoA but not H EoA, and would be those exclusively effected by removing normal dungeons.
Is that somehow "up to count", when M EoA at 65% somehow isn't?
12/05/2016 12:40 PMPosted by Berith

There are 3 sections on World of Wargraphs. Rankings are 2 sections that use the above metrics to filter account eligibility and the armoury crawler for achievement %.

Stop trying to misrepresent the validity of the data.

Heck Joynal, I've pointed this out to you in a thread earlier when you tried the same misinformation.

See the Global Stats section of the FAQ.

Okay I took another look.

First, the section I quoted is part of the general FAQs section. It does not state it is specific to high end PvE/PvP content. It simply states that's who they're getting information from.

Chalk it up to the site owner not being a native English speaker and doing a poor job of organizing information.

I move down to the Global Stats section as you say to do. I see:

What are global Stat ?
Global Stats are Stats about all level 110 players, not only 2200+ or 4+/7 players.

All that says is that the stats are supposed to be "about" all level 110 players, not that data was "collected from" all level 110 characters. I also find it strange that where he was saying 1800 or 2 Mythic kills in the first section, he's now changed it to say 2200 or 4 kills. Does he not remember what sample group he was targeting for PvE/PvP data?

How are computed Global Stats ?
Global Stats are computed using the methodology which is used for surveys, but on a larger amount of players, that’s why the accuracy is really good. (Look at Confidence Interval and all that stuff on Wikipedia if you want more informations…)

Now he's saying he uses survey methods, which is where a sample population is used to draw data and get results assumed to be accurate of a larger population. In this case, the sample is an unknown number that represents an unknown percentage of players with level 110 characters and that number is larger than some other unknown number (presumably the players he's gathered data from for the PvE/PvP statistics) so it's supposed to make it more accurate.

So is this larger sample a fresh sample from the entire player base (which may or may not include the same players represented in the PvE/PvP stats data), or is a combined sample of the previously drawn data on the targeted portion of the player base plus an additional unknown number of players randomly chosen? We don't know. He doesn't say exactly what this new sample is comprised of.

Chances are good it's a combined sample, and that would make the sample biased.

No, I'm not going to accept the results as accurate. I'm not going to trust information from a site that is clearly biased as being an accurate reflection of the entire player base.

This is why I'd rather see the statistics coming directly from Blizzard. Blizzard's already going to have their internal reports on actual participation among the entire player base, not merely a survey sample that may not actually completely random. Blizzard would also be able in a better position to see how many and which Mythic dungeons each player is completing overall.

If a large portion of players has only completed the 4 or 5 Mythic dungeons needed for the sake of their class order campaigns and profession quests/recipes (or possibly because they were under the impression they had to do Arcway and CoS to progress in Suramar) then not set foot inside a Mythic dungeon again, there's clearly a problem. The content is not as popular as players like you want others to believe. It's only being completed because it's an obstacle to progression in the other parts of the game the player does enjoy.

But without seeing real numbers from actual participation rates, we've got no way of knowing. All we do know is that they're going to make heroic versions of Arcway and CoS. That's something I don't think Blizzard would be doing if participation was as high as your Wargraph stats claim it is. And if those numbers have serious reason to be doubted, it throws the other numbers into doubt as well.


I see someone is mad they were wrong. Let me prove you more wrong. Arcway and CoS Heroic already exist. They were available in Beta.

If there was such a big issue and rush, they would be in 7.1.5, not 7.2.

Just food for thought.

The data is good about participation. Denying reality won't get you anything. How would you know anyhow, did you even purchase Legion yet ? Enjoying your Garrison still ? You have no place to talk about Legion end game, your opinion is uninformed and tainted with negative bias.

Your agenda is showing.
12/05/2016 06:09 PMPosted by Elae
12/05/2016 06:07 PMPosted by Kwizzlix
If you can't even do normal mythic dungeons, then you don't even need to unlock Karazhan lol

Which has excluded a lot of players from the story.

No. Players have excluded themselves from the story based on some warped belief that everything in the game should be queueable and that every time they have a need, or desire, to go to a dungeon or raid they should be auto-ported into said instance or raid then auto-ported back to the exact location they were at before they went to said instance or raid.

The game doesn't exclude anyone from anything. It is presented as is and players choose to participate in whatever they want to participate in. Players are rewarded for participation in all aspects of the game. If players choose to participate in only one aspect of the game they only obtain rewards for that aspect of the game.

No one has any inherent right to all rewards, all pieces of lore/story, or all of anything else based on the fact that they purchased the game in it's original, as is, state. The entire game is laid out before you. If you want to experience everything in the game then you have to participate in everything in the game.
12/05/2016 12:40 PMPosted by Berith

There are 3 sections on World of Wargraphs. Rankings are 2 sections that use the above metrics to filter account eligibility and the armoury crawler for achievement %.

Stop trying to misrepresent the validity of the data.

Heck Joynal, I've pointed this out to you in a thread earlier when you tried the same misinformation.

See the Global Stats section of the FAQ.

Okay I took another look.

First, the section I quoted is part of the general FAQs section. It does not state it is specific to high end PvE/PvP content. It simply states that's who they're getting information from.

Chalk it up to the site owner not being a native English speaker and doing a poor job of organizing information.

I move down to the Global Stats section as you say to do. I see:

What are global Stat ?
Global Stats are Stats about all level 110 players, not only 2200+ or 4+/7 players.

All that says is that the stats are supposed to be "about" all level 110 players, not that data was "collected from" all level 110 characters. I also find it strange that where he was saying 1800 or 2 Mythic kills in the first section, he's now changed it to say 2200 or 4 kills. Does he not remember what sample group he was targeting for PvE/PvP data?

How are computed Global Stats ?
Global Stats are computed using the methodology which is used for surveys, but on a larger amount of players, that’s why the accuracy is really good. (Look at Confidence Interval and all that stuff on Wikipedia if you want more informations…)

Now he's saying he uses survey methods, which is where a sample population is used to draw data and get results assumed to be accurate of a larger population. In this case, the sample is an unknown number that represents an unknown percentage of players with level 110 characters and that number is larger than some other unknown number (presumably the players he's gathered data from for the PvE/PvP statistics) so it's supposed to make it more accurate.

So is this larger sample a fresh sample from the entire player base (which may or may not include the same players represented in the PvE/PvP stats data), or is a combined sample of the previously drawn data on the targeted portion of the player base plus an additional unknown number of players randomly chosen? We don't know. He doesn't say exactly what this new sample is comprised of.

Chances are good it's a combined sample, and that would make the sample biased.

No, I'm not going to accept the results as accurate. I'm not going to trust information from a site that is clearly biased as being an accurate reflection of the entire player base.

This is why I'd rather see the statistics coming directly from Blizzard. Blizzard's already going to have their internal reports on actual participation among the entire player base, not merely a survey sample that may not actually completely random. Blizzard would also be able in a better position to see how many and which Mythic dungeons each player is completing overall.

If a large portion of players has only completed the 4 or 5 Mythic dungeons needed for the sake of their class order campaigns and profession quests/recipes (or possibly because they were under the impression they had to do Arcway and CoS to progress in Suramar) then not set foot inside a Mythic dungeon again, there's clearly a problem. The content is not as popular as players like you want others to believe. It's only being completed because it's an obstacle to progression in the other parts of the game the player does enjoy.

But without seeing real numbers from actual participation rates, we've got no way of knowing. All we do know is that they're going to make heroic versions of Arcway and CoS. That's something I don't think Blizzard would be doing if participation was as high as your Wargraph stats claim it is. And if those numbers have serious reason to be doubted, it throws the other numbers into doubt as well.


I'm not sure why so many get so hung up on participation. Not everyone needs to do everything all the time in order for it to be a valid part of the game.

Also, "It's only being completed because it's an obstacle to progression in the other parts of the game the player does enjoy." has to be the the most ignorant statement I've heard in some time. You do realize, he asked himself knowingly, that you just defined virtually every single thing you do in this game, right?

You keep thumping that chest...
Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Oh Lord, kumbayah
Someone's sleeping, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's sleeping, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Someone's dreaming, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's dreaming, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's dreaming, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbayah
Someone's crying, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's crying, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing, my Lord, kumbaya
Someone's singing, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya
Come by here, my Lord, kumbaya
Come by here, my Lord, kumbaya
Come by here, my Lord, kumbaya
Oh Lord, kumbaya

Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Kumbayah my Lord, kumbayah
Oh Lord, kumbayah

/Moo
12/05/2016 09:20 PMPosted by Sendrunna
Guessing you have that "special snowflake" mentality ?

Him, Berith, Verbatim, Nyzer, anyone against Mythics being in LFD.

It's a mental disorder, I'd think.

(They are also stalkers and have bordered on harassment and threatening. Need to go back and report all their posts against me.)
12/06/2016 06:19 AMPosted by Fillyestra
12/05/2016 09:20 PMPosted by Sendrunna
Guessing you have that "special snowflake" mentality ?

Him, Berith, Verbatim, Nyzer, anyone against Mythics being in LFD.

It's a mental disorder, I'd think.

(They are also stalkers and have bordered on harassment and threatening. Need to go back and report all their posts against me.)


Make sure to tell them that we're doing it not because you're a gigantic [EXPLETIVE] but because we're just mean "elitists".

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