What happened to 95%=baseline?

General Discussion
That's the question for you, Blizzard, what happened to what you said at Blizzcon where talents picked 95% of times would become baseline or have some functionality shifted into the baseline spec?

All that's come out of the PTR right now is a slew of nerfs and gutting of talents, flat out removing them from some specs. Why are these not instead becoming baseline and new talents put in so we can have the "choice" that you promised us talents would be this expansion?

And why are you nerfing legendaries that people never used in the first place? Like the Feign Death legendary that no one ever took if they got an actual dps out-put legendary as a Hunter.

This just makes no sense.
I think you gotta look at Blizzcon as a place where Ion goes on stage and says "Wouldn't it be cool if..." and then later tweets that they thought of something cooler, wait and find out.
I think you got to realise that this is the first 7.1.5 build....

Calm down.
11/15/2016 06:54 PMPosted by Zarvardios
I think you got to realise that this is the first 7.1.5 build....

Calm down.

I'm viewing the PTR build as more of a sandbox for Blizzard to experiment with different ideas and see how they work in practice rather than a stage upon which to present fully-thought-out changes to the community.
It's just Alpha!
It's just Beta!
It's just pre-patch!
It's just the retail release!
It's just 7.1 PTR!
It's just 7.1 release!
It's just 7.1.5 PTR!

Yeah right. Not believing a single word coming out of these developers any more.

What these various releases has proven time and time again is that the developers don't care about feedback from the community, no matter how great or constructive. They'll do as they please no matter what.

I, along with many others I am sure, had high hopes for this PTR however with today's release and their usual promise of greater things to come falling flat, the little faith I had is gone.

They should have known the player base would been going through this release with a very keen eye. What they should have done is waited until at least some of their promises was built in to the PTR.

All they had to say was, "PTR is not quite ready for release, hold on". Instead we get a half-effort of an attempt and now they will be scourged for it.
11/15/2016 07:20 PMPosted by Daenex
It's just Alpha!
It's just Beta!
It's just pre-patch!
It's just the retail release!
It's just 7.1 PTR!
It's just 7.1 release!
It's just 7.1.5 PTR!

Yeah right. Not believing a single word coming out of these developers any more.

What these various releases has proven time and time again is that the developers don't care about feedback from the community, no matter how great or constructive. They'll do as they please no matter what.

I, along with many others I am sure, had high hopes for this PTR however with today's release and their usual promise of greater things to come falling flat, the little faith I had is gone.


They really don't listen. I remember the multiple threads with hundreds of (sometimes very detailed well thought out) posts about the absolute gutting of hunters when the Legion pre-patch was on PTR, and concerns from the beta community. IIRC, it didn't even get a single blue reply.

I was just starting to get my hopes up that maybe they were listening, since they seemed to compromised on the Cheetah change at least by giving us a passive run speed talent. Then they said at Blizzcon that we'd get traps back. Yay!

But nope! 7.1.5 hits and not only are there no beneficial changes to hunters to either help with utility or our clunky rotations, but more nerfs, even to specs that were already consistently at the bottom.

And that's just one class, not even factoring in the total game changes that most people hate - like CRZ, the removal of reforging, etc.

I really am starting to get a little tin-foil hatty and thinking the devs are actively trying to kill this game so they can focus on their FTP endeavors. Either that or they are terribly arrogant and don't consider any opinions but their own. Either way they need to go.
I'll give the new patch a try. I hope that Blizzard does listen to the demon hunter community though. We only need a few tweaks and we will be solid in our raid ranks. Usually Blizzard gives us a patch cycle then tweaks it after they test numbers, so this isn't locked in. However, if I feel absolutely useless, I will just take a break from the game for awhile until things improve. We all pay 15 dollars a month, we should all be able to enjoy whatever class we are on AND be competitive.
If they actually went ahead with 95% = baseline, there'd be no talent trees left.
Hmm. Did they give a time frame for this change for the next patch, or is this another case of "They said it and I want it noooowwwwww"?
11/15/2016 06:54 PMPosted by Zarvardios
I think you got to realise that this is the first 7.1.5 build....

Calm down.


Remember that the same was said about Alpha, Beta and more in WoD and Legion?
I'm not buying that for one second. Not after what we've seen to be the case already.

The changes they are proposing - while the first iteration - is telling of the direction they're taking and that they are not listening to the community at all, not even the players who play at their peak.

Mythic raiding Brewmasters were given icy-veins rundowns of their classes during Alpha/Beta by Celestalon and even then they weren't able to reproduce his results/claims of Brewmasters secretly being the "best and most Overpowered tanks according to my spreadsheets".

Does that sound like a developer who knows what they're doing and that should be leading the design team for Classes? (the answer here is No).

11/15/2016 07:30 PMPosted by Baneus
Hmm. Did they give a time frame for this change for the next patch, or is this another case of "They said it and I want it noooowwwwww"?


Respect for you Baneus, but you're twisting the words here.

I'm not asking for the patch to be here right now, I'm asking about what happened to the proposed changes to the classes which are the complete 180 of what was said at Blizzcon.

11/15/2016 07:29 PMPosted by Ikhj
If they actually went ahead with 95% = baseline, there'd be no talent trees left.


Well, it's what was said at Blizzcon, if it was the case then they should've chosen their words better.

They said that they'd go baseline and new talents would replace them, but that's not the case here.
What strikes me is at blizzcon 2015. They stated "all talents will be of equal for said spec" Meaning you can play the way you like. That did not happen...
When they said 95% picked, they meant 95% picked after they nerfed the crap out of decent talents so it doesn't matter what you pick anymore.
Can this please get some dev attention?
11/15/2016 06:35 PMPosted by Rovus
That's the question for you, Blizzard, what happened to what you said at Blizzcon where talents picked 95% of times would become baseline or have some functionality shifted into the baseline spec?

All that's come out of the PTR right now is a slew of nerfs and gutting of talents, flat out removing them from some specs. Why are these not instead becoming baseline and new talents put in so we can have the "choice" that you promised us talents would be this expansion?

And why are you nerfing legendaries that people never used in the first place? Like the Feign Death legendary that no one ever took if they got an actual dps out-put legendary as a Hunter.

This just makes no sense.


Its datamined notes from the first PTR build, they have communicated the changes they want to make, Rome wasn't built overnight
I mean that's what they said they were considering.

Also remember the people speaking are a bunch of bumbling, inarticulate dweebs, so I wouldn't take anything they said too seriously.
11/15/2016 06:54 PMPosted by Zarvardios
I think you got to realise that this is the first 7.1.5 build....

Calm down.


If we had someone that knew class balance. I'd agree with you.

Too bad we got celetalon who I'm sure is busy protesting at a college somewhere.
If that was their plan, they'd probably apply it when they next designed classes.

Not mid expac.
11/15/2016 08:42 PMPosted by Trallara
If that was their plan, they'd probably apply it when they next designed classes.

Not mid expac.


It was their comment in the "Legion going forward" section.
So it would be expected that it would be in Legion when the changes are actually needed, not after.

11/15/2016 08:13 PMPosted by Harhain

Its datamined notes from the first PTR build, they have communicated the changes they want to make, Rome wasn't built overnight


And at first glance, they're out of whack and nowhere near what is needed.

The changes they want to make are wrong and go in the complete opposite direction of what the community wants, high-end players have been telling them the changes that need to be made but they haven't listened.

Same thing happened during Alpha, Beta, Pre-patch and 7.0. You can't blame people for seeing these and reacting badly, because they follow the precedent that Blizzard has set.
11/15/2016 09:00 PMPosted by Rovus
The changes they want to make are wrong and go in the complete opposite direction of what the community wants, high-end players have been telling them the changes that need to be made but they haven't listened.


The changes to Blood Death Knight's are better?
Improved talents and Bone Shield Mechanics like some of us asked?

Sure we aren't fixed, but it's a huge start.

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