Please make the game more Alt Friendly.

General Discussion
1 2 3 8 Next
The game is very Alt unfriendly at the moment, and it makes me feel like i have a lot of toons i will never get to play again.

I just think with some small tweaks or changes i could play any of my 5 paladins i want at any time and have them be relatively close and not so far off in capability. In particular what i would like to see:

1. Trickling in Hall resources and/or quests for followers to do for those resources like in WoD.
2. The speed of the catch up AK needs to be acknowledged and improved (i read somewhere they are making changes in an upcoming patch that alts will start out at level 10 AK so props for that if it happens).
3. Open the order hall armor for the class to purchase if you have already leveled 1 of that class, it is unrealistic to get that "starter" armor by farming it every time you re-level the class.
4. Purchasable (made by one of the professions like inscription or archaeology or whatever) scripts for AP or make the drops like the Brief History of Aeons not be soulbound. Or something like making one from my main be account wide so if i get one that has 12k AP i can send it to my alts for that fast catch up mechanic.

Anything else other folks with a lot of alts can think of that might help.

In short make it easier for "mains" to help or account wide items to help get alts up to speed more quickly and be useful so i don't feel like i am locked into playing my main forever because my other toons are so far behind.

Thanks for listening if you made it this far.
Its not that alts are starting off with AK 10, its the first 10 ranks are going to be instant learn instead of waiting. So you still need the resources to get this open (5000 is easy to come by while leveling so no real problem here)

Another thing I would do is make all the suramar rep unlocks account wide. Lets say your main is exalted with the nightfallen and has all the main suramar chapters complete. Make it so alts don't need to grind rep to unlock each section.

As for hall resources, you can buy resource cacehes that are bind to account. 1 blood of sargeras = 200 resources. So its something.
11/22/2016 01:51 AMPosted by Bayon
As for hall resources, you can buy resource cacehes that are bind to account. 1 blood of sargeras = 200 resources. So its something.


Silly me i did not know this but i found it now, and yes it is something that helps. I am not sure how much (as i have 40+ level 100's to level) but it does help indeed. Thank you for this information.
That nightfallen rep grind makes finding a class you can tolerate suck.
i have to ask, to you what is a reasonable amount of time to catch up an alt?

because my fresh alts to 110 are getting research in in under 3 days, I'm averaging 20 mins of playtime on my alts a day and 2 of them are raid ready. my warlock is my newest alt to max level and is above 830 with less than 3 hours played @ max level. my hunter and demon hunter alts are both on artifact knowledge 15. my monk is getting AK 17 in 1.5 days. my monk here is 120k AP away from rank 34 on its weapon ( with rank 24 in Brew and 19 in Mistweaver ).

what realistically are people expecting of there alts playtime? to be instant 870+ within 5 hours of 110? my hunter and my demon hunter are both on there final points to get there third golden dragons with less than a day played @ max level. my warlock is on its AP to get its second golden dragon.

I'm honestly curious. because this xpack seems to be the absolute easiest xpack for alts. when you have 1 toon with maxed reps, all of your class hall rep tokens become account bound. I'm feeding mine into my hunter who is approaching exalted with a lot of the factions soon. then I will have 2 toons to feed rep tokens into the next alt, and on and on it goes to get faster and faster to rep alts up.

this argument of " this xpack is ultra alt unfriendly " makes absolutely 0 sense to me. the trick to getting your weapons up is wait a couple days for your AK to come in before trying to farm AP. any early farming of AP is a waste of time, just be patient for the AK to ramp up then go and blitz out there weapons. spend an hour every couple days to knock out a heap of caches and your explode your weapons up in ranks. its so effortless and fast.
I'm sitting at < 840 on my main spec because wq gear is all wrong stats.

Game wants me tanking I swear. I have two already, jeez.

Rep grinds are not alt friendly, and nightfallen being the heavy focus and taking a damn month or more to knock out is awful.
#3 is actually a really legit idea. That class armor is practically worthless anyway. By the time I unlocked it on my 3 toons it was all already irrelevant and I couldn't use it. I think I used maybe one piece.

This would actually make getting the full set and having the set bonus pretty cool.
Honestly all they need to change is to make reps account wide and AK account wide. Boom! You got a alt friendly xpac and a huge happy player base! Everything else is fine the way it is. IMO.
Finding a class I liked took so damn long my reps are *not* exalted.

I have no desire to grind them out on a failed alt.
11/22/2016 03:05 AMPosted by Vi
i have to ask, to you what is a reasonable amount of time to catch up an alt?

because my fresh alts to 110 are getting research in in under 3 days, I'm averaging 20 mins of playtime on my alts a day and 2 of them are raid ready. my warlock is my newest alt to max level and is above 830 with less than 3 hours played @ max level. my hunter and demon hunter alts are both on artifact knowledge 15. my monk is getting AK 17 in 1.5 days. my monk here is 120k AP away from rank 34 on its weapon ( with rank 24 in Brew and 19 in Mistweaver ).

what realistically are people expecting of there alts playtime? to be instant 870+ within 5 hours of 110? my hunter and my demon hunter are both on there final points to get there third golden dragons with less than a day played @ max level. my warlock is on its AP to get its second golden dragon.

I'm honestly curious. because this xpack seems to be the absolute easiest xpack for alts. when you have 1 toon with maxed reps, all of your class hall rep tokens become account bound. I'm feeding mine into my hunter who is approaching exalted with a lot of the factions soon. then I will have 2 toons to feed rep tokens into the next alt, and on and on it goes to get faster and faster to rep alts up.

this argument of " this xpack is ultra alt unfriendly " makes absolutely 0 sense to me. the trick to getting your weapons up is wait a couple days for your AK to come in before trying to farm AP. any early farming of AP is a waste of time, just be patient for the AK to ramp up then go and blitz out there weapons. spend an hour every couple days to knock out a heap of caches and your explode your weapons up in ranks. its so effortless and fast.


All you did was level your alts on like day 1 and then just let them sit waiting on AK to build up. Understand that not everyone did this.

"Just wait a couple days for AK to come in then go farm AP. EZ" a couple days is barely 1 rank if even that which is a negligible increase beyond your first gold trait. Honestly its not significant at all until around lvl 10. Which takes weeks.

Maybe you should just stop being an elitist prick.
I'm confused.

People keep referencing how painful the Suramar rep grind is on the second or third character, but is there any reason you HAVE to do the nightfallen rep grind?

I mean so long as you did on one character and continue to log in occasionally to continue the Suramar Insurrection quest line then you should have everything you need?
I don't really care all that much for max level Legion (so far). Right now I'm just leveling up alts and trying out different classes. I'm focused more on things I've missed than current things going on. Hopefully by the time I finish "catching up" on old content the next expansion will be out.
11/22/2016 03:17 AMPosted by Randysavage
11/22/2016 03:05 AMPosted by Vi
i have to ask, to you what is a reasonable amount of time to catch up an alt?

because my fresh alts to 110 are getting research in in under 3 days, I'm averaging 20 mins of playtime on my alts a day and 2 of them are raid ready. my warlock is my newest alt to max level and is above 830 with less than 3 hours played @ max level. my hunter and demon hunter alts are both on artifact knowledge 15. my monk is getting AK 17 in 1.5 days. my monk here is 120k AP away from rank 34 on its weapon ( with rank 24 in Brew and 19 in Mistweaver ).

what realistically are people expecting of there alts playtime? to be instant 870+ within 5 hours of 110? my hunter and my demon hunter are both on there final points to get there third golden dragons with less than a day played @ max level. my warlock is on its AP to get its second golden dragon.

I'm honestly curious. because this xpack seems to be the absolute easiest xpack for alts. when you have 1 toon with maxed reps, all of your class hall rep tokens become account bound. I'm feeding mine into my hunter who is approaching exalted with a lot of the factions soon. then I will have 2 toons to feed rep tokens into the next alt, and on and on it goes to get faster and faster to rep alts up.

this argument of " this xpack is ultra alt unfriendly " makes absolutely 0 sense to me. the trick to getting your weapons up is wait a couple days for your AK to come in before trying to farm AP. any early farming of AP is a waste of time, just be patient for the AK to ramp up then go and blitz out there weapons. spend an hour every couple days to knock out a heap of caches and your explode your weapons up in ranks. its so effortless and fast.


All you did was level your alts on like day 1 and then just let them sit waiting on AK to build up. Understand that not everyone did this.

"Just wait a couple days for AK to come in then go farm AP. EZ" a couple days is barely 1 rank if even that which is a negligible increase beyond your first gold trait. Honestly its not significant at all until around lvl 10. Which takes weeks.

Maybe you should just stop being an elitist prick.


so having patience makes one an elitist prick now? k.

you didn't answer the question though: how long do you expect it to take to get another alt/character up to your main characters level ( AP, AK, iLv )?
11/22/2016 03:34 AMPosted by Vi


so having patience makes one an elitist prick now? k.

you didn't answer the question though: how long do you expect it to take to get another alt/character up to your main characters level ( AP, AK, iLv )?


no it does make you one when you act the way you are... the current xpac isn't alt friendly and blizzard has acknowledged this, they're working on it. While the OP has a point, they're trying to address the issue--the fact you're trying to argue against it makes you seem ignorant considering that the Devs even admit its a little bit too alt unfriendly.

P.S. just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you should instantly dislike their post :)
lol @ OP surprised he cant level "40+" alts fast.
Data! I bring you actual data and critical analysis!

11/22/2016 03:05 AMPosted by Vi
i have to ask, to you what is a reasonable amount of time to catch up an alt?

I'm not the OP, but I'll give this question a shot.

In the past, alts needed the following three things to become "swappable" as a main -- to actually serve the purpose of an "alternate" character:
1) Gear
2) Reps
3) Professions

Gear came from whatever content you were doing on your main, and it was very simple to funnel gear from one difficulty lower than what your main was doing. Alts could be roughly 15 ilevels behind your main in 2-4 raid lockouts, and it would only take one night a week.

Reps and Professions were the only real grinds, and often they didn't bring anything especially useful (especially once the professions lost their profession-only benefits).

--------------------------------

In Legion, however, you need the same as the above, plus:

4) Artifact Power
5) Artifact Knowledge

Artifact Power (in a vacuum) is merely another grind, along with professions and reps. However, this grind is mandatory to be a viable character, because a significant amount of character power comes from having traits. The addition of this alone is already more alt unfriendly than past expansions.

But this is not a grind that can just be hammered out like the others, no. This grind is exponential, and it is alleviated only by Artifact Knowledge.

Which brings me to the absolute worst and most alt-unfriendly system that has ever existed in WoW.

--------------------------------

I actually did an experiment today, because I just leveled an alt to 110.

My main, this character, is working on his 31st trait -- my new alt is working on her 14th trait. To give some perspective here, the 14th trait is the first trait past the "starter" traits, it's the first trait with a truly exponential scale -- it costs as much to get the 14th trait as to get the previous 13 combined, plus a little extra.

I completed the exact same World Quest that rewarded AP on both characters today. My fresh 110 is on AK 0, my main is on AK 16. For my fresh 110, the AP reward was 4% of their current Artifact Level. For my main, the AP reward was 2% of their current Artifact Level.

That's roughly similar, we're not talking an order of magnitude difference here.

That means that it takes roughly the same amount of time to level the next trait on my fresh alt as it does on my main.

So, what do I do? Park my alt and just wait for AK?

First, and I can't stress this enough -- that's already objectively terrible design. I leveled my alt because I wanted to be able to do things with it, not !@#$ing bench it while it earns the max level equivalent of Rest XP.

But let's actually look deeper under the hood.

In the next 45 days (that's a month and a half), my main will have reached AK 25 (at 5 days per AK), while my alt will have only reached AK 15 (at 3 days per AK). That is actually still an order of magnitude difference in terms of AP rewards.

This is an interesting ratio, because the final trait in an Artifact Weapon costs roughly an order of magnitude more AP than the 31st trait. So, after the next 45 days, if my main is working on the final Artifact Trait, and my alt is working on the 31st trait, the exact same World Quest with the exact same AP reward will be worth the same percent of the AP bar for both my alt and main...STILL.

45 days will have changed NOTHING.

This alt who is currently 17 traits behind, after the next month and a half, will barely be where my main is today. Meanwhile, in a month and a half, my main will actually exceed this new alt by 24 traits instead of 17. My alt will actually be further behind in a month and a half than it is right now.

Yet, after a month and a half, I could easily get the same ilevel on this alt that my main has today.

This fresh alt will permanently be behind. Because this system isn't static, no. This system will continuously get new traits and higher AK added to it.

--------------------------------

This is the least alt-friendly time in World of Warcraft. THIS IS ACTUALLY WORSE THAN HAVING ALTS IN VANILLA.

This current system is, and I hesitate to use this word, literally terrible.

--------------------------------

So, to answer the question posed.

  • Alts should immediately have the highest AK on the account. This should take 0 days. Zero.
  • New players, and players that fell behind, should immediately be able to purchase instant AK research up to 5 AK levels less the theoretical maximum AK, and those next 5 levels should still be faster to research.
  • Each of your weapons on a single character should have the same Artifact Power.
  • Artifact Power gains should "spill over" to alts that are more than 50% behind the character who is gaining the AP.
  • That's what should happen.

    Then, yes, I would be satisfied.
    11/22/2016 03:21 AMPosted by Patchs
    I'm confused.

    People keep referencing how painful the Suramar rep grind is on the second or third character, butIs there any reason you HAVE to do the nightfallen rep grind?

    I mean so long as you did on one character and continue to log in occasionally to continue the Suramar Insurrection quest line then you should have everything you need?


    The character that has the rep is no longer played.

    If I want to do insurrection on the one I play, I have a month long grind.
    11/22/2016 03:17 AMPosted by Randysavage
    11/22/2016 03:05 AMPosted by Vi
    i have to ask, to you what is a reasonable amount of time to catch up an alt?

    because my fresh alts to 110 are getting research in in under 3 days, I'm averaging 20 mins of playtime on my alts a day and 2 of them are raid ready. my warlock is my newest alt to max level and is above 830 with less than 3 hours played @ max level. my hunter and demon hunter alts are both on artifact knowledge 15. my monk is getting AK 17 in 1.5 days. my monk here is 120k AP away from rank 34 on its weapon ( with rank 24 in Brew and 19 in Mistweaver ).

    what realistically are people expecting of there alts playtime? to be instant 870+ within 5 hours of 110? my hunter and my demon hunter are both on there final points to get there third golden dragons with less than a day played @ max level. my warlock is on its AP to get its second golden dragon.

    I'm honestly curious. because this xpack seems to be the absolute easiest xpack for alts. when you have 1 toon with maxed reps, all of your class hall rep tokens become account bound. I'm feeding mine into my hunter who is approaching exalted with a lot of the factions soon. then I will have 2 toons to feed rep tokens into the next alt, and on and on it goes to get faster and faster to rep alts up.

    this argument of " this xpack is ultra alt unfriendly " makes absolutely 0 sense to me. the trick to getting your weapons up is wait a couple days for your AK to come in before trying to farm AP. any early farming of AP is a waste of time, just be patient for the AK to ramp up then go and blitz out there weapons. spend an hour every couple days to knock out a heap of caches and your explode your weapons up in ranks. its so effortless and fast.


    All you did was level your alts on like day 1 and then just let them sit waiting on AK to build up. Understand that not everyone did this.

    "Just wait a couple days for AK to come in then go farm AP. EZ" a couple days is barely 1 rank if even that which is a negligible increase beyond your first gold trait. Honestly its not significant at all until around lvl 10. Which takes weeks.

    Maybe you should just stop being an elitist prick.


    Or maybe people should stop being lazy pricks just wanting everything handed to them.
    You are the ones that chose to have so many alts making the mistake of thinking the game is always gonna be like WOD(everything just handed to you). Well you thought wrong.
    You cant always get a !@#$ ton of herbs and ores without ever leaving the comfort of a dumb garrison.
    Alts have always been a time sink and should remain like that. WoD was so easy it spoiled a lot of the playerbase and now they think everything should just be handed to them.
    11/22/2016 04:53 AMPosted by Planeshaper
    Data! I bring you actual data and critical analysis!

    11/22/2016 03:05 AMPosted by Vi
    i have to ask, to you what is a reasonable amount of time to catch up an alt?

    I'm not the OP, but I'll give this question a shot.

    In the past, alts needed the following three things to become "swappable" as a main -- to actually serve the purpose of an "alternate" character:
    1) Gear
    2) Reps
    3) Professions

    Gear came from whatever content you were doing on your main, and it was very simple to funnel gear from one difficulty lower than what your main was doing. Alts could be roughly 15 ilevels behind your main in 2-4 raid lockouts, and it would only take one night a week.

    Reps and Professions were the only real grinds, and often they didn't bring anything especially useful (especially once the professions lost their profession-only benefits).

    --------------------------------

    In Legion, however, you need the same as the above, plus:

    4) Artifact Power
    5) Artifact Knowledge

    Artifact Power (in a vacuum) is merely another grind, along with professions and reps. However, this grind is mandatory to be a viable character, because a significant amount of character power comes from having traits. The addition of this alone is already more alt unfriendly than past expansions.

    But this is not a grind that can just be hammered out like the others, no. This grind is exponential, and it is alleviated only by Artifact Knowledge.

    Which brings me to the absolute worst and most alt-unfriendly system that has ever existed in WoW.

    --------------------------------

    I actually did an experiment today, because I just leveled an alt to 110.

    My main, this character, is working on his 31st trait -- my new alt is working on her 14th trait. To give some perspective here, the 14th trait is the first trait past the "starter" traits, it's the first trait with a truly exponential scale -- it costs as much to get the 14th trait as to get the previous 13 combined, plus a little extra.

    I completed the exact same World Quest that rewarded AP on both characters today. My fresh 110 is on AK 0, my main is on AK 16. For my fresh 110, the AP reward was 4% of their current Artifact Level. For my main, the AP reward was 2% of their current Artifact Level.

    That's roughly similar, we're not talking an order of magnitude difference here.

    That means that it takes roughly the same amount of time to level the next trait on my fresh alt as it does on my main.

    So, what do I do? Park my alt and just wait for AK?

    First, and I can't stress this enough -- that's already objectively terrible design. I leveled my alt because I wanted to be able to do things with it, not !@#$ing bench it while it earns the max level equivalent of Rest XP.

    But let's actually look deeper under the hood.

    In the next 45 days (that's a month and a half), my main will have reached AK 25 (at 5 days per AK), while my alt will have only reached AK 15 (at 3 days per AK). That is actually still an order of magnitude difference in terms of AP rewards.

    This is an interesting ratio, because the final trait in an Artifact Weapon costs roughly an order of magnitude more AP than the 31st trait. So, after the next 45 days, if my main is working on the final Artifact Trait, and my alt is working on the 31st trait, the exact same World Quest with the exact same AP reward will be worth the same percent of the AP bar for both my alt and main...STILL.

    45 days will have changed NOTHING.

    This alt who is currently 17 traits behind, after the next month and a half, will barely be where my main is today. Meanwhile, in a month and a half, my main will actually exceed this new alt by 24 traits instead of 17. My alt will actually be further behind in a month and a half than it is right now.

    Yet, after a month and a half, I could easily get the same ilevel on this alt that my main has today.

    This fresh alt will permanently be behind. Because this system isn't static, no. This system will continuously get new traits and higher AK added to it.

    --------------------------------

    This is the least alt-friendly time in World of Warcraft. THIS IS ACTUALLY WORSE THAN HAVING ALTS IN VANILLA.

    This current system is, and I hesitate to use this word, literally terrible.

    --------------------------------

    So, to answer the question posed.

  • Alts should immediately have the highest AK on the account. This should take 0 days. Zero.
  • New players, and players that fell behind, should immediately be able to purchase instant AK research up to 5 AK levels less the theoretical maximum AK, and those next 5 levels should still be faster to research.
  • Each of your weapons on a single character should have the same Artifact Power.
  • Artifact Power gains should "spill over" to alts that are more than 50% behind the character who is gaining the AP.
  • That's what should happen.

    Then, yes, I would be satisfied.


    So basically you want 10 mains instead of 1 main and 9 alts.
    Planeshaper, that's not an alt. That's "I want to play one character and have instant access to everything on any character I choose."

    I play a lot of alts. Some are behind others. That's OK. They're not instantly heroic EN ready. That's OK, too.

    They play the content that's appropriate to them. I have one that just ran its first heroic yesterday. It did OK. I was nearly last on the meter because I ended up in the same instance as a guildie who rocked the instance. Again... that's OK.

    What you propose would take away nearly all of the replayability I have in my alts. Every single one would bypass nearly all the content. OK, I can run EN. And... that's it.

    Just because you have alts doesn't mean you need to have them instantly at max level and instantly geared and instantly through the grinds associated with playing the game. Because that's part of playing the game.

    We're in an expansion where Blizzard finally got the idea we need stuff to do. I'm mostly done with that stuff. My first character does the 4 WQs a day and a heroic a day and raids on guild alt night. I'd really, really, really rather not do that with 6 characters (I have 6 at max level currently.)

    I want to run normal dungeons. Then heroics. I want to grind out gear and AP and search through WQs for rewards that advance my characters. Because the entire game is not about having everything done. It's about the process of getting there.

    Join the Conversation

    Return to Forum