4 Legendary "soft cap": Why Blizz?

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The legendary system is awful, almost as awful as artifact weapons but that's just my opinion.

Why didnt they use a token or drop system? MMOs are full of RNG by nature, why add more with drastic impacts on game play.

I like legion, they're doing a lot of things right but after two months of high play time i finally got a legandry. It was the neck. Sure its getting buffed and is going to be a great tank neck.. But Im a DPS.

The chase isnt fun, its not a thrill, its not exciting. Its tedious and boring.
Im really dissapointed with you Blizzard.

The whole legendary thing is bull!@#$.

I think blizz wanted the unbalance legendaries provide. Its the only reason for legendaries being soft-capped.

Adding more legendaries on 7.1.5, when they ll probably increase the soft-cap thing, will make getting good ones nearly impossible.

Guys who wont believe on this, open your eyes, blizz are avoiding a scenario when someone got all the legendaries he wants for his spec.

I got my fourth a couple days ago, a good one finally, but it seen ll be the last one, and i was really excited, changing legendaries make everything exciting and dynamic. The best part of getting many legendaries.


If Blizzard says there is no softcap why do you believe some random person on reddit instead ?
.


Just saying, but because blizzard say something doesn't means it's true...

remember bad luck protection early in legion? yeah... 2 week later they actually fixed it so people with legendaries didn't get an automatic second legendaries.

Remember the various artifact hidden skin that 'where in game, but nobody found?''.. yeah, 2 week later we get a ''ops, X was bugged... now it's fixed!'', (see warriors skins).

Remember when they said legion wouldn't have major class change forcing respec/redesigning classes? have you looked at 7.1.5?

You have to understand there's a crapload of people working for blizz. Just because a community manager (or even a dev) says something doesn't means it's true /will remain valid forever.

In the specific case of legendaries softcap; everyone who have 5 or more got multiple legendaries during the 'bugged' early week of legion. everyonelse appear to be stuck at 4 (stuck as in several hundred runs of mythic+) despite the first 4 comming in at a decent rate (aka they have run more m+ trying to get their 5th than they did for no. 1 to 4).

it may be due to a hardcoded softcap... it may be unintentional, it may be bad luck protection not working after 4... but it's kinda a big deal since (especially at mythic level) some classes are tuned around specific legendaries. While some of them (sephuz, prydaz) are complete pile of trash, usually a downgrade compared to a ring 30 ilvl lower with proper stats, other legendaries are such massive boost they make/break classes (mage double timewarp. warrior ring/glove basically being 30k+dps by themselve, each...)

With 7.1.5 around the door, some specs being nerfed (fire mage), new legendaries added, old legendaries nerfed... surely you can see why people are asking questions.
11/23/2016 08:41 PMPosted by Nagasis
How would it feel legendary if you're walking around with 7+ pieces in your bags? It might as well be regular gear at that point.


it already doesn't feel legendary.

the ring didn't feel legendary in WoD either

the cloak didn't feel legendary in MoP either

when everybody have a legendary... it's not legendary.

These items are actually higher Ilvl piece of equipment with a special effect that can be anywhere from totally useless (sephuz) to absolutely game-breakingly overpowered (mage's double timewarp, execute ring, DK bracer... and more).
The secondary stats on the item can also make them great stats sticks, or a downgrade compared to some properly itemized piece 30ilvl lower.

Those items are also obtained through pure RNG... and now we learn there's a maximal amount of time we can roll that RNG... as a result, world-top tier mythic raider are buying account / rerolling 35AP toons hoping to get a proper legendary.
-Mythic + loot nerfed to give RNG chance instead of guaranteed loot.
Reason: top 0.5% of guilds funneling loot and gearing up alts fast.
Result: Top 0.5% still do this, and not slowed down. Rest of the 99.5% of players screwed over now.

-Can't trade personal loot if it's an ilvl upgrade.
Reason: Same as above.
Result: Same as above.

-Four legendary soft cap.
Reason: Same as above.
Result: Essentially the same as above, except not fully realized yet. This will become more apparent when people try to gear up offspecs and get stuck wearing their other spec's legendary for a stat stick. It also results in people being fearful of playing any spec besides the one they want a legendary on.
11/23/2016 12:47 PMPosted by Kahl
Like how the week after they said Bad Luck Protection is a thing and to "just do more content", everyone in your guild magically got their first legendary, and some got their second very shortly after?

Wow... This is EXACTLY what happened with us!!!
11/24/2016 07:44 AMPosted by Xodok
11/23/2016 12:47 PMPosted by Kahl
Like how the week after they said Bad Luck Protection is a thing and to "just do more content", everyone in your guild magically got their first legendary, and some got their second very shortly after?

Wow... This is EXACTLY what happened with us!!!


They said they increased the drop chance for your first legendary with the release of patch 7.1. That's why they were raining from the sky right after the patch. No word on 2nd one's drop rate though.
All i know is Blizzard is in for some fireworks from the playerbase when they come back from thanksgiving.
-
-Four legendary soft cap.
Reason: Same as above.
Result: Essentially the same as above, except not fully realized yet. This will become more apparent when people try to gear up offspecs and get stuck wearing their other spec's legendary for a stat stick. It also results in people being fearful of playing any spec besides the one they want a legendary on.


Actually, people with 4 legendaries have ran more mythic+ /raid in 2 months than what your average casual player will run in the lifetime of the expansion... so this may not apply to them.
11/24/2016 08:06 AMPosted by Vlurg
-
-Four legendary soft cap.
Reason: Same as above.
Result: Essentially the same as above, except not fully realized yet. This will become more apparent when people try to gear up offspecs and get stuck wearing their other spec's legendary for a stat stick. It also results in people being fearful of playing any spec besides the one they want a legendary on.


Actually, people with 4 legendaries have ran more mythic+ /raid in 2 months than what your average casual player will run in the lifetime of the expansion... so this may not apply to them.


This is true, however the biggest difference between the legendary softcap and the other things he listed above is that the other things were made publicly known and players knew the rules going into the content. If there is a softcap and it was not made public knowledge then this would mean that people have just been just wasting their time farming for a 5th. If i had known it would be like this I would have made 2-3 warriors and taken the one which got the best legendaries first as my "main" instead of getting stuck with sephuz as my first legendary.
This is just speculation.
11/24/2016 08:21 AMPosted by Vincentiu
This is just speculation.


you start with speculation,

then you add observation in order to get correlation. aka all the players with 1k+ M+ done, yet still stuck at 4 legendaries while the only people with 5 or more happens to have looted them early-legion during the bugged weeks. Then you get a hypothesis who seems stronger and stronger each day.

TL:DR people get their first 4 legendaries within 200-300M+ dungeons then grind 1k+ M+ without see'ing a 5th drop. Huge statistical discrepancy leads to a very plausible softcap, who may or may not be intentional.
More proof that the legendary system is easily the worst thing off legion. It's not even a contest.
11/24/2016 08:30 AMPosted by Vlurg
11/24/2016 08:21 AMPosted by Vincentiu
This is just speculation.


you start with speculation,

then you add observation in order to get correlation. aka all the players with 1k+ M+ done, yet still stuck at 4 legendaries while the only people with 5 or more happens to have looted them early-legion during the bugged weeks. Then you get a hypothesis who seems stronger and stronger each day.

TL:DR people get their first 4 legendaries within 200-300M+ dungeons then grind 1k+ M+ without see'ing a 5th drop. Huge statistical discrepancy leads to a very plausible softcap, who may or may not be intentional.


Pretty much this, the whole legendaries thing keep getting worse.

Disgusting
11/24/2016 08:38 AMPosted by Sakujo
More proof that the legendary system is easily the worst thing off legion. It's not even a contest.


Honestly this is probably the single worst system ever implemented in WoW imo
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Let's talk a bit about legendaries.

From the beginning of Legion, we've deliberately been pretty tight-lipped about how obtaining them works, because the best thing you can do to get them really does just boil down to "play the game and do the max-level activities you enjoy most." It was meant to be a background universal reward that would occasionally offer a surge of power to complement the transparent and omnipresent Artifact and normal itemization systems. Obviously, as we sit here reading posts speculating whether it's better to delete unwanted legendaries to improve your chances of getting more, there's a lesson for us to learn from how that approach has played out. (PS: Don't delete your legendaries. The system looks at what you've gotten, not what you have.)

We've also been pretty conservative in our design, with the intent of loosening the reins as time went on. With a system of this scale that spans all max-level activities, we couldn't be certain that we'd tuned it correctly based on data from thousands of people playing our beta for a few hours a week; it'd inevitably be different in the live game with millions of people playing in far more focused ways. And we knew that if we erred on the side of legendaries being too common, we could easily end up in a situation where some people (whether lucky people, or those who played the most) were flooded with them. If that happened, it'd have been a mess - a chunk of the playerbase would've had bags full of legendary items and no more to look forward to for months to come, and if we'd tried to "fix" it after the fact, then everyone who hadn't taken advantage of the generous period would have felt forever behind.

So we started out stingy, since if we erred in that direction it would be far more fixable. (We've since increased legendary drop rates in general, in patch 7.1). We also put some measures in place to reduce the gap between the very luckiest player and the unluckiest player. Luck is inevitably a factor in games like this, but with millions of people playing the game, if we allowed pure randomness to go unchecked, there would inevitably be some players who played hours every week and literally never saw a single legendary item. Thus, the so-called "bad luck protection" that improves your chances a bit each time you could have gotten a legendary but failed to do so.

As its name suggests, the "bad luck protection" system exists to protect the unluckiest players from the cruel fate of the dice. Those who were on the other end of the spectrum in terms of good fortune, we figured, didn't need a system to help put them even farther ahead of the rest of the world. And we drew that line at 4 legendaries, initially, planning to raise it as time went on. Once you'd gotten 4, you could absolutely get more, but the invisible hand of "bad luck protection" would no longer help you. Almost by definition, if you had 4 legendaries in, say, early October, you were super-lucky. You didn't need help getting more.

What we genuinely did not anticipate was just how much some of the very most dedicated players would play, mainly in pursuit of Artifact Power. By mid-November, we started to hear questions about whether there was some sort of 4-legendary limit, and we realized that there existed a group of players that had done so much content that they actually had an expected legendary count of around 4. They hadn't needed to be unusually lucky to get there. (Note that this is a very small group. They're overrepresented in these discussions, because this issue concerns them, but we're talking about hundreds of people out of millions.)

So we removed that soft cap just over a week ago. "Bad luck protection" now applies indefinitely. Most of the players in this category have probably been focusing on Mythic Trial of Valor for the past week, and since wiping repeatedly to raid bosses during progress sadly can't award legendaries, they haven't had a chance to see the effects of the change just yet. If/when some players get to a point when they have every legendary available for their spec, then so be it. They certainly will have earned it, and there will be more coming in future patches. The Unique-Equipped limit keeps the power gap between the haves and have-nots reasonable, and we'll continue to adjust the effectiveness of the outlier legendaries (coming up in patch 7.1.5) with the goal of keeping them exciting but not gamebreaking.
11/24/2016 08:50 AMPosted by Watcher
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Let's talk a bit about legendaries.

From the beginning of Legion, we've deliberately been pretty tight-lipped about how obtaining them works, because the best thing you can do to get them really does just boil down to "play the game and do the max-level activities you enjoy most." It was meant to be a background universal reward that would occasionally offer a surge of power to complement the transparent and omnipresent Artifact and normal itemization systems. Obviously, as we sit here reading posts speculating whether it's better to delete unwanted legendaries to improve your chances of getting more, there's a lesson for us to learn from how that approach has played out. (PS: Don't delete your legendaries. The system looks at what you've gotten, not what you have.)

We've also been pretty conservative in our design, with the intent of loosening the reins as time went on. With a system of this scale that spans all max-level activities, we couldn't be certain that we'd tuned it correctly based on data from thousands of people playing our beta for a few hours a week; it'd inevitably be different in the live game with millions of people playing in far more focused ways. And we knew that if we erred on the side of legendaries being too common, we could easily end up in a situation where some people (whether lucky people, or those who played the most) were flooded with them. If that happened, it'd have been a mess - a chunk of the playerbase would've had bags full of legendary items and no more to look forward to for months to come, and if we'd tried to "fix" it after the fact, then everyone who hadn't taken advantage of the generous period would have felt forever behind.

So we started out stingy, since if we erred in that direction it would be far more fixable. (We've since increased legendary drop rates in general, in patch 7.1). We also put some measures in place to reduce the gap between the very luckiest player and the unluckiest player. Luck is inevitably a factor in games like this, but with millions of people playing the game, if we allowed pure randomness to go unchecked, there would inevitably be some players who played hours every week and literally never saw a single legendary item. Thus, the so-called "bad luck protection" that improves your chances a bit each time you could have gotten a legendary but failed to do so.

As its name suggests, the "bad luck protection" system exists to protect the unluckiest players from the cruel fate of the dice. Those who were on the other end of the spectrum in terms of good fortune, we figured, didn't need a system to help put them even farther ahead of the rest of the world. And we drew that line at 4 legendaries, initially, planning to raise it as time went on. Once you'd gotten 4, you could absolutely get more, but the invisible hand of "bad luck protection" would no longer help you. Almost by definition, if you had 4 legendaries in, say, early October, you were super-lucky. You didn't need help getting more.

What we genuinely did not anticipate was just how much some of the very most dedicated players would play, mainly in pursuit of Artifact Power. By mid-November, we started to hear questions about whether there was some sort of 4-legendary limit, and we realized that there existed a group of players that had done so much content that they actually had an expected legendary count of around 4. They hadn't needed to be unusually lucky to get there. (Note that this is a very small group. They're overrepresented in these discussions, because this issue concerns them, but we're talking about hundreds of people out of millions.)

So we removed that soft cap just over a week ago. "Bad luck protection" now applies indefinitely. Most of the players in this category have probably been focusing on Mythic Trial of Valor for the past week, and since wiping repeatedly to raid bosses during progress sadly can't award legendaries, they haven't had a chance to see the effects of the change just yet. If/when some players get to a point when they have every legendary available for their spec, then so be it. They certainly will have earned it, and there will be more coming in future patches. The Unique-Equipped limit keeps the power gap between the haves and have-nots reasonable, and we'll continue to adjust the effectiveness of the outlier legendaries (coming up in patch 7.1.5) with the goal of keeping them exciting but not gamebreaking.


so basically what you are saying is everything he said in that mmo forum post is true and that you guys fix raids while watching them do them when they should be finished on release

what exactly is finished on release anymore?
11/24/2016 08:50 AMPosted by Watcher
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Let's talk a bit about legendaries.

From the beginning of Legion, we've deliberately been pretty tight-lipped about how obtaining them works, because the best thing you can do to get them really does just boil down to "play the game and do the max-level activities you enjoy most." It was meant to be a background universal reward that would occasionally offer a surge of power to complement the transparent and omnipresent Artifact and normal itemization systems. Obviously, as we sit here reading posts speculating whether it's better to delete unwanted legendaries to improve your chances of getting more, there's a lesson for us to learn from how that approach has played out. (PS: Don't delete your legendaries. The system looks at what you've gotten, not what you have.)

We've also been pretty conservative in our design, with the intent of loosening the reins as time went on. With a system of this scale that spans all max-level activities, we couldn't be certain that we'd tuned it correctly based on data from thousands of people playing our beta for a few hours a week; it'd inevitably be different in the live game with millions of people playing in far more focused ways. And we knew that if we erred on the side of legendaries being too common, we could easily end up in a situation where some people (whether lucky people, or those who played the most) were flooded with them. If that happened, it'd have been a mess - a chunk of the playerbase would've had bags full of legendary items and no more to look forward to for months to come, and if we'd tried to "fix" it after the fact, then everyone who hadn't taken advantage of the generous period would have felt forever behind.

So we started out stingy, since if we erred in that direction it would be far more fixable. (We've since increased legendary drop rates in general, in patch 7.1). We also put some measures in place to reduce the gap between the very luckiest player and the unluckiest player. Luck is inevitably a factor in games like this, but with millions of people playing the game, if we allowed pure randomness to go unchecked, there would inevitably be some players who played hours every week and literally never saw a single legendary item. Thus, the so-called "bad luck protection" that improves your chances a bit each time you could have gotten a legendary but failed to do so.

As its name suggests, the "bad luck protection" system exists to protect the unluckiest players from the cruel fate of the dice. Those who were on the other end of the spectrum in terms of good fortune, we figured, didn't need a system to help put them even farther ahead of the rest of the world. And we drew that line at 4 legendaries, initially, planning to raise it as time went on. Once you'd gotten 4, you could absolutely get more, but the invisible hand of "bad luck protection" would no longer help you. Almost by definition, if you had 4 legendaries in, say, early October, you were super-lucky. You didn't need help getting more.

What we genuinely did not anticipate was just how much some of the very most dedicated players would play, mainly in pursuit of Artifact Power. By mid-November, we started to hear questions about whether there was some sort of 4-legendary limit, and we realized that there existed a group of players that had done so much content that they actually had an expected legendary count of around 4. They hadn't needed to be unusually lucky to get there. (Note that this is a very small group. They're overrepresented in these discussions, because this issue concerns them, but we're talking about hundreds of people out of millions.)

So we removed that soft cap just over a week ago. "Bad luck protection" now applies indefinitely. Most of the players in this category have probably been focusing on Mythic Trial of Valor for the past week, and since wiping repeatedly to raid bosses during progress sadly can't award legendaries, they haven't had a chance to see the effects of the change just yet. If/when some players get to a point when they have every legendary available for their spec, then so be it. They certainly will have earned it, and there will be more coming in future patches. The Unique-Equipped limit keeps the power gap between the haves and have-nots reasonable, and we'll continue to adjust the effectiveness of the outlier legendaries (coming up in patch 7.1.5) with the goal of keeping them exciting but not gamebreaking.
thank you for communicating this to us, especially being on thanksgiving. this kind of communication is the main thing we players want. thank you.
11/24/2016 08:50 AMPosted by Watcher
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Let's talk a bit about legendaries.

From the beginning of Legion, we've deliberately been pretty tight-lipped about how obtaining them works, because the best thing you can do to get them really does just boil down to "play the game and do the max-level activities you enjoy most." It was meant to be a background universal reward that would occasionally offer a surge of power to complement the transparent and omnipresent Artifact and normal itemization systems. Obviously, as we sit here reading posts speculating whether it's better to delete unwanted legendaries to improve your chances of getting more, there's a lesson for us to learn from how that approach has played out. (PS: Don't delete your legendaries. The system looks at what you've gotten, not what you have.)

We've also been pretty conservative in our design, with the intent of loosening the reins as time went on. With a system of this scale that spans all max-level activities, we couldn't be certain that we'd tuned it correctly based on data from thousands of people playing our beta for a few hours a week; it'd inevitably be different in the live game with millions of people playing in far more focused ways. And we knew that if we erred on the side of legendaries being too common, we could easily end up in a situation where some people (whether lucky people, or those who played the most) were flooded with them. If that happened, it'd have been a mess - a chunk of the playerbase would've had bags full of legendary items and no more to look forward to for months to come, and if we'd tried to "fix" it after the fact, then everyone who hadn't taken advantage of the generous period would have felt forever behind.

So we started out stingy, since if we erred in that direction it would be far more fixable. (We've since increased legendary drop rates in general, in patch 7.1). We also put some measures in place to reduce the gap between the very luckiest player and the unluckiest player. Luck is inevitably a factor in games like this, but with millions of people playing the game, if we allowed pure randomness to go unchecked, there would inevitably be some players who played hours every week and literally never saw a single legendary item. Thus, the so-called "bad luck protection" that improves your chances a bit each time you could have gotten a legendary but failed to do so.

As its name suggests, the "bad luck protection" system exists to protect the unluckiest players from the cruel fate of the dice. Those who were on the other end of the spectrum in terms of good fortune, we figured, didn't need a system to help put them even farther ahead of the rest of the world. And we drew that line at 4 legendaries, initially, planning to raise it as time went on. Once you'd gotten 4, you could absolutely get more, but the invisible hand of "bad luck protection" would no longer help you. Almost by definition, if you had 4 legendaries in, say, early October, you were super-lucky. You didn't need help getting more.

What we genuinely did not anticipate was just how much some of the very most dedicated players would play, mainly in pursuit of Artifact Power. By mid-November, we started to hear questions about whether there was some sort of 4-legendary limit, and we realized that there existed a group of players that had done so much content that they actually had an expected legendary count of around 4. They hadn't needed to be unusually lucky to get there. (Note that this is a very small group. They're overrepresented in these discussions, because this issue concerns them, but we're talking about hundreds of people out of millions.)

So we removed that soft cap just over a week ago. "Bad luck protection" now applies indefinitely. Most of the players in this category have probably been focusing on Mythic Trial of Valor for the past week, and since wiping repeatedly to raid bosses during progress sadly can't award legendaries, they haven't had a chance to see the effects of the change just yet. If/when some players get to a point when they have every legendary available for their spec, then so be it. They certainly will have earned it, and there will be more coming in future patches. The Unique-Equipped limit keeps the power gap between the haves and have-nots reasonable, and we'll continue to adjust the effectiveness of the outlier legendaries (coming up in patch 7.1.5) with the goal of keeping them exciting but not gamebreaking.


Go enjoy your Thanksgiving!
11/24/2016 08:50 AMPosted by Watcher
And we drew that line at 4 legendaries, initially, planning to raise it as time went on.


So, this thing exists even though the only time we get an official answer, is when people have a problem with it.

I really want to know the reasons why deciding to keep such informations hidden from the player base and why not discussing it openly to avoid such problems.

To have 2 to 50 legendaries doesn't matter because you can only equip 2 (or more in the future, but there's always a gap), and since there's some oranges that are close to useless, it's a reversal bad-luck protection to just block then into having a better orange in a slot.

But thanks for acknowledging the problem above and releasing the soft-cap. Hpy thanks giving!

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