What Happened to Retribution?

General Discussion
I recently returned to WOW for Legion and have to say I'm kinda disappointed with how it feels to play Ret without Hammer of Wrath and Exorcism. I've been a Ret Paladin main for both PVP and PVE since WOTLK and always loved it whether the spec was at a time of being OP or mediocre. This time around, I've been playing and for the first time ever feel bored with my character.

Pros:
Consistency is definitely nice to have without relying on Avenging Wrath and Guardian of the Ancient Kings.

It's a strong spec all around where you feel everything from healing to damage and mobility are strong enough to get by in most situations.

Cons:
IT'S MISSING SHOCK & EXCITEMENT that used to come from Exorcism crits or just barely getting a kill by tossing our Hammer of Wrath!

Consistent strength makes gameplay boring when its awarded simply for following the same rotation. In this case, it would be nice to have good consistency but with the ability for some burst and surprises in the rotation. For example, Frost mages have Ice Lances which do crazy burst if they time it up with an opponent being frozen. This would be something nice to bring into the gameplay of the paladin to keep the class from feeling so stale.

Obvious Concerns:
Adding these moves back in for the Paladin would make the class way to strong and would take away from other classes uniqueness such as Warriors having Execute.

Possible Solutions: (Please Everyone Suggest Solutions Other than Mine)

Exorcism: Maybe make it a move that is highly selective as to when it should be used in place of another move in the rotation. It doesn't have to be some crazy move that paladins can spam in order to act like a ranged class, but rather could be something that really pays off for the Ret Paladin only if the player sets the stage exactly right for the move.

Hammer of Wrath: I think adding some restriction and uncertainty into this move would make it different enough that it doesn't intrude on the stable, kill secure style of a Warrior's Execute.
First, as per usual Hammer of Wrath could only be used on targets 20%, yet the Ret must have some set amount of Holy Power (*or something much more outside the box than that*) and the move neither generates nor consumes any Holy Power until striking its target.
Second, make Hammer of Wrath hold some form of uncertainty in which the player may or may not want to risk using Hammer of Wrath unless in a tight situation.
In regards to the second requirement, this can be done by tying in some class lore to the move: If the Ret paladin finds it misjudges its target with Hammer of Wrath, then the move does less damage to the target and debuffs or damages the Paladin until they use their traditional judgement ability again as a personal act of repentance. Contrarily, if the Paladin makes a proper judgement against it's target, then Hammer of Wrath greatly condemns the opponent in which damage is based on the Holy Power stored and in turn consumed by the successful Hammer of Wrath Judgement.

TLDR: All and all the above is simply to spark some creative conversation about whether or not players miss Hammer of Wrath and Exorcism, and if so to suggest ways in which they can be added back to our Retribution Paladins while remaining fair to the other classes. Every class deserves to be fun and exciting, and I'm pretty sure it would make just about every Paladin's expansion experience and likelihood of staying engaged in WOW much better if these moves were to be added back. They were staples to the excitement found when playing Retribution in every previous expansion(or at least HOW definitely was and Exorcism for the more recent ones) so I think we all share the hope that they will be brought back.
Ability pruning and class homogenization happened.
01/03/2017 02:06 PMPosted by Gardashañ
Consistency is definitely nice to have without relying on Avenging Wrath


I've got bad news for you.
You will be a flashy arms warrior and you will like it.
More haste
You forgot to list all the new and exciting sparkly animations you received under your Pros section. That should count for quite a bit, really.
Someone hasn't activated Crusade yet.

And sorry, there's nothing as exciting as landing a 1.6M Templar's Verdict. Well except landing 2 of them back to back on a journey to reconquer the Holy Land.

Ret design in Legion is that of the hard hitter Melee instead of the death by thousand cuts Semi-Ranged it had become in Mists/WoD.

Also if you think you do good damage without Avenging Wrath, you have no idea what you're talking about.
01/03/2017 02:10 PMPosted by Kyveli
You will be a flashy arms warrior and you will like it.


Have you even played Arms ? I have. It plays nothing like Ret. Not even close. Fishing for Tactician procs while waiting 30 seconds to do any damage, while leaping everywhere like a monkey is nothing at all like Rets steady pressure.
With Legion I can finally begin to grasp ret, which speaks more to my age (66) than anything, but I am enjoying it. Somehow it ended up being my 3rd 110, rising out of the dust to claim that spot unexpectedly.
01/03/2017 02:41 PMPosted by Berith
01/03/2017 02:10 PMPosted by Kyveli
You will be a flashy arms warrior and you will like it.


Have you even played Arms ? I have. It plays nothing like Ret. Not even close. Fishing for Tactician procs while waiting 30 seconds to do any damage, while leaping everywhere like a monkey is nothing at all like Rets steady pressure.
Some, not much. I'm just being snarky about judgement smash as a mechanic.
Get to 100 -> Learn Crusade -> Feel like a god -> Crusade wears off -> Feel sad
I don't mind ret this expansion... never really play it tho cuz I am not a big fan of cows or belfs. I like the new animations, and as all classes have received heavy pruning it feels ok to play to me. May actually get him up to 110 someday....
01/03/2017 02:42 PMPosted by Darstine
01/03/2017 02:41 PMPosted by Berith
...

Have you even played Arms ? I have. It plays nothing like Ret. Not even close. Fishing for Tactician procs while waiting 30 seconds to do any damage, while leaping everywhere like a monkey is nothing at all like Rets steady pressure.
Some, not much. I'm just being snarky about judgement smash as a mechanic.


You mean Judgment of the Crusader, an original Vanilla mechanic we got back in Legion after it was copied from Ret for Warriors ?

Paladins Judging to do more damage to a mob is a Paladin original mechanic from back in 2004.
The better question is: Who cares?
I was having trouble with Ret until I figured out that the Gold Artifact ability that lets you build five Holy Power instantly can be paired with the 5 HP Talent that heals you up. I think the healing has been nerfed some, but even so, it's a godsend in solo play, useful in group content when healers are busy elsewhere, and can make the difference between victory and loss in PvP.
Eh, I'd trade the insane burst damage and CD gimmick for being able to do something to a mage.
01/03/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Ashania
Eh, I'd trade the insane burst damage and CD gimmick for being able to do something to a mage.


Law&Order, Lawbringer. I'd trade nothing of our toolkit for PvP. Especially not IRT a single spec out of 36 like Frost Mage.
01/03/2017 02:54 PMPosted by Berith
01/03/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Ashania
Eh, I'd trade the insane burst damage and CD gimmick for being able to do something to a mage.


Law&Order, Lawbringer. I'd trade nothing of our toolkit for PvP. Especially not IRT a single spec out of 36 like Frost Mage.


Don't get me wrong, I love the ret PvP toolkit, but I'm not liking the hard counters when playing some specs. In ret's case, I just wish ret had at least a little more baseline speed.
Ret are fine

Nerf warriors
IT SUCKS....

So I heal as a Pally and DPS as a monk.

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