Emergency: Arena Participation

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I think we just need more tools to add a dimension of gameplay like glyphs are a great example.

actually it kinda does, the way you word it, it makes wod looks like a semi decent expansion, but it doesnt

wod had less participation from mop, which means some people that played mop quit during wod, and now people that played during wod, quit during legion

basically, pvp (rated arena) is gradually declining, and there's no incentive for super new player to queue pvp, even if there is, the wall of "must have 2.2k exp" would just turn them down before they actually try it

"but why pve didnt suffer the exact same fate as pvp?, both have exp and gear gate"

while pve has "AOTC or gtfo", it doesnt carry to the next expansion or major patch, or tier, if you link AOTC Archimonde to queue Heroic EN, you'll get declined, so a newbie raider can technically catch up everytime a new raid tier is out, this is not the case for Rated Arena PVP, arena community still treat 2.2k exp wotlk player as current 2.2k exp player

the wall to enter rated arena is bigger than the one to enter raid

I'm not denying that what you said is a thing, because it's one of the reasons why I don't do arena anymore myself. Networking is a problem and getting back into arena, I'd have to somewhat learn again myself because I've been out of it for a while - but I don't have the people to play arenas with that are willing to help me along in the first few matches or so.

What I said was more aimed at the part of his post that I quoted, that "because arenas aren't required for the best gear anymore, people aren't playing them", I was trying to point out that it isn't the case, because people still did play arenas even when it wasn't required for the best gear.

There are more reasons, like class balancing/design being pretty horrendous, networking being a major problem for new/returning players to get into Arenas again - especially if they want to push high ratings for elite gear, etc.

There's also a lack of rewards now: No tabard, no enchants, no cloak, no guaranteed elite set. Nothing except titles.
Maybe the elite set if you are extremely lucky or you wait until the end of S2, which is still bad.
12/27/2016 09:11 PMPosted by Divium
I think we just need more tools to add a dimension of gameplay like glyphs are a great example.

Glyphs always added a nice depth to the game, or another level I should say.
This is the first expansion that I've looked at PVP and made the conscious decision not to bother with it.

I started this xpac late because I was on the fence about it. As a result, I was behind on artifact power, AK and on honor talents. Typically, a new alt or joining the xpac late means that I have a conquest cap my friends can help me with in the span of an afternoon.

This time, the grind lasted at least a month before I felt like I'd caught up enough to even attempt to do anything. The removal of PVP gear has, ironically, made PVP less accessible; it meant that I had to go and gear through other means while keeping well in mind that I also had to go ahead and grind out my AP and then my honor talents.

It was just too much. By the time I got everything done, got decently caught up on AP, gear and honor talents, I'd already lost interest in running for the expansion. By then, I'd discovered the unhealable damage problem by watching streams and talking to other healer mains (possibly due to the artifact system giving DPS more dmg and healers more utility, making DPS scale better than healers) and had discovered that PVE isn't so bad after-all.

It doesn't feel like there's any value in playing well and no point in trying.

And that's setting aside all of the changes to my favorite healer: MW.
The high CR/Exp requirements are what's kept me out.

I'd love to learn the arena side of the game but the people that know it only want to play with other people that know it.
12/27/2016 09:11 PMPosted by Divium
I think we just need more tools to add a dimension of gameplay like glyphs are a great example.

I'd go back and quote your other post, but you'd know what I'm referring to, so I'll somewhat reply to both.

I'd say we can (and should) ask for class balancing (in terms of damage numbers) while also asking for class diversity and fun. It is achievable - at least in some capacity, WotLK and MoP managed to do it to a far better degree than Legion, thus Legion should be able to do it as well even if there are more abilities added back in for utility and whatnot.

Class balance(to some degree) with classes also being fun and different is possible and should be a focus - being 100-0'd by things like Destro MLD, WW/DK(walking dead cleave) is not fun and should not ever be a thing. There should be more counterplay to it then "oh, I can't trinket this grip, leg sweep, we're probably dead here". That should not be the end of a match simply because the damage those comps can put out is ridiculous.

That said, more dimensions on gameplay would be nice, things that could allow for counterplay like what we had before: Tremor Totem, Grounding Totem, Unholy Frenzy, things like that.

12/27/2016 09:17 PMPosted by Groundit

Glyphs always added a nice depth to the game, or another level I should say.

For sure. It added thought in a way, you changed your glyphs based on comp or how you'd prefer to play an enemy comp, iirc.
Well, the never ending amount of cheaters in arena certainly discourages people from caring anymore. Same with RBGs, cheaters galore.

I'm not saying cheating wasn't a problem in WoD(it was a huge problem) but people are fed up at this point.

What's also rampant is boosting. It takes away the awesomeness of the rewards since anyone can just PAY their way to obtaining them....Boosting needs to be banned, completely.
I used to pvp a lot back in the day. In vanilla my guild took turns grinding each other to rank 14, I had three characters at officer ranks when ranks died and the title you had became permanent. In BC I played arena constantly, getting up to top 1% on my druid (mostly because pvp gear for druids was better than raid gear). To be completely honest, I never really enjoyed it. I did it because it gave good rewards, and that was about it. Pvp in WoW has always been fairly horrible, balance is an absolute joke and most of the time it's all about who can stunlock and obliterate the enemy healer first. I've played a lot of MMOs, and to be honest after playing my first Asian mmo that had pvp actually worked into the game as a core component (most of them do), I wondered how I ever stood the tedium that is WoW pvp, the afterthought that they through in after release.

As for why arena is starting to wither so badly now, honestly I'd say a ton of people have already pretty much laid it out for you. The system isn't very rewarding, the pvp isn't very fun for many people, the hardcore pvpers make an impassable wall of toxicity that few care enough to bother braving through. To be honest I'd say a better question to ask would be what can we do to make pvp and arenas easier to get started in.

Oh yeah, and as much as people like to complain about healers being unkillable, as a healer I find I rarely live long enough to do anything other than eat a couple CC's. The dps artifact traits boosting damage while healer artifact traits giving utility means eventually you cannot keep up.
they need to give more rewards for everyone, including casual busters. 1750ish players should be getting more rewards than 2200 players currently get, and 2200+ players should be getting WAY, WAY more rewards than they currently get. you could get more rewards from 2 hours of LFR using Donkey Kong Jungle Beat b ongos while high on krokodil than one of those south korean mmo gypsies could get from 5 years of top level PvP. club penguin probably has a more rewarding pvp system at this point
i don't do arena because :

A) They aren't rewarding

B) I don't have time to find arena partners to chase after ratings (nor the inclination to)

C) You need to no-life it in order to get high ratings.
12/27/2016 08:42 PMPosted by Nevaehshear
Melee mobility is balanced around mage mobility

Never though about it like that.
12/27/2016 02:15 PMPosted by Groundit
please post why you don't q arena

I don't PvP. Its the same reason I tend to avoid pve pugs in general, I don't like getting yelled at or insulted by strangers when its just a game. Some people take this way too seriously and get out of hand with the general chat screaming "YOU ALL SUCK, GO KILL YOURSELF" why the hell would I want to put up with that? Every few games when its losing, there's someone who needs to point out that other team members are the problem and need to go... well, point taken, won't pvp again.
To be honest I feel like theyre probably happy arena participation is low. They've been ignoring PVP feedback for years now.

Pruning, changing the gear system, removing itemization, fundamentally breaking classes by making insane changes despite the feedback. Ignoring everything that happens on the ptr because "the players will figure out our vision!! "
12/27/2016 02:15 PMPosted by Groundit
The Arena Forums as a whole truly want to know why more people don't do arena,

The last time I played in rated arenas was Wrath
Boring long fights between players ,Add to the fact that 1 loss costs X wins higher up. Inorder to keep winning someone has to lose right??
Never felt rewarding always a cat and mouse game
Now this is a place where a timer is needed not mythic+ lol

Legion pvp as far i have done is Ashran , few bgs and little world pvp. The cc fest is too obvious and hatred for healers and tanks is not helping either
Meh arenas are little more than duels but with pillar humping. I hate duels. It's only natural I'd hate arenas.

I'd rather fight in a bg. Large scale conflicts with a goal are much better imo than humping a pillar while trying to kill a couple of people for "reasons".
12/27/2016 09:19 PMPosted by Fuzzycuffs
The high CR/Exp requirements are what's kept me out.

I'd love to learn the arena side of the game but the people that know it only want to play with other people that know it.

did you realm swap from icecrown??
12/27/2016 02:15 PMPosted by Groundit
Arena Participation is at an all time low, Titles distributed last season are completely bugged, please post why you don't q arena, but please leave hyperbole and etc out of it.

Because it's boring.
The PvP community seems very unwelcoming towards new players who are trying to learn the ropes. Just the impression I've gotten.
Crowd control is out of control. PvP is a frustrating mess of being stunned, rooted, silenced, interrupted, magic school-locked, disoriented, feared, mind controlled, snared, pulled, hexed, and eventually killed.
It seems as though the damage has been done. No honor, no conquest, no gear, no rewards. And now your saying the top pvp'ers are all that's left doing arena? In later expansions lots of ppl would be in the gear grind phase of arenas, ppl in starter gear would usually get rekt. Causing two outcomes 1. The undergeared would keep playing to gear up in hopes to improve 2. The geared would keep playing to smash undergeared players. Now it's all "balanced" and the top skilled players are what looks like are all that's left.

Now it's pretty much like what's the point? I know that I'm not gonna get any titles or mounts. But at least in the past it was a way to get gear and have a bit of fun along the way. Has anyone noticed everyone switched to Horde this expansion? I've faction/server changed all 11 of my toons in past several times....not doing that anymore.

I could keep going and going...but you guys already know...

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