Emergency: Arena Participation

General Discussion
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pvp in legion, including arenas, has the worst reward structure since Vanilla.

I don't mind losing if i still get some sort of reward.

without rewards, pvp devolves into a subset of overcompetitive players.
12/29/2016 11:07 AMPosted by Warwor
PvP, in any game, attracts the kind of people I don't like playing with. On top of that, bad behavior is rarely, if ever punished. Even when the community tries to regulate itself, it gets no support from the admins.

I don't want to play with sh177y people. As much as I enjoyed OW, I simply got tired of the toxicity and quit playing. There's too much PvE content in WoW that I personally enjoy for me to really consider getting into PvP.


It seems to me that bad behavior comes with any multiplayer content, and is not limited to pvp (particularly multiplayer content with randoms who you will probably not interact with again in the future).
Sooo, you made a post based on numbers that are possibly inaccurate/bugged, and claimed that arena participation is low based on these numbers?

Unless I misread something.

Anyway, you should probably wait for clarification before you made this thread.
There used to be a reason to do Arena even if you sucked. I was awful at Arena, but I wanted the conquest badge gear. There is no longer any conquest badge gear. I can level up my honor through BGs and still farm AP and chest rewards and it is more enjoyable for a bad pvper like myself.

Arena requires too much. You need voice chat to play well. You need a partner who can play at the same time as you. Legion has been fun, but now that WoW is more of a solo content game, there are too many logistics needed to play Arena, and there isn't enough reward in trying. And if the pinnacle of arena is to get a title and mount that I have no shot at getting, then I will just play something more enjoyable.
I really enjoy PVP generally. but the amount of CC and stuns and lockouts (nature lock when playing a druid healer for example) for anywhere from 4-8 seconds just sucks too hard to really put the time into pvp. plus the hardcore players in wow - whether pvp or pve - are fairly toxic and really make it their point to ridicule and bully and treat you like hot garbage until you realize 'why the heck am i putting up with this?" and just stop que'ing.

the stun lock, CC mechanics are about half the reason and a big percentage of the player base is the other half reason for me and likely many others to just not do it.
Because I'm an ele shaman.

Have a meatball while I die in 4 globals.

Much fun.
12/29/2016 11:23 AMPosted by Mescyn
12/29/2016 11:07 AMPosted by Warwor
PvP, in any game, attracts the kind of people I don't like playing with. On top of that, bad behavior is rarely, if ever punished. Even when the community tries to regulate itself, it gets no support from the admins.

I don't want to play with sh177y people. As much as I enjoyed OW, I simply got tired of the toxicity and quit playing. There's too much PvE content in WoW that I personally enjoy for me to really consider getting into PvP.


It seems to me that bad behavior comes with any multiplayer content, and is not limited to pvp (particularly multiplayer content with randoms who you will probably not interact with again in the future).


I don't disagree with you, but what I'm referring to is an issue of grade rather than kind. Trolls and other generally unpleasant people exist in every facet of life. In my experience they simply tend to gravitate towards PvP so I tend to stay away.
not going to lie, I skipped to the end here, so this very well may have been said 100 times...

I love PVP and play it often. I'm a casual player who's been trying harder lately to get more serious. I have had some bad seasons but I have been up to 1905 before. the problem I see is that the bulk of people playing 3's today are in the 1400-1800 range. the veteran or high level PVPers will say "2k is easy" well we all have to start somewhere. 2k isn't easy for the guy still learning everyones CD's and defensives, or learning to play his class to its fullest potential. yea, the first time I hit 2k I will freak, but if I got 4 seasons only getting to 1900 while still getting better I get nothing out of it. I get personal gains, personal accomplishments, but nothing physical to display other than a mount that any person can get if they bash their heads against a wall for a season.

We need noob level titles like RBG ranking has. give some weak titles at the more common ratings to give new people something to display and keep them coming back. or even just one more, that an average joe can get if he put his mind to it. the thought process here is that he has fun, he learns, and he has something to show for it. people want to display stuff. gear, titles, mounts, etc... they want physical rewards. and if the bulk of the new guys go 2-3 seasons without getting anything to brag about other than a grindable mount, then why stay? the gear is PVE recolors now, there is no low level title, and the mount is just as easy a grind as old PVE raid mounts.

everyone has differing opinions but one thing is common through a lot of them, the lack of rewards before the "easy 2k" is a big part of the problem.
Well the number one mistake blizzard made this expansion is they made PvP less accessible to everyone. You don't limit the best PvP gear to the best players as it forces the casuals who just want to have fun to join in on serious rated PvP combat to get the best gear against their will. This right here broke the straw for main of the casual PvP players.
12/29/2016 11:45 AMPosted by Thundurp
Because I'm an ele shaman.

Have a meatball while I die in 4 globals.

Much fun.


Ele is one of the better spec at high ratings right now.
12/29/2016 11:48 AMPosted by Warwor

I don't disagree with you, but what I'm referring to is an issue of grade rather than kind. Trolls and other generally unpleasant people exist in every facet of life. In my experience they simply tend to gravitate towards PvP so I tend to stay away.


I guess my experience has differed. I've never had any problems with my arena partners from the past. Unpleasant people I've exclusively found in pug content, whether pve or pvp. Organized content, not so much so (arenas, guild raids, etc).

I haven't seen much difference in the toxicity of those who like only pvp, those who like only pve, and those who like both. Random unrated bgs are for sure awful, but so is lfr. Both in terms of kind and grade.
As long as bro-linka in charge of pvp or Celestalon for class design pvp will remain as garbage as it is.
So frustrated in how they have treated the pvp community. completely unfair to not tell us they changed the metrics. Change cutoffs to arenamate and everything is fine, cery simple.

Sincerely, 2620cr duelist
I fell that there's too much of a barrier to arena play for me as a somewhat casual player.

- If you are new to Dota2 and get destroyed by a hero you can simply pick that hero next game and see what makes them strong / what their weaknesses are. Another good example would be Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2. All characters would be set to max level and receive free max armor in PvP. This allowed you to try out different classes and determine their strengths and weaknesses by playing the game. In WoW your only solution would be to visit an external sources for information about different classes or to watch gameplay from their perspective.

- Simply playing the game won't give me CC timers, interrupt cooldowns, macros for casting abilities on different targets etc. I would most likely have to visit external sources for that as well. Most competitive games I have enjoyed playing, such as Dota 2, Guild Wars, Overwatch & CS:GO offer very narrow possibilities for players to modify their client. This ensures that everyone, newbie or pro, is on the same playing field.

I'm not saying this to take anything away from you arena players. I fully understand that it takes a lot of effort and dedication to become great at it. But it feels to me that the effort would have to at least in the beginning be directed at other things than actually playing the game. Hence why I feel there's a barrier to entry.

In CS:GO I reached the highest rank in its matchmaking by simply playing the game. I didn't look up tutorials or pro gameplay on YouTube, I didn't download some elaborate config to alter my game. Now this might be a total misconception from my part, but it doesn't feel like I can do the same in arenas.

I would be eager to hear any arguments counter to mine. As I said, this is merely what it seems like to me looking in.
Both dmg meter and ilvl thing screwed up everything.
In gw2 you have no dmg meter, you can not inspect players etc. it means NO ELITISM. Nobody is judging anyone and if you dont perform, you are dead.
So you have to do your best.

Crappy dmg meter and ilvl sh.it
12/29/2016 11:44 AMPosted by Darros
I really enjoy PVP generally. but the amount of CC and stuns and lockouts (nature lock when playing a druid healer for example) for anywhere from 4-8 seconds just sucks too hard to really put the time into pvp. plus the hardcore players in wow - whether pvp or pve - are fairly toxic and really make it their point to ridicule and bully and treat you like hot garbage until you realize 'why the heck am i putting up with this?" and just stop que'ing.

the stun lock, CC mechanics are about half the reason and a big percentage of the player base is the other half reason for me and likely many others to just not do it.


So true. At least in a random bg you get moments where you can actually heal people without being stun silence stun stun stun fear dead
12/29/2016 12:20 PMPosted by Redcore
Both dmg meter and ilvl thing screwed up everything.
In gw2 you have no dmg meter, you can not inspect players etc. it means NO ELITISM. Nobody is judging anyone and if you dont perform, you are dead.
So you have to do your best.

Crappy dmg meter and ilvl sh.it


In gw2, how do you analyze your performance to improve? A binary pass/fail system doesn't provide sufficient information for improvement.
It seems like the stricter metric for rewards was unintentional, according to Holinka's tweet ~21m ago.

From the sound of things, the ladder being smaller is expected due to shorter seasons (which is true, to an extent), but the metric for determining rewards being tightened is not.

12/29/2016 12:21 PMPosted by Mescyn
In gw2, how do you analyze your performance to improve? A binary pass/fail system doesn't provide sufficient information for improvement.


Even without systems throwing numeric data at the user, such as DPS meters and gear inspection, there's more available to players than just a binary fail/pass system based on whether or not you lost/won.

Below is just an example, logically working through a 1v1 fight that you lost. Keep in mind that GW2 has stat templates in PvP, so there is no "outgearing" factor.
_______________________________________________________________________

If you lost because your enemy is dying too slowly, there's only a few reasons that could be: your damage is too low, their defensive stats are too high, they have a strong defensive toolkit, or they had support through healing or CC. That basically sums up most causes of an enemy dying too slowly. If it's none of those, you were simply outplayed and need more experience.

Is most everyone else that you face melting at your touch? Yes? Then your damage capability isn't the problem.

Were they facing you alone? Yes? Then third-party support was not the issue. The issue must be caused by a personal factor between you and your opponent.

Are you experienced with their class? If yes, is it possible that their toolkit alone could allow them to survive as well as they did? If no, then the problem is not the toolkit. If you don't know their class, then I suggest researching it and its skills if you care enough to do so.

How was their damage? Was it substantial, or was it a trickle? If it was substantial, then they aren't stacking defensive stats unless the class they played works defensive stats into offensive potential in some way. Refer to the above having experience with their class.

If none of the above is true, then you got outplayed.
_______________________________________________________________________

Pretty much any area of needed improvement can be puzzled out in a similar manner as the above. All that numerical data isn't actually needed, as you can go by general feel on most aspects of combat and still be right most of the time.

It changes a little when you start talking of group performance as opposed to individual performance, but the same logic applies. There are generally a small selection of possible causes for failure, and you can typically puzzle them out fairly easily.
12/29/2016 12:21 PMPosted by Mescyn
12/29/2016 12:20 PMPosted by Redcore
Both dmg meter and ilvl thing screwed up everything.
In gw2 you have no dmg meter, you can not inspect players etc. it means NO ELITISM. Nobody is judging anyone and if you dont perform, you are dead.
So you have to do your best.

Crappy dmg meter and ilvl sh.it


In gw2, how do you analyze your performance to improve? A binary pass/fail system doesn't provide sufficient information for improvement.


Man ilvl and dmg meter brought more bad that good into the game.
https://mobile.twitter.com/holinka/status/814560719072960512

THERES HOPE

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