Emergency: Arena Participation

General Discussion
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I have always been a PvP player dating back to vanilla. In my opinion arenas killed PvP for most people. Pvp ranks used to be based on ANY form of PvP, not just arenas. This made WPvP happen, and made BG's worthwhile. When arenas came BG's became filler for gear grinds, and no longer held any value outside honor points. Pigeon holing people to do arenas for PvP titles and such was a bad move, as it created this mentality of your rating in arena = skill. We all know people who are mediocre who get carried, and I have known many people during vanilla-WOTLK who did not arena,but would face roll anyone in open combat or bg's. I play arenas casually as I do not have friends who play this game anymore, and pugging arenas is cancerous. I played like 60 games last season to 1700ish 3v3 and 1850 2v2 with 40ish games, and I loathed healing every single game. I am sure I could push rating and get higher, but the stress and attitude of players in arena is terrible. I think if they brought back a general rank for PvP as a whole people would flock and WPvP would flourish again.
12/29/2016 02:12 PMPosted by Mescyn
12/29/2016 12:51 PMPosted by Fearmvp
Groundit - you want our opinion, but do not seem to be responding to it. Were you as sincere as you came across to be? You seem blinded by that shimmer of hope tweet.


He's updated the original post multiple times.


Yes, but he has left off some of the most criticized aspects-namely unbalanced comps/classes and excessive CC. Whether he doesn't personally believe they are significant issues or not, it is clear that a large segment of the population taking the time to respond does and thus their concern should be acknowledged.
Groundit seems like a pretty nice guy tho, right?

Jk lol

12/29/2016 11:34 AMPosted by Groundit
12/29/2016 11:25 AMPosted by Mens
is that why u emote everyone btw


idk is an emote enough of a trigger to get u to whisper me after a game that you lost because your ability to land a poly is exactly 0


https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752658353#detail

Toxic af
12/29/2016 04:22 PMPosted by Fearmvp
Groundit seems like a pretty nice guy tho, right?

Jk lol

<span class="truncated">...</span>

idk is an emote enough of a trigger to get u to whisper me after a game that you lost because your ability to land a poly is exactly 0


https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752658353#detail

Toxic af


Almost as though Mens and I have known each for 2 years.

Banter between friends is something that routinely happens on the forums, relax a bit bud.

12/29/2016 04:17 PMPosted by Linnelle
12/29/2016 02:12 PMPosted by Mescyn
...

He's updated the original post multiple times.


Yes, but he has left off some of the most criticized aspects-namely unbalanced comps/classes and excessive CC. Whether he doesn't personally believe they are significant issues or not, it is clear that a large segment of the population taking the time to respond does and thus their concern should be acknowledged.


As for this, I'm editing the top post to reflect things that make sense, as you can see on the first page, the 2nd highest rated post which is perfectly in view, states pvp will be fun when classes are fun.

If you think that needs to be added to the top post, I can do that, but its right there on the first page.

Comps are a known issue, rock paper scissors exists.

As for the cc issue, Arena isn't something that should be a CC-less damage fest. High amounts of cc are fine when given tools to deal with it.

Same w/the healer thing.

Healers right now are the weakest they've been in years, people's opinions from 2v2 matches they have aren't really something that's going to get fixed. 2v2 (as blizzard has said) is not something they focus on when balancing the game.
Relaxz? Did you just assume my mooood?
The biggest problem for me (outside of awful balance) is the lack of reward. In the past we got conquest/arena points and we always had a nice piece of gear reward in sight. Also people use to battleground prior to arena's. As a shaman healer the experience was awful, I just had 5 melee on me the whole game and I could do nothing. If battlegrounds are fun, I believe more people would take steps after that into arena.
B
There's a lot of reasons, the biggest one is that I'm just not good. I get into Arena, I die in the first ten seconds, I scratch my head wondering what happened.

Then there's the rogue nerfs that everyone has been complaining about and I've been seeing in casual BGs, I don't feel very powerful.

Overall, the PvP side of WoW has never been my favorite. It's not balanced. It's not fun. It's especially not fun to be stunned for 5 full seconds, unable to do anything while you watch your health drop to zero quickly. Or to be chain CC'ed with no getting out of it.
PvP in general:

1) Melee meta: best mobility, countless instant cast lockouts and ccs all on short CDs, and with absurb burst where SOME can get 600k+ for a single button press. Plus sustain and good self heals. It's pure mongo most the time.

2) Being a healer is the suck when you get constantly locked out, chain CC'd, and or just plain insta gibbed with very little ways of getting out of harms way. This is why I am almost ALWAYS the only healer on my side now; healers on a whole seemed to have given up.

Arena;

I have hated arena and never ever will like it. It's all about the meta. It's all about stress and I try my best to avoid that, it's not FUN.

RBGs; just like above, being a healer results in getting insta gibbed the moment I press a heal button. Thanks healer must die addons! Again, RBG is not fun in the least.

Casual BGs; this is only place I can SOMETIMES heal and have fun. But then again with all the pre-mades it's usually just like RBGs; I spend more time ressing than actually playing.

Class balance: Melee is meta. Melee has all the tools. Casters on the other hand had many of their crucial spells removed or made 'hard' choices. Like when I used to have base line mass entanglement and cyclone. That and natures swiftness; all stripped. Boo.

Anyways, I still PvP despite it all but only casuals. But the major issue is the reward and the RNG behind it. It sucks. Instead I have to PvE to PvP. How is that right.

W/e. Just letting off some steam. Grrr.
I firmly believe in the "Field of Dreams" philosophy: if you build it, they will come.
If PvP is good, people will play it. If it's not, people won't play it.
Right now, PvP is the worst it's ever been.

Every class I play is boring, plan and simple. My WW Monk's rotation is basically "use the ability when it's off cooldown." When I play Affliction, it's literally just dot everything -> cast UA 5 times -> repeat. My Boomkin's rotation of Incarnation -> Celestial Alignment -> /cast [ability with "Moon" in the title] was fun for a while, but now it's just boring. Classes are just so watered down. The difference between skill caps (lower and upper) is very small. In fact, the difference in rating is more predicated upon understanding what other classes do instead of your own, because your class is probably: build secondary resource -> use secondary resource -> repeat. It's just not fun.

Melee uptime is absurd. Holinka said prior to Legion launching that "high mobility classes like Sub and WW would deal less damage to compensate." Meanwhile, Serenity -> FoF -> deleted from the game. I almost feel bad on my Monk because, once I jump on a lock, I know the lock literally has no way to get me off. I have FIVE gap closers and a ranged stun. Warlocks don't have a single baseline escape. It gets old, after a while, spending the first 2-3 minutes of every Arena surviving an unpeelable melee nukefest just to win after casting UA 5 times the second it's over. Every melee doesn't need a ranged 15scd interrupt and a 5 second stun. They just don't.

Also no rewards. The first month of the Legion Season 1 I had 300+ wins @ 2k-2.1k rating. Got three pieces of 840 gear. None of them were better than the gear I got from PvE. Seriously. !@#$ off.
12/29/2016 04:52 PMPosted by Flôwers
Class balance: Melee is meta. Melee has all the tools. Casters on the other hand had many of their crucial spells removed or made 'hard' choices. Like when I used to have base line mass entanglement and cyclone. That and natures swiftness; all stripped. Boo.


On this note...the fact that a lot of the melee have ranged damage abilities. My BDK has 5 ranged abilities....2 ganks and 3 damage (1 is short range, 1 is longer range and a bleed, 1 requires them to stay in the circle). How is this right? All of them are instant cast and the one can be spammed til I run out of runes. It is so ridiculous and stupid at how mind numbingly obvious a problem this is.
12/29/2016 04:01 PMPosted by Mookei
as it created this mentality of your rating in arena = skill. We all know people who are mediocre who get carried, and I have known many people during vanilla-WOTLK who did not arena,but would face roll anyone in open combat or bg's.

But ratings very likely do reflect skill, mostly. This is a huge negative, as the LAST thing a MMO should do is tell most of its players how bad they really are.
12/29/2016 06:21 PMPosted by Osmeric
But ratings very likely do reflect skill, mostly.


Except for a lot of 2200's buying that carry with real money or gold.
1. Pruning away game play identity
For me, arena died since WOD-pruning. As compared to seasons before the amount of room and clutch to outplay my opponent has tremendously reduced, and hence not fun. That is for extreme composition dependency, turns the game into rock scissors paper.

2. Healer's bane
Healing is extremely not fun since WOD. Without good synergy in a new team, taking two melees at your face for the entire match is atrocious. Rewarding "tunnel the heals" game play, especially at lower bracket is a complete turn off for newcomers.

3. Gear grind
I used to maintain a toon for PVE and another toon for PVP, since composition matters a lot and the two do not coincide. In Legion design, this is impossible, early in the expansion I feel gimping my friend for not having enough AP on my PVP toon. The ways to achieve AP on a PVP only toon is also remarkably harder. The "gear cap" in its current state is way too high for anyone to jump into the game and enjoy. Normalized gear is a lie, everything is now gated behind AP atm. and AP is heavily time gated with AK.

4. Cheaters unpunished
The shear amount of kickbotters, scripters, hackers I faced in WOD is a total killer. Reports were made, but hardly noticed and mostly dance happily with their titles after the season. What the !@#$ is this !@#$.

P/S: Nevermind my lacking of statistics and achieves on a new account. If such matters, I was an arena master for multiple season/expansion
I just don't want to do arenas beyond the 10 that were required for conquest.

Now I feel like I'm forced to for good PvP gear for wPvP.

I play this game for fun and don't play playing serious high rated arenas.
12/29/2016 06:44 PMPosted by Shanamain
I just don't want to do arenas beyond the 10 that were required for conquest.

Now I feel like I'm forced to for good PvP gear for wPvP.

I play this game for fun and don't play playing serious high rated arenas.


No such thing as conquest or honor gear anymore man.

Its all RNG. You can either wear pve gear or have a chance to win pvp gear from wins. But you get duplicates just like boss fights in PvE occasionally...
You'll never see me back in arena. I keep getting the stupid class hall mission for it because I did the battleground quest just before it and I hate it. What's the point to it expiring if it just pops back up?

Why don't I do arena? I used to do arena back in TBC. I had a 3v3 team. My paladin as holy, an arms warrior, and a hunter. We didn't do well but we had fun. The warrior and I made a 2v2 team at one point for a while. I joined a 5v5 team, too, with a warlock friend on my holy paladin, too, but that lasted a week before it disbanded. In WotLK, I quit raiding so resorted to PvP to get gear. I did 2v2 with my brother. We had multiple teams across various toons. We got to like 820 or so rating before we gave up. Why did we quit? I got frustrated when one of us died and the other team would taunt the one still living. It got to the point as soon as one of us died, I'd just leave the match.

Blizzard could have arena award a million gold and mythic raid level gear from the loot box regardless if you win or lose, and I still wouldn't participate. The bad sports are what made me quit. I have somewhere around 250,000 PvP kills across my account. I'm not a PvP noob. I used to have fun with it. But people being jerks killed arena for me. The arguing and people just giving up killed battlegrounds for me. It is unlikely I will ever step foot in arena again. Needless to say, if arena goes the way of the dodo, I wouldn't be crying.
Simply not interested in that type of PvP, the bar for entry has historically been far to high, and while Legion has gone some way to fix that, I just can't get into it after having tried to for some years.
Complete waste of time, the HORRIBLE pvp community along with all the "arena carry" teams, no thanks.

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