Emergency: Arena Participation

General Discussion
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I LOVE pvp but cant stand arenas.

Why?

1.If you don't have the right group composition or team, you simply cannot be competitive at higher levels where the decent gear and rewards are at.
2. Pillar humping
3. Exploiting ranks to face roll lower ranked players for fun/griefing
4. TBH I play a game called World of Warcraft for large scale battles, not sandbox duels.

Its as simple as that.

Also

Its pretty obvious apart from the instanced stat templates for classes, that PvP was pretty much ignored this expansion....this is the result.
I like to PVP from time to time, however I prefer BGs to Arena. I am resto and I just feel dog-piled in arena, while that still happens in BGs it's not as stressful and there are more team-mates to (potentially) help me out.

That said, I really feel a lot less effective in PVP in Legion than I have in past expansions. I feel like I have fewer tools to survive, AND dps classes have fewer tools to help their healers out. I will still do it from time to time, but the PVP rewards just aren't very compelling. I used to enjoy collecting the PVP set appearances and that's not really possible now.

I am giving your post a boost and upvote though because it makes me sad to see this area of the game dying out.
01/03/2017 07:16 PMPosted by Ornasse
I am giving your post a boost and upvote though because it makes me sad to see this area of the game dying out.


This actually happened before in PvP.

The major trend is when ever Blizzard locks the best gear behind a good rating or allows casuals to get smashed, they leave and only the hardcores remain.
01/03/2017 09:08 PMPosted by Shanamain
The major trend is when ever Blizzard locks the best gear behind a good rating or allows casuals to get smashed, they leave and only the hardcores remain.

I dunno about that one, honestly.

Both BC and Wrath had rating requirements for gear and had tons of participation at all levels of skill/play.

I think it's more that the gear isn't particularly great even at higher ratings, class design issues means the gameplay itself isn't very fun, other content (that a lot of players enjoy equally) gives you better loot/ap more frequently, and the barrier for entry via honor/ap is offputting when combined with the previously mentioned class design problems.
01/03/2017 09:22 PMPosted by Tyranova
Both BC and Wrath had rating requirements for gear and had tons of participation at all levels of skill/play.


Ah, the good old days of BC. I had the best PvP on the Isle of Quel'Danas, with the wPvP objectives, and just in the open world in general. I bought myself a decent set of gear with honor that worked quite well in the open world and random battlegrounds. Gear was gated behind rating, but I never was getting destroyed by people in amazing gear much because a small minority had possession of it. In patch 2.4, I had the same gear as everyone else through battlegrounds and low MMR arenas. I used the gear for the best wPvP and random battlegrounds I played in my life.

I spent a lot of my time doing the Isle of Qual'Danas dailies, the Netherwing quest, Skettis, and the world really felt immersive. I was so amazed at the epicness and awesomeness that the BC offered that I was disappointing when Wrath hit because I was having too much fun.

Wrath made major improvements to the game towards PvE, but fell a little in terms of wPvP outside of Wintergrasp. I thought Wrath lasted way to long, and it was the first time I actually unsubscribed.

Cata and beyond, the player base dramatically changed, especially once MoP released. People thought of leveling as a chore rather than an adventure, and find the fastest way possible to max level to begin their path on PvP or PvE. Everyone wants to be overpowered, no one cares about the journey anymore, but rather the end result.

Blizzards started giving out the best gear to everyone during MoP because in Cata, a large portion of the casual PvP player base left. All casuals had to do was win 10 arenas a week, and they were happy because they could spend more time playing other games or having a life well keeping up in WoW.

In Legion, I did over 100 BGs, and felt like I didn't improve much. I'm inspecting everyone, and their in 650+ gear. I see no path for gear progression, and I get destroyed in Instanced PvP, especially wPvP, and I don't see that changing ahead. This game is no longer about leveling, but rather max level, and no casuals want to pay a subscription to get smashed by mythics and high MMR people at max level so they quit. At least in the old days, I could get a decent set of gear that worked well in wPvP and instanced PvP. I would have great gear by now after 100 BGs if this was a previous expansion such as BC.

For casuals, there needs to be a easy and simple path for gearing. The gear needs to at least be decent in wPvP and Instanced PvP. There needs to be a reason to get gear such as fun Instanced BGs and especially fun wPvP for the gear to be used for. Casuals love PvPing just for fun, and only get the best gear so they don't get crushed.
The rewards are to lackluster. In previous seasons you could get some solid gear from pvp. Now it consist of RnG loot with wonky itemization. Its just much more efficient/beneficial/easy for people to just spam Mythic+ dungeons.

The cosmetic rewards also take to much time commitment. For instance the 100 3v3 wins should be broken down into mini rewards after every 20 wins and a final mount/reward at 100.

You also have to grind out:

1. Artifact power/trait
2. Honor talents
3. Mythic+ dungeons

And in many cases you get better gear from the 3rd grind then you actually get from arenas...

TLDR: lack of rewards & no goals for low rated players
I love pvp but I don't do arenas. I'm happy to do skirmishes because no one really cares and it is more relaxed. But as soon as it's rated it gets all serious and unfun.

Also I cannot queue for rated, you have to form a group. I see people in trade chat looking for 1500 mmr or whatever and I have absolutely no idea what any of that means. Of course, I can't ask because that just advertises that I'm a noob and no one would group with me anyway.

Add to all that, only a few specs are viable. So anything outside the fotm classes gets you tunnelled and or flamed.

Oh, and watching youtube videos on arenas is no help at all. They only like to show off fights they actually win. And to be honest, watching it is about as fun as going to the dentist.
No rewards for the average player.

Pve is better, quicker, and more varied in rewards and gearing.

Fotm specs are so dominant you don't even get a chance if your spec isn't op. Like if you get an mm partner in a skirm this season you groan because it's going to suck. Don't even stand a chance funding a parter for rated.
Did 4 arena skirmishes today, given I have the weekly quest. Every single one, opposite team focussed me immediately, CCed for 90% of the time, dead within 30 secs - a min (usually had a chance to get off one cast, maybe got 2 off in one of them).

That's not fun.

Yes, I know I should l2p, (ele shaman is supposed to be ok atm?) but there are not that many buttons I can hit when perma-stunned/dazed/confused/blinded/whatever other variations there are on the 'you can't actually do anything with your character' theme.

I'm also not understanding PvP gear at the moment. Are there any actual PvP benefits to it? It all seems to be worse than my normal gear (and my gear's not that great). Previously I could at least go buy PvP gear and notice it would make my PvP experience better as I progressed. I'm just not sure what the gear even does these days.
Unrelated, but damn Vyadanas I love your mog. You look just like Nathanos. xD
01/03/2017 09:22 PMPosted by Tyranova
01/03/2017 09:08 PMPosted by Shanamain
The major trend is when ever Blizzard locks the best gear behind a good rating or allows casuals to get smashed, they leave and only the hardcores remain.

I dunno about that one, honestly.

Both BC and Wrath had rating requirements for gear and had tons of participation at all levels of skill/play.

I think it's more that the gear isn't particularly great even at higher ratings, class design issues means the gameplay itself isn't very fun, other content (that a lot of players enjoy equally) gives you better loot/ap more frequently, and the barrier for entry via honor/ap is offputting when combined with the previously mentioned class design problems.


BC/Wrath also did not have such extreme stat differences between ilevels.

We cannot bring the system back so long as there's multiple raid difficulties like this.

It's simply too late to revert back to the WotLK/BC system because the game is no long BC/WOLTK.
This wouldn't solve things by a longshot, but Arena would be a lot more interesting if casters were given 1 disarm ability.
01/04/2017 12:01 AMPosted by Frau
This wouldn't solve things by a longshot, but Arena would be a lot more interesting if casters were given 1 disarm ability.

some casters need it
some don't

...spriestneedshelpcough
Honestly, I feel as though Blizzard has been working on trashing PvP. No change from WoD was a good thing. Melee got stronger and casters are a joke now.

I quit when they announced the way pvp gear would be earned, because I knew that as a (hardcore) casual I would not be able to compete anymore. I came back hoping that it wouldn't be as bad. It is that bad. I have no one to play with (no one wants to), I have no incentives (It is ALL RNG based)

I am not fond of melee so I just choose not to play anymore. I got 8 more hours and not enough gold, so I won't be back until I am sure that PvP is fixed.

ITS ALL ACTIVISION, I refused (still do) to buy the new CoD (only CoD i have never bought) because it has the same thing going for it as legion. I will not return to WoW unless MASSIVE changes are made. But if by a miracle Blizzard fixes things, I will be back instantly spending money on useless junk like always.
Wow, a wall of text.

For people who don't want to read all that stuff, let me summarize:

A lot of people do not like to PvP.
https://oddshot.tv/shot/UzpSVzVNSVxIcKx_4NTjRr7z

Arena participation looks great! Will be even better once all the streamers leave for other games and their fan base follows!!

RIP wow
A lot of people do like to PvP.


Fixed that for you.
Too bad Blizzard has done absolutely nothing over the years to evolve PvP with the rest of the game and those players either quit or are very upset. ):
Put utility spells back in the game. Don't go overboard like MOP. And revert the dispel change back to having no CD baseline for all healing classes.
01/04/2017 01:55 AMPosted by Shirt
Fixed that for you.
Too bad Blizzard has done absolutely nothing over the years to evolve PvP with the rest of the game and those players either quit or are very upset. ):


For sure.

I'd imagine plenty of people enjoy casual PvP; random BGs and such. Arena is just a whole different beast that doesn't appeal to everyone.
Honestly - the reason I no longer even care about PvP in wow at all is 1/2 "your" community's fault and 1/2 blizzards fault.

It's one thing for a new player who doesn't experience any PvP during the leveling process of their character to get thrust into a new environment and its another thing to get thrust into a new environment complete with people using bots, speed hacks, (or anyother type of) hacks, etc , all the while generally being asshats. That is completely on "your" community's shoulders especially with the attitude of PvP'ers always being better. Something to the effect of "PvE is so scripted" as they sit there waiting for their addon to tell them when person x used cooldown y (talk about scripted - and that's not counting the bots).

However, you can easily take 1/2 of that blame and rest it on Blizzard's shoulders. They have been begged for years now to seperate PvP aspects from PvE - and yet we're still here getting nerf's and buff's (usually just nerf's) all because of PvP. PvP should be about the skill not the gear (think GW2). If Blizzard was serious about 'fixing' PvP they'd let anyone and everyone who wanted to participate have equal gear, they'd remove the ability for ANY LUA scripts and/or addons while PvP'ing, and they'd do a much MUCH better job at balancing the classes.

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