Legion gear WHY?!

General Discussion
Bust my !@# in Mythic + to receive an 870 ilvl ring from order hall chest. It's worse than my 845 ring i haven't been able to upgrade. Where's the progression?
I get it's frustrating when little things happen, but you gotta put some thought into the bigger picture instead of rushing to the forums filled with tears. Plenty of progression paths, don't be a drama queen.
Lots of options to get gear and it is only not an upgrade if you are min/max your character. To many players think the dps/heal meters are the end all be all to WoW.

I personally do not care as long as we beat the objective.

Rock on!
I feel ya. Did a mythic +13 this week and got a relic in my chest that gave +1 ilvl to my artifact. Feels bad man.
Just out of curiosity, regardless of ilevel ... Why would you want to wear a ring if it doesn't have your two BiS secondary stats?

I ask because your going to be held accountable for your ilevel and if you inflate it with a ring minus any stats that help your dps, you're only going to look bad.

For example, Scenario A) if I wear average 880 gear with no BiS secondary stats, my dps is going to be terrible for my ilevel. However Scenario B) if I'm wearing 840 gear with all BiS stats and only replace gear that has BiS stats, well then my DPS is going to be pretty good for my ilevel. Personally I prefer progression via Scenario B.
12/20/2016 09:10 AMPosted by Koehali
Bust my !@# in Mythic + to receive an 870 ilvl ring from order hall chest. It's worse than my 845 ring i haven't been able to upgrade. Where's the progression?


That's it? I de'd 3 880 items last few bounty chest because 2 where the same drop in legendary slot and the next I already had.

Got blessed today tho ;)
"I absolutely understand from my own personal experiences just how disappointing it is to get loot that isn't optimal for my class. However, while I understand where you're coming from with the secondary stats on this item, no secondary stat is considered by the Blizzard UI to be for one class over another - they're all useful for all classes and specs, even if they're not *optimal*." Blizzard Ticket Response.

Blizzard's stance is secondaries ignore your class specific loot and therefor can infest your loot pool on your once weeklies. Enjoy that stance while you continue to have blizz waste your time.
12/20/2016 09:23 AMPosted by Cartis
Just out of curiosity, regardless of ilevel ... Why would you want to wear a ring if it doesn't have your two BiS secondary stats?

I ask because your going to be held accountable for your ilevel and if you inflate it with a ring minus any stats that help your dps, you're only going to look bad.

For example, Scenario A) if I wear average 880 gear with no BiS secondary stats, my dps is going to be terrible for my ilevel. However Scenario B) if I'm wearing 840 gear with all BiS stats and only replace gear that has BiS stats, well then my DPS is going to be pretty good for my ilevel. Personally I prefer progression via Scenario B.


Nope. Scenario B won't even be considered for any group content other than heroics. You really think people will invite an ilvl 840 to say Karazhan when 20 ilvl 860s and 870s apply? Not happening.
Can relate.

I'm still wearing 855 and 865 rings, even though I have plenty of 890 and 895 rings sitting in my bank.

The problem is that (because of ability pruning, and removal of our Primal Fury passive in particular), Haste & Crit are as close to zero for my spec as they can get.

Blizzard likes to counter with "tanks like stamina!" but the reality is that a Mastery ring from last expansion gives me more health than the 890 crit/haste rings in my bank do.

Blizzard just screwed up with their class design this expansion. (More than usual, I mean. Warlords wasn't peaches and cream, either.)
12/20/2016 09:10 AMPosted by Koehali
Bust my !@# in Mythic + to receive an 870 ilvl ring from order hall chest. It's worse than my 845 ring i haven't been able to upgrade. Where's the progression?


That's what you get when blizzard took primary stats from necks/rings, now deal with it!
12/20/2016 09:32 AMPosted by Grizzlypanda
12/20/2016 09:10 AMPosted by Koehali
Bust my !@# in Mythic + to receive an 870 ilvl ring from order hall chest. It's worse than my 845 ring i haven't been able to upgrade. Where's the progression?


That's what you get when blizzard took primary stats from necks/rings, now deal with it!


It's a lot more than that. Many specs don't really benefit from their "primary stat".
12/20/2016 09:27 AMPosted by Furelise
You really think people will invite an ilvl 840 to say Karazhan when 20 ilvl 860s and 870s apply?

No I don't. Not sure what makes you think what I said had anything to do with applying to a Kara group at 840. All I said is, I prefer progress with BiS gear over non BiS gear regardless of ilevel. And my experience has been great, I apply to groups I meet requirements for or I create my own groups. It's actually not that difficult.
With a difference of 25 ilvls primaries and the increased raw amount of secondaries stats should have a decent chance of making drastically higher level items upgrades. Though, this isn't necessarily the case nor does it have to be. Some stats are better than others, which is perfectly fine. Without making all the stats homogeneous, which is boring and bad, such situations are unavoidable.

But ilvl denotes stat budgets. It has traditionally never denoted the potential power an item holds in relation to the player's spec or class.
Hence, the reason to use ilvl as a measure of player preparedness or potential potency has never made sense to me in the first place.
Nor did I find the decision to make the average ilvl bolder, bigger, and placing it at the top of the character sheet above actual stat values helpful in any regard. It is honestly no wonder low information players have this conflated belief that ilvl=potential potency, end of discussion.
Items with the best stats for your individual class/spec are more powerful than items with not the best stats for your class/spec. And I see nothing wrong with this at a base level.
12/20/2016 09:42 AMPosted by Cartis
12/20/2016 09:27 AMPosted by Furelise
You really think people will invite an ilvl 840 to say Karazhan when 20 ilvl 860s and 870s apply?

No I don't. Not sure what makes you think what I said had anything to do with applying to a Kara group at 840. All I said is, I prefer progress with BiS gear over non BiS gear regardless of ilevel. And my experience has been great, I apply to groups I meet requirements for or I create my own groups. It's actually not that difficult.

I have a hoard of gear piling up in my bugs so my unequipped is 880 while my equipped is only 876. It used to be like an 8 ilvl gap, at least its closer now.

Group finder only lists unequipped ilvl for some reason.
12/20/2016 09:51 AMPosted by Whitecrow
With a difference of 25 ilvls primaries and the increased raw amount of secondaries stats should have a decent chance of making drastically higher level items upgrades. Though, this isn't necessarily the case nor does it have to be. Some stats are better than others, which is perfectly fine. Without making all the stats homogeneous, which is boring and bad, such situations are unavoidable.

But ilvl denotes stat budgets. It has traditionally never denoted the potential power an item holds in relation to the player's spec or class.
Hence, the reason to use ilvl as a measure of player preparedness or potential potency has never made sense to me in the first place.
Nor did I find the decision to make the average ilvl bolder, bigger, and placing it at the top of the character sheet above actual stat values helpful in any regard. It is honestly no wonder low information players have this conflated belief that ilvl=potential potency, end of discussion.
Items with the best stats for your individual class/spec are are more powerful than items with not the best stats for your class/spec. And I see nothing wrong with this at a base level.


Itemization isn't the problem.

The problem is class design.

I used to benefit from Crit and Haste. Now I don't.

I used to benefit from Agility. Now I don't. (It's so small a benefit as to be practically meaningless.)

It was decisions that Blizzard's class team went out of their way to make this expansion that rendered so many stats (both secondary, and often primary) so useless to so many specs.
12/20/2016 09:23 AMPosted by Cartis
For example, Scenario A) if I wear average 880 gear with no BiS secondary stats, my dps is going to be terrible for my ilevel. However Scenario B) if I'm wearing 840 gear with all BiS stats and only replace gear that has BiS stats, well then my DPS is going to be pretty good for my ilevel. Personally I prefer progression via Scenario B.


Reality is C) :

Sometimes ilvl is the bigger upgrade, sometimes better itemization is. It depends on the weights and the quantity of stats on said pieces you're comparing.

There is no singular best answer. Always spitting on ilvl is wrong. Always using ilvl as the only metric is wrong.
12/20/2016 09:51 AMPosted by Whitecrow
Hence, the reason to use ilvl as a measure of player preparedness or potential potency has never made sense to me in the first place.

At least since they made ilvl visual to us, ilvl has absolutely been a good measure of potency of a piece of gear. Prior to Legion, an ilvl upgrade of 10-15 has almost always been an upgrade, regardless of stats.

If there were exceptions, it would have been like 2 specs: Fire mage, Fury Warrior, because crit addictions.
12/20/2016 09:54 AMPosted by Tewa
I used to benefit from Crit and Haste. Now I don't.


What class and spec are you referring to specifically?

Druid?

12/20/2016 09:56 AMPosted by Itharri
Prior to Legion, an ilvl upgrade of 10-15 has almost always been an upgrade, regardless of stats.


This isn't true, for a long while prior to now Dps warriors valued crit for enrage uptime over other stats. Since increasing enrage uptime was the most potent way to increase dps up until a point of DR or near full coverage. Many warrior found a performance increasing upgrade not by simply increasing the ilvl of their gear but by gathering the most crit they possibly could.

Many classes and specs have had similar relationships with stats like haste and mastery over the years as well. Balance druid and Shadow priest come to mind in the haste department, back in the days of spec make-or-break haste caps. It was pretty common in my experience over the years, as a tank, to take the item with better stat configuration over the one with higher ilvl. Defense rating and reaching CTC cap was a wild time for tanks.
12/20/2016 09:10 AMPosted by Koehali
Bust my !@# in Mythic + to receive an 870 ilvl ring from order hall chest. It's worse than my 845 ring i haven't been able to upgrade. Where's the progression?


Is this your first expansion pushing high level gear? Are you familiar with the grind that is a MMORPG such as WoW? When were we ever guaranteed upgrades simply for doing a dungeon or raid? It's always a gamble on your time spent, and most likely always will be. Granted, they offered alternatives in previous expansions, but these alternatives never granted you high-end gear.
Isn't this one of those things being addressed in 7.1.5?

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum