Having a healthy forum in 2017

General Discussion
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Blizzard just tried to simulate the reddit habitat for some reason, I guess they wanted the reddit audience.

Having upvotes and downvotes doesn't add anything of value to these forums, in fact this system detracts from it, and I was against it from day one.

Each and every post/argument should be judged by the merits of itself, not by popular vote.

And another thing.

I remember when the flying debate was raging, and I was banned from the forums because I got spam flagged for trolling because of my arguments against putting flight back into the game. I appealed it and the moderator apologized for what happened, but this system only facilitates antisocial behavior, and I know it was added in the hopes the forums could self-regulate.
02/14/2017 05:35 PMPosted by Wanobi
02/14/2017 05:30 PMPosted by Annastasi
why though? people don't always have paragraphs of deep thought to contribute to an issue. But they read it, they have a reaction to it.

how is "holy cow this is the most stupid post I've read all year" more productive than a -1?

how is "great idea, chap!!" more productive than a +1?it's not.


especially considering the "I agree" and "I disagree" posts might be considered "non constructive" posts under CoC. Makes far more sense to have a simple button to push...let's say a thumbs up if you agree...and a thumbs down if you disagree. It keeps the threads free of those little cluttering posts and frees up more space for those who want to discuss the issues at length.
In its base form in a perfect world, yes.

When "I disagree" becomes "you're stupid" and "I'm a troll", the entire system breaks down. It doesn't happen everywhere, but it happens enough, in important places, that we are aware that it's an issue.
02/14/2017 05:33 PMPosted by Ornyx
The lounge threads are moderated, just like all others. Maybe not in the moments you see them, but you have my word that I see numerous deleted posts throughout all of them. As we've always said, if you see a post that you think needs moderation: report it. Those are looked at very, very often.


I have, trust me. They're still there, at this very moment (I went and looked just to be sure before my earlier post and this one). Hence my comment at the notable disparity.
02/14/2017 05:22 PMPosted by Wanobi
That's not really true at all. Most of the time, the trolls get downvoted to oblivion, while those speaking rationally get theirs upvoted to highly rated. While there exceptions to this (what I'm saying is a general rule, not a universal truth), most of the time it balances out.


I'd agree that most of the time it balances out.

Though, it's becoming a bit of a trite cliche now - that whichever side in a debate is less popular will ALSO be heavily downvoted and ALSO called trolls repeatedly. The three things just happen together all too easily.
02/14/2017 05:38 PMPosted by Ornyx
When "I disagree" becomes "you're stupid" and "I'm a troll",


How do you get all that from a simple thumbs down?
02/14/2017 05:22 PMPosted by Hamstar
Because up vote are LIFE, up votes are POWER! Down votes are obvious trolls and people who lack the vision to understand my posts.


I know this was said tongue in cheek, but there was an article that I read not to long back about people and social media. How they are using it to validate their self worth.

Example : The teenage girl who streamed her friend who was a year younger being accosted (I can't put the real word up because of filters).. She got caught up in it for the 'likes' it was receiving. The teenager was clueless and didn't realize how much of a monster she was for doing what she did. In reality if she is found guilty she faces up to 40 years in prison.

I guess ultimately what I'm saying is that while I believe you said that in jest.. There are people out there who have that very belief and people possibly on these forums with that very attitude.
02/14/2017 05:35 PMPosted by Wanobi
02/14/2017 05:30 PMPosted by Annastasi
why though? people don't always have paragraphs of deep thought to contribute to an issue. But they read it, they have a reaction to it.

how is "holy cow this is the most stupid post I've read all year" more productive than a -1?

how is "great idea, chap!!" more productive than a +1?it's not.


especially considering the "I agree" and "I disagree" posts might be considered "non constructive" posts under CoC. Makes far more sense to have a simple button to push...let's say a thumbs up if you agree...and a thumbs down if you disagree. It keeps the threads free of those little cluttering posts and frees up more space for those who want to discuss the issues at length.


Renaming it or perhaps showing agree and disagree. I deffinetly think posts shouldn't grey out or get burried then. An unpopular opinion is still an opinion

I just don't think the current system works as intended in all situations
02/14/2017 05:25 PMPosted by Wanobi
02/14/2017 05:24 PMPosted by Hamstar
Those schools are government entities in that case..... Though courts have also ruled that speech that interferes with the primary purpose of schools and other student's fundamental right to an education can be restricted.


Not always. Some are private institutions.


Yes but in this case it was a public schools.
02/14/2017 05:45 PMPosted by Miagi
I deffinetly think posts shouldn't grey out or get burried then. An unpopular opinion is still an opinion


I agree with this.

Trolling aside, another player's opinion is no more or less valid than mine.

(even when it's wrong)

(I KID)
02/14/2017 05:46 PMPosted by Hamstar
Yes but in this case it was a public schools.


...and in others, it's been private institutions. My point was that censorship restrictions are not just about the government.

02/14/2017 05:40 PMPosted by Snowfox
I'd agree that most of the time it balances out.

Though, it's becoming a bit of a trite cliche now - that whichever side in a debate is less popular will ALSO be heavily downvoted and ALSO called trolls repeatedly. The three things just happen together all too easily.


Again though, that's not all the time. The people called trolls generally are trolling...a few examples come to mind, but I won't say names. The problem is this looks looking for an exception to prove the rule. I mean, every system has abuses, including moderation...does that mean we shouldn't have forum moderation? Of course not.

Renaming it perhaps showing likes and dislikes. I deffinetly think posts shouldn't grey out or get burried then. An unpopular opinion is still an opionion


You say po-tay-to, I say po-ta-to...

The posts can still be accessed, and I have even spoken out on the rare occasion that it seemed like someone was being unfairly downvoted and buried...but that's been very rare.
02/14/2017 05:49 PMPosted by Wanobi
Again though, that's not all the time. The people called trolls generally are trolling...a few examples come to mind, but I won't say names. The problem is this looks looking for an exception to prove the rule. I mean, every system has abuses, including moderation...does that mean we shouldn't have forum moderation? Of course not.


er.. not sure how you got to a binary choice there in the end.

Every system can use tweaking and improving - both voting and moderation. We can point out the problems without making everything a "we shouldn't have it then?" choice.

Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing here? Pointing out issues with it?
I feed on the downvotes.
Sometimes when you look for deeper meaning in simple things, you'll see what you want to see.

Even if it really isn't there.
02/14/2017 05:51 PMPosted by Líthium
I feed on the downvotes.


You should get a job shilling for some youtubers then and ask them if they will pay you by the down vote.
02/14/2017 05:22 PMPosted by Wanobi

Posted by Brissandy Usually the more rational, thought out, and well spoken a post is on this forum, the more downvotes it has.

Funny because it's true. :P


That's not really true at all. Most of the time, the trolls get downvoted to oblivion, while those speaking rationally get theirs upvoted to highly rated. While there exceptions to this (what I'm saying is a general rule, not a universal truth), most of the time it balances out.


I think that votes are generally a measure of popularity and not at all a good measure of the quality of the argument. Well-articulated popular opinions obviously get voted very highly indeed. But well-articulated unpopular opinions do markedly less well.

I do not believe that (downvoting topics you don't care about) is a common behavior at all. Most people do not downvote out of apathy for a topic. They downvote for reasons that are just the opposite of apathy. Even the behavior you describe is a kind of caring. It's immature and selfish, but the person who goes through and downvotes every topic but their own is certainly highly engaged with the forum, in however a negative way.


I should clarify what I meant. When I say that "they don't care"... well, obviously there is a form of caring there. What I mean though is that the issue doesn't affect them, thus they down vote it because they it's not their topic. Basically, this:

02/14/2017 05:17 PMPosted by Ornyx
Like when Warlock players (luv u) were going through Dev Q&A threads and downvoting everything that wasn't a question about Warlocks. That makes the system serve no purpose.
02/14/2017 05:49 PMPosted by Wanobi


You say po-tay-to, I say po-ta-to...

The posts can still be accessed, and I have even spoken out on the rare occasion that it seemed like someone was being unfairly downvoted and buried...but that's been very rare.


Exposure, A LOT more common in the pvp section..
02/14/2017 01:22 PMPosted by Aarkriidkein
!@#$ off. Just no, alright? No.

Why tho? Because you got butthurt someone downvoted you? People are free to downvote as they please, no matter what. They are allowed to disagree.

This is called free speech and what you are asking is the silencing of free speech.

I mean, some people just can't be bothered writing so they downvote to show their opinion. I'd be someone like that if I wasn't such an English hor.

It's always amusing when people think freedom of speech exists on the internet. You don't have freedom of speech here, you're allowed to say whatever you want so long as it doesn't violate Blizzard's rules, same with Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, or wherever else.

Whoever downvoted my comment obviously doesn't understand the concept of free speech
02/14/2017 05:51 PMPosted by Snowfox
er.. not sure how you got to a binary choice there in the end.


Because that's what the current system's detractor's (including the blue) are doing:

Assumption: current system is flawed and is abused frequently

Solution: should be eliminated (or made all upvotes)

I pointed out the flaw in their reasoning in what I posted before, showing the flaw in their logic.
02/14/2017 05:58 PMPosted by Wanobi
02/14/2017 05:51 PMPosted by Snowfox
er.. not sure how you got to a binary choice there in the end.


Because that's what the current system's detractor's (including the blue) are doing:

Assumption: current system is flawed and is abused frequently

Solution: should be eliminated (or made all upvotes)

I pointed out the flaw in their reasoning in what I posted before, showing the flaw in their logic.


Oh.. there's always three parts to a debate
The far West : KILL IT.
The far East : LEAVE IT JUST AS IS
.. and the middle : "It has some problems we could fix."
02/14/2017 05:58 PMPosted by Wanobi
02/14/2017 05:51 PMPosted by Snowfox
er.. not sure how you got to a binary choice there in the end.


Because that's what the current system's detractor's (including the blue) are doing:

Assumption: current system is flawed and is abused frequently

Solution: should be eliminated (or made all upvotes)

I pointed out the flaw in their reasoning in what I posted before, showing the flaw in their logic.


Not really.

We've been talking about what we think would be better - getting rid of downvotes, getting rid of votes entirely, etc. - but we don't have any definite consensus among our team yet.


No solution has been conclusively arrived at, elimination or otherwise.

I for one am happy to entertain multiple solutions, not just elimination.

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