Legitimately concerned about raid spot

Mage
Let me preface by saying the guild that I run with are laid back and fun and I am no pro. The raid leader doesn't call people out for mistakes and explains every fight just to make sure everyone knows what is going on. They are an all around great bunch of guys/girls. We are now one shotting every boss in normal NH, which is great, and trying to progress in heroic. Let me tell you, this was an eye opener for me.

We hit Krosus last night and starting wiping with less than our usual compliment of players....we had only 16 show up and some nights it is as high as 25. Of those 16, 5 of them usually parse on the lower end of the spectrum. As we were wiping, our raid leader politely said that he hated saying this but under performers were going to be asked to step out. Slowly over the next 10 wipes, the underperformers started leaving on their own. We were now down to 12 people and most of them usually parse 80% or higher. On our kill, everyone stayed alive and we were down to the last few seconds with our back against the wall. I am not sure what the enrage point is for Krosus but it felt like it was close.

When we finally killed him, I was second to the bottom above our warlock. I managed to hit 372k which was in the 68th percentile. Not bad but definitely room for improvement. Here is the log;

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/raxM2n9tJcpq6LHd#fight=16&type=damage-done

The two druids usually parse much higher but they kept running back to soak the circles since there were only two ranged and they had too much downtime because of it. Our group has a few more ranged who normally show up but were not there and usually parse high.

I can certainly practice more but it's not like I scored in the 20th percentile. My dps is not going to go up that much. I am getting beat by 100-200k from players with 4-7 ilvls higher than me. I am worried that as we progress in heroic, I may be asked to step out if things don't get better. I am also very irritated with how slow projectiles combined with lots of haste is making the fire rotation difficult for the average player. I find I am hard casting pyro a lot and need to keep side stepping to cancel it and If I don't wait for my projectiles to hit during combustion, I am munching fireblasts. I also hate that with 50% crit and the two piece, I am still going on streaks of 10 or more fireballs WITHOUT a hot streak. Everyone is done with their burn and I am just starting mine sometimes. It is so sad to look at a demon hunter who has 4 ilvls higher and parses 6% higher and rolf stomps you with 150k more dps. Great for him but sad for me.

TLDR:
Another mage whining that even if I manage to have a great run, I am fighting for the bottom of the dps chart.
Mages are doing pretty bad atm unless ur fire, i can barely put up 500k unless i take my intellect flask and food. They need to stop making specific classes op and make it a balance for all class.
It's near impossible to get no hotstreak in 10 seconds with 50% crit and 2 pc.

You're guaranteed at least one fireball crit every 3 casts, and Fire Blast cool down is about 8 seconds with Flame On if I remember correctly. You should be getting one Hot Streak every 3-6 seconds depending on your haste.
02/16/2017 02:43 AMPosted by Blastinya
I am still going on streaks of 10 or more fireballs WITHOUT a hot streak.

I'll admit to not being an expert in fire mage, but I've played it enough to feel like this is impossible.

When it comes to stressful situations that arise in a progression fight don't focus on things you can't control. You can't control how much dps other classes do in relation to you. You can't control how many times you get targeted by meteor. You can't control who shows up to a raid.

What you CAN control is how you perform given the tools you have. Hopefully a more versed mage can look at your logs, but regardless of the state of fire mage it's hard to look at your logs and not see a lot of low hanging fruit. I wouldn't call parsing grey overall and blue for ilvl a great run. If I had a parse like that I would be looking over rotation, checking talent choices against higher parsing mages, checking trinkets and equipment, and practicing like mad on the dummy.

You should always be striving to improve. You're either hungry, or you're satisfied. You can't be both.
One thing that seemed to improve my dps was gambling hot streaks. With flame on talented you might try just casting fireball/fireblast (or phoenix flames) and get lucky. I haven't gotten Krosus down yet but we just started him last week. My guild is super casual and similar to your raid's makeup. My parses in normal usually run 60+%. Our regulars are parsing well in normal too.

See if gambling those procs helps you at all. The worse scenario is canceling out a heating up proc, but I believe you do more damage weaving in fireblast/phoenix flames than just casting fireball x5. More expert mages than me can probably comment on this.
I don't want to be "that guy" (Oh wait, I love being that guy) but your logs are disgusting. If you're making a post like this then you also should be dissapointing with a 70% bracket percentile on krosus and much much worse on all your other fights. A lot of people don't like hearing this, but you have LOTS of room to improve.

If you actually want some help with your rotation and how to play fire effectively, add Primeevil#1429 and I'll do what I can. I don't pretend to be the know it all mage, but all of my heroic parses so far are 95+ (aside from spellblade at 92).

Hopefully you're willing to take this nicely, since you're making a post I assume you care.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/raxM2n9tJcpq6LHd/vqXfmd9VWR7MaQDN#source=3,18&type=damage-done

Here's a comparison of a kill I had at a similar ilvl to yours. Biggest difference I can see is that you are just missing tons of damage due to missed casts. You're definitely maxing out on PF charges and not aggressively converting your HU procs to HS procs with FB/PF.

Finally, you aren't making full use of the scorch belt. Once you are in execute range, you should be spamming scorches a lot to proc tons of free pyros. You should also save your second pot to align with a combustion cd window sub 30%

Finally, here is a video of me doing mythic krosus as fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxI2YLqzapk
02/16/2017 07:31 AMPosted by Aarÿn
One thing that seemed to improve my dps was gambling hot streaks. With flame on talented you might try just casting fireball/fireblast (or phoenix flames) and get lucky. I haven't gotten Krosus down yet but we just started him last week. My guild is super casual and similar to your raid's makeup. My parses in normal usually run 60+%. Our regulars are parsing well in normal too.

See if gambling those procs helps you at all. The worse scenario is canceling out a heating up proc, but I believe you do more damage weaving in fireblast/phoenix flames than just casting fireball x5. More expert mages than me can probably comment on this.


For PF, watch your pyrotechnic stacks. Here's an example: if you have two stacks and no HU, you can just go straight FBall into PF for a guaranteed HS. You can gamble with one stack if you have high crit but most mages sit around 50% crit so I would not recommend (80% chance to generate HS from FBall > FL with one stack).

There's no reason to gamble FBlast since you can cast it while casting other spells. The only exception would be no HU, two pyrotechnic stacks, FBall mid cast, and capping 3 charges FBlast. This saves you a fraction of a second by putting FBlast cool down a little bit earlier before you finish your FBall.

Watch your gambling cause you need to bank enough FBlast/PF for the next Combustion.
02/16/2017 08:26 AMPosted by Psyfu
02/16/2017 07:31 AMPosted by Aarÿn
One thing that seemed to improve my dps was gambling hot streaks. With flame on talented you might try just casting fireball/fireblast (or phoenix flames) and get lucky. I haven't gotten Krosus down yet but we just started him last week. My guild is super casual and similar to your raid's makeup. My parses in normal usually run 60+%. Our regulars are parsing well in normal too.

See if gambling those procs helps you at all. The worse scenario is canceling out a heating up proc, but I believe you do more damage weaving in fireblast/phoenix flames than just casting fireball x5. More expert mages than me can probably comment on this.


For PF, watch your pyrotechnic stacks. Here's an example: if you have two stacks and no HU, you can just go straight FBall into PF for a guaranteed HS. You can gamble with one stack if you have high crit but most mages sit around 50% crit so I would not recommend (80% chance to generate HS from FBall > FL with one stack).

There's no reason to gamble FBlast since you can cast it while casting other spells. The only exception would be no HU, two pyrotechnic stacks, FBall mid cast, and capping 3 charges FBlast. This saves you a fraction of a second by putting FBlast cool down a little bit earlier before you finish your FBall.

Watch your gambling cause you need to bank enough FBlast/PF for the next Combustion.


Thank you for this. I was wondering exactly why it worked. :)
@Laenia: Great video, thank you for your efforts.
02/16/2017 08:11 AMPosted by Laenia
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/raxM2n9tJcpq6LHd/vqXfmd9VWR7MaQDN#source=3,18&type=damage-done

Here's a comparison of a kill I had at a similar ilvl to yours. Biggest difference I can see is that you are just missing tons of damage due to missed casts. You're definitely maxing out on PF charges and not aggressively converting your HU procs to HS procs with FB/PF.

Finally, you aren't making full use of the scorch belt. Once you are in execute range, you should be spamming scorches a lot to proc tons of free pyros. You should also save your second pot to align with a combustion cd window sub 30%

Finally, here is a video of me doing mythic krosus as fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxI2YLqzapk


Went through your logs and agree with Laenia. I'll also add that your opener needs work. I recommend reading about it here:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752641775
Of course, I am open to criticism and improvement. I always open by admitting that I am not great. I have very few kills, let alone heroic kills so calling me out for bad logs isn't helping.....which is why I admit that I am not great. I will have a look at everyone's advice when I get home. Thanks!
02/16/2017 08:59 AMPosted by Nystic
02/16/2017 08:11 AMPosted by Laenia
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/raxM2n9tJcpq6LHd/vqXfmd9VWR7MaQDN#source=3,18&type=damage-done

Here's a comparison of a kill I had at a similar ilvl to yours. Biggest difference I can see is that you are just missing tons of damage due to missed casts. You're definitely maxing out on PF charges and not aggressively converting your HU procs to HS procs with FB/PF.

Finally, you aren't making full use of the scorch belt. Once you are in execute range, you should be spamming scorches a lot to proc tons of free pyros. You should also save your second pot to align with a combustion cd window sub 30%

Finally, here is a video of me doing mythic krosus as fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxI2YLqzapk


Went through your logs and agree with Laenia. I'll also add that your opener needs work. I recommend reading about it here:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752641775


Oh wow, Have I been doing things wrong. Thanks for the link. I've been casting fireballs waiting for two consecutive crits to start combustion and I've gone on bad streaks where all 10 maddening whispers have been transfered and i still didn't have a hot streak. Also, I always appreciate a Laenia video.
In general fire mage is very, very weak atm, I had to ask my raid leader to bench me so they could down M Chronomatic Anomaly, despite my past of regularly 80%+ parses.

That being said, right now, I believe Wrigglign sinew is a very bad dps trinket for us atm, and I would look to replace that if possible.

I also see you weren't spamming the living hell out of your scorch in the execute range, in fact, I see a lot of gaps in it, sometimes as high as a 10 second gap https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/raxM2n9tJcpq6LHd#fight=16&type=casts&source=3&ability=2948, which I want to believe was for your combustion, but if not, that could be a problem.

Either way, at about 3:30 seconds it says Krossus hit 30% https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/raxM2n9tJcpq6LHd#fight=16&type=resources&hostility=1&source=69 and you weren't scorching for near a full minute of it.
The great thing is, if you've maxed AP on fire, got utility legendaries and just play a lot for the fun of it. If you gear remains the same and you get a few 'ok' relics into your Frost weapon, the AP that you do earn can be dumped into Frost.

I have found Frost becomes very viable at around AP level 42 (equals or exceeds fire at 54) on ST bosses like Krosus, Tril, Star and chrom.

Obviously you don't get the 'padding' fire does but your dps will not look bad in the eyes of the meters.
been arcane since EN so i cant say much for min/max fire... especially 7.1.5 fire i have much to learn.

At the same time, Krosus is ST = frost is strong ST.

we had 4 mages in our Heroic clear last night, I am arcane, and 3 fire mages... 2 of them are working on Frost for ST fights... and they did better with the frost offspec on Krosus, than their fire main spec...

At the same time look at Skorp... fire dominates.

strengths and weaknesses.
02/16/2017 03:33 PMPosted by Kythos
been arcane since EN so i cant say much for min/max fire... especially 7.1.5 fire i have much to learn.

At the same time, Krosus is ST = frost is strong ST.

we had 4 mages in our Heroic clear last night, I am arcane, and 3 fire mages... 2 of them are working on Frost for ST fights... and they did better with the frost offspec on Krosus, than their fire main spec...

At the same time look at Skorp... fire dominates.

strengths and weaknesses.


Yeah, it's just unfortunate that our best fights are the most tedious / easy to get thru. It's not real difficult to pass thru Skorp. Now if Gul'dan was a Skorp-type fight, then we could at least feel useful killing the last boss in NH.

Krosus is a fight that defines Blizzard's weakness on creating bosses. As a ranged DPS, it's our job to collect the Burning Pitches in the far back, which causes our DPS to suffer-- making us look bad. Meanwhile, melee DPS get to mongoloid the boss and ignore half the mechanics. Blizzard should have added more Burning Pitches, have Krosus be non-target-able during the phase, and create a longer enrage timer to off-set the above, so melee dps can be accountable for something. As it is now, playing a ranged DPS is almost like playing a support class, but you can't quantify your support , so we look useless when we're actually making the mechanics happen to prevent wipes.
@Laenia, I noticed you're still pyro fishing with the belt. Is this optimal? I've been unsure for awhile. Because if the pyro doesn't crit, it munches a heating up proc your scorch would've given.
02/16/2017 06:13 PMPosted by Katrìa
@Laenia, I noticed you're still pyro fishing with the belt. Is this optimal? I've been unsure for awhile. Because if the pyro doesn't crit, it munches a heating up proc your scorch would've given.

honestly im not 100% sure what's optimal, i kinda just go with feel. I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere
I already lost my raid spot for mythic Krosus. They replaced me with someone with a better class and I can't blame them. Now I'm in a 1/10 mythic guild sure to be replaced once we get to Krosus. Never lost my raid spot before, I'm parsing well above most mages, but if you have a bad comp and don't have enough carry specs you cant afford to bring a mage.

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