The casual player is playing the game.

General Discussion
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So could Blizzard please just sit down for a second and hear our concerns?

It's true, the average casual player is the one driving the game.

You have created Legion to be so anti-casual it's showing flaws in the design.

1. RNG everything.

This is a big problem in other games that have followed Blizzard's idea of "RNG IS GREAT!" when in reality it's annoying, frustrating and a poorly designed system.
EDIT: As Dreadmoon said: Bring back Reforging to the game.

2. Alt unfriendly - people ENJOY playing other characters.

Believe it or not people do actually like to spend time playing other characters, the whole idea of "you should be concentrating on your weapon & 1 character" has turned away a lot of people who do other activities in the game besides the traditional paths of PvE/PvP. This is NOT everyone's play style.

3. Random legendaries - the word "legendary" no longer has any meaning.

Legendary? I thought this was supposed to be something rare, something earned.. not just given to us at any moment and suddenly the feeling of "OH A LEGENDARY!" has turned into "oh.. the same legendary I already have." The legendary system is a complete failure in design and how it has been implemented.

4. Horrible design on professions.

Not only have you gated the entire expansion behind giant walls, you've also done the same with professions. No one wants to continuously GRIND. We want to feel a sense of achievement and progression but the idea behind professions in Legion is a disaster.

5. Might as well have deleted flying altogether?!

It's true isn't it? You are only allowing us to get flying because of the uproar on the original decision to begin with. I'd like to remind you flying has been in existence since Burning Crusade. It was an accomplishment to get to the max level to be able to FLY. I do not understand the continued persistence to pull flying out from under our feet and lock it away from the game.

The list goes on.. I am sure there are things I have missed but I just want to beg and plead to Blizzard to NOT continue with these choices into the future. You have a chance to turn Legion around and tone down these things to make the game more enjoyable for the long term.
You have created Legion to be so anti-casual it's showing flaws in the design.


Anti-casual, Anti-hardcore, Anti-Semicore.

The system is just completely flawed and broken.
02/15/2017 03:20 PMPosted by Uninstall
You have created Legion to be so anti-casual it's showing flaws in the design.


Anti-casual, Anti-hardcore, Anti-Semicore.

The system is just completely flawed and broken.


Quoted for truth.
02/15/2017 03:20 PMPosted by Uninstall
Anti-casual, Anti-hardcore, Anti-Semicore.

The system is just completely flawed and broken.


The anti-flying crowd is happy so there's that.
Are you !@#$ting me? The game is more casual-friendly now than ever..
Jumping Jesus, people are dense..
02/15/2017 03:36 PMPosted by Luciferi
Are you !@#$ting me? The game is more casual-friendly now than ever..
Jumping Jesus, people are dense..

You're joking, right?
02/15/2017 03:36 PMPosted by Luciferi
Are you !@#$ting me? The game is more casual-friendly now than ever..
Jumping Jesus, people are dense..


I agree whole-heartedly and think maybe the OP is not quite clear on what casual is.

For example, legendaries are very much casual oriented. It's a top of the line gear item that I can get without ever devoting the time to raid on a crazy 3 hour a night, 3 night a week schedule.

Edit: spelling
02/15/2017 03:36 PMPosted by Luciferi
Are you !@#$ting me? The game is more casual-friendly now than ever..
Jumping Jesus, people are dense..


Must be true because... you say so. Hmmm. No.

And you are right about the dense people, you being one of them.
I want solo queue for pvp ranked.
You don't need to do everything and have everything on all of your characters if you are casual.
This depends on how 'casual' is defined.

If a casual player just plays the game and enjoys themselves, then they probably are happy if a legendary drops, not stressed if they don'y have traits to 54 or 35+ in all specs, play alts as they like, etc.. These people do exist; I'm one of them. I'm not saying Legion is perfect or that I like the extent of randomness and dungeon pushes (I think they're a bit overboard), but overall I like Legion. I play alts. I do dungeons and LFRs. I hop into normal raids or mythic dungeons only occasionally. I don't feel the need to max AP or complete emissaries everyday. I play when and how I want in order to have fun. As the title says, 'The casual player is playing the game.'
02/15/2017 03:04 PMPosted by Relodis
So could Blizzard please just sit down for a second and hear our concerns?

As a casual player what is your end goal for your character?

1. RNG everything.

By the same token, there are a LOT of opportunities for RNG, AND many things are available in many places they weren't before due to RNG. The distinction is by playing the game, the character improved organically, rather than deterministically. If you want to get more deterministic, you can buy gear on the AH.

2. Alt unfriendly - people ENJOY playing other characters.

Alts get a quick bonus in AP and the Whistle for free. Ding 110, and 2 minutes later you're AK level 25 and have the whistle and world quests, opening up a vast array of content.

Yea, you have to build up some AP, but at AK 25, that's going to come hard and fast. How much AP do you need to do WQs and farm mats anyways, since that's what casuals tend to do. I mean, what do you expect from your casual alts?

3. Random legendaries - the word "legendary" no longer has any meaning.

What's this have to do with anything? In the past, your alts weren't going to get a Legendary at all, heck as a casual, your MAIN wasn't going to get one. And in the past 2 expansions, they were a pretty long grind to get them. Now, "welfare" legendaries occasionally fall from the sky for just showing up.

So, which did you want, did you want them inaccessible due to RNG mat drops on weekly raids (which were unaccessible to a casual), simply freebies for showing up and AFKing in LFR for 2 months (which some casuals hate as they're "group content"), or the "surprise" of finding them in a chest from a daily or on a random boss? Handed out for little more than being in the right place at the right time. As a casual, is the complain that you get Legendaries at all?

4. Horrible design on professions.

I don't care for the profession system right now, but I will say that my bags are gorged with empty herbs scraps and gold. So I can't complain to hard about them.

5. Might as well have deleted flying altogether?!

And in 7.2 flying returns, and your alts will have an even easier life than they do today.

In WoD, I had my main, who did everything from garrisons to dailies to dungeons to pathfinder to LFR. Then flying hit, and I leveled my alts. My druid rocketed up to parity with a barely functioning garrison, and a boatload of Baleful gear. My Warlock did the same thing. Level (w/flight), head to Tanaan, get gear, leveled tailoring. My final alt leveled up in the last 2 weeks in the invasion, and had better gear than anyone, including my main, all 700 invasion stuff.

And, I'm a filthy casual.

So, again, what is your goal for your casual alts? How much AP do you need? Gear rains down from WQs, and Nighthold LFR will give you anything you want for just showing up.

Yea, professions can be a grind. As I said, I liked professions better in WoD (which "ruined" professions), simply because I could make my own gear and it was actually usable for a period.

But, just curious what a casual is actually expecting from their alts.
Haha! That's a great joke. That it's not casual friendly. Heh.

Oh wait. You're serious? Let me laugh longer and harder. Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha

They already hand you gear and rep for doing for doing 4 quests.

They drop gold like candy.

You're insane.
The problem is that people are perceiving RNG to be a hindrance when in reality it's just evening the field. A casual player has a chance at getting just as good a roll as someone who does some kind of mythic raiding does in reality.

A good example as someone above mentioned is the legendary system. In MoP and WoD, legendary items (The cloaks and rings) were gotten through a very long, arduous grind that was intimidating for someone who didn't have the time to dedicate to raiding on a regular level. This was also achievable through LFR but LFR also had a lower drop rate if I remember.

Now, you can get a legendary from killing a rare mob. There are posts of people who were leveling, not even 110, and they got a legendary they could equip the moment they hit 110. The system there, and involving warforged loot and titanforged loot, all boil down to everyone being able to get upgrades seemingly from everywhere.

If you are a casual player who runs just basic heroic dungeons. You have a chance at getting your best in slot legendary. If you are a person who raids mythics. You have a chance at getting your best in slot legendary. If you run heroics, you have a chance at loot titan forging to very high levels, competitive with raid tiers even. Weekly caches from quests such as the Time Walking one in effect now, you can get tier and warforged items. Hell, you can get warforged tier.

Everyone being on the same playing field isn't anti-casual. One might argue that the time sink is what makes it anti-casual. If person A can devote 20 hours a week to gaming, he has more activity under his belt. Which means he has more chances at said titanforged, warforged and legendary loot than person B who plays maybe five or six hours a week. And in that sense, it's true. Person A is also going to move through the artifact tree faster and competitively have an edge.

But that's where MMO's have always been obviously flawed is the time sink will always benefit the person who has more time to devote to doing things such as farming and what have you. That isn't an argument of casual vs hardcore, that's just logistics. If you go bowling every weekend, you're better than the guy who goes bowling twice a year (or you should be.)

The game is casual friendly in its approach to make it so that everyone, regardless of what you're doing, has an avenue available to you for gearing up. If you cannot raid, which some people can't due to life and what not, that's okay. You have mythic+. If you do not wish to raid or do mythic+, then you have the world, heroics, and LFR and weekly quests, such as the Time Walking ones.

Now on the flipside, RNG annoys a lot of people. It annoys me, I'll be honest. Do you wanna know how many elite trinkets I have in my bags that I can't do anything with? It's bad. And it infuriated me to no end. But I'm subject to the same RNG everyone else is. That makes the game casual friendly. It's frustrating sometimes! But it's casual friendly.

A lot of people say that Legion is taxing on the average player because of how much there is to do. But the reality of it is that "having too much to do" in a game you pay to play means you're getting your money's worth. In WoD, we were not receiving our just reward for paying 15 dollars a month. That was obvious. In Legion, there's no shortage of activities, all of which can reward high level gear. Legion has its flaws, FOR SURE. There's no question about that, they have messed up SIMPLE things.

But the game is friendly to casual players. It's the community that isn't. Mechanically? The game tries to be inclusive to everyone. It's the community that tries to keep casuals out of things like mythic+ when in reality, Joe Shmoe could play for 3 hours a week, get lucky with gear, learn how to play his class reading a guide, get some practice in and do better dps than some of the raiders if he got some warforged and titanforged loot.
02/15/2017 03:36 PMPosted by Luciferi
Are you !@#$ting me? The game is more casual-friendly now than ever..
Jumping Jesus, people are dense..


Sometimes people should keep quiet and appear ignorant, rather than open one's mouth and remove ALL doubt....
I gotta tell ya, this game is more casual now than ever.

What you are experiencing is the game is absolute garbage. More so than it's ever been.

There used to not be the ability to do daily quests and get all this gear, in fact, in Vanilla I was lucky to get through a dungeon... much less Molten Core.

Hell, I PvPd instead, was easier for casual players to get gear that way than it was to try and raid.

Your heart is in the right place but your reasons are not sound, assuming you are comparing it to history of the game.
I am the epitome of the super casual (being that I play a MAXIMUM of 10 hours a week) and I'm still having a really good time, so I wholeheartedly disagree.

RNG? This has always been around, literally nothing has changed. If anything, things have gotten better - in terms of loot, you can now look up the adventure guide, see which boss drops a piece that you need, and specifically target that boss for a re-roll if you didn't get loot. This was unheard of when I started playing.

Alt unfriendly? I have two alts with maxed out AK and finished class campaign. Sure, they are only ilvl 820, but that's because I choose not to play them much.

Random legendaries? These are basically the old epics with sweet procs that would be random drops in previous expansions, only painted orange and with us knowing what content you are more likely to get one from.

Horrible profession design? Having an actual reason to go into dungeons rather than just getting to the minimum ilvl required to get into harder content is awesome. I've always liked dungeons, but beyond a certain point they're pointless in previous expansions. Plus, being able to get more efficient recipes just by using the recipe you have? That's pretty cool. It means that you can make what you want, and the more you make the more likely it is you can make it with less mats.

And flying? I will admit, this is a topic I am somewhat conflicted on. As a mount collector, I love showing off my flying mounts, but they don't look as cool while they are on the ground. Having said that, removing flying does open up the potential design space for the developers, in the same way that adding it did in the first place. You can't implement a quest to race an NPC to an objective if the player can just mount up and get there as the crow flies.
02/15/2017 03:36 PMPosted by Luciferi
Are you !@#$ting me? The game is more casual-friendly now than ever..
Jumping Jesus, people are dense..


............................

casual has different meanings per individual players, I am very casual, I love questing, exploring, gathering and crafting but I have ZERO interest in running any kind of instanced content, content that used to be considered for the end gamers.

I want to quest, explorer, gather and craft and take to the skies to do more of the same but w/o 2 dungeons, w/o a raid boss I will not be able to fly. I want to gather and craft but to merely max my professions I either must run rng based dungeons hoping for rank 3 to drop or spend months doing a one time per month profession monthly or I don't max professions.

This game has for me departed completely from the game I loved, enjoyed, smiled at and played for over a decade and has been re-designed to by Blizzard to "REQUIRE" varied aspects of the game.

Was bad enough they decided that to fly

all questing required
all exploration, required
100 of this required
100 of that required
6 of those reps required
9 of these reps, required
2 dungeons, required
1 raid boss, required
part 1 required
part 2 required

and now, they feel they need to suggest "friends of friends", I can only surmise they don't think players are capable of playing in a way that is fun for the player and now we are incapable of making friends w/o their help as well, for some, may work, for others, it wont, my family is on the side of "wont", at 57 yrs old, I don't need to be told what to play, how to play and how many of this and that to play and I don't need them suggesting friends so they are welcome to do as they please with their game and my family is welcome to take our monies else where.
Your complaints make no sense.

How is RNG everything any more anti-casual than anti-anyone else? It's annoying for everyone.

How is the game alt-unfriendly for casual players? You certainly don't need 54 points in your artifact weapon to do well in casual content. Giving people a path for progression if they choose to invest in one character to the exclusion of alts doesn't automatically mean that people who choose the opposite can't play the game.

How are random legendaries anti-casual? This is similar to your complaint about RNG.

Professions, not my favorite this expansion. WoD was the worst, though. Blech. Anyway, the current incarnation doesn't really seem particularly anti-casual. You can get all the recipes fairly easily. Higher ranks can be a pain, but they're not really necessary, and often depend (again) on RNG. I don't go to casinos, I'm not sure why Blizzard thought I wanted to.

Flying anti-casual? Satisfying the requirements is not difficult, and by the time it comes out you will have had 3x the amount of time you'd have needed to complete the first part even if you were playing no more than a couple hours a week. I do think it's a little silly to wait until basically the end of expansions to add flying in and makes me wonder what the real point is, but I'm not sure how it's "anti-casual" specifically.

Maybe this was just a troll thread. I don't know.
This is probably an annoying time for a reminder that Legion has only been out for 5 /12 months.

The next expansion isn't rolling around for a very, very, very long time.

Unless you're in competition for World- or Realm-first achieves, every single game-related deadline you give yourself doesn't need to actually exist.

Relaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax. Nothing in this game is worth getting stressed out about.

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