[7.2] Balance Druid: Feedback

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03/19/2017 12:33 AMPosted by Intervención
I just don't undersant why remove the haste from Starfall. Is just unnecesary.

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Because having a way to be slightly competitive in burst aoe doesn't fit their vision of the spec.

The problem is they don't have a vision for this spec. The spec doesn't have any strengths and is weak at everything. It used to be a dot spec. We used to be THE dot spec. Our current dots are garbage unless they're buffed by starfall.
So then we apparently became a turret spec. But encounters have way too much movement for that. Now we're somewhere between a weak dot spec that drops an aoe reticle and a weak turret spec. The game has stronger alternatives to both brought by other classes. Why even have Balance druids in the game?
I guess it falls back to the comments that Watcher made about balance druids and M+. Balance druid damage is acceptably low because we bring utility. Apparently having innervate is calculated into the spec power coefficient in Bliz's "internal number testing."
Take innervate, give me back my boomshrooms.
So one of our new traits, wax and wane is basically useless.

Let's say by some miracle you always have 5 stacks.

So 25% increase. You refresh your moonfire every 22 seconds.

Thats 25% of moonfires initial damage every 22 seconds. My moonfires deal around 80k initial damage (901 equiped ilvl).

Thats around 20k extra damage every 22 seconds, or around 0.9k dps increase.

Simmed damage is around 650k ST, so in ST this gives me a whopping 0.13% damage increase.

That's what? like 30 versatility? But without the heal benefit versatility grants us. Oh and thats only if you don't use Nature's Balance. And by some miracle you manage to have 5 stacks. If those stacks actually stay for less than 22 seconds, the dps increase will be 0% here too.

What am i missing here? Best case scenario this trait is worth 30 vers and average

so was this meant to fix our movement problems?
I think wax and wane is there solely for the purpose of taking up the spot before our final gold trait. I really cant think of another purpose for that trait.

Why doesnt innervate give us a 10% haste buff too?
03/27/2017 01:11 PMPosted by Zandrasia
So one of our new traits, wax and wane is basically useless.

Let's say by some miracle you always have 5 stacks.

So 25% increase. You refresh your moonfire every 22 seconds.

Thats 25% of moonfires initial damage every 22 seconds. My moonfires deal around 80k initial damage (901 equiped ilvl).

Thats around 20k extra damage every 22 seconds, or around 0.9k dps increase.

Simmed damage is around 650k ST, so in ST this gives me a whopping 0.13% damage increase.

That's what? like 30 versatility? But without the heal benefit versatility grants us. Oh and thats only if you don't use Nature's Balance. And by some miracle you manage to have 5 stacks. If those stacks actually stay for less than 22 seconds, the dps increase will be 0% here too.

What am i missing here? Best case scenario this trait is worth 30 vers and average

so was this meant to fix our movement problems?


Is it supposed to affect the dot portion? Could be bugged, these devs have repeatedly shown incompetency all expansion.
Wax and Wane states direct damage explicitly.

Innervate doesn't grant the Moonkin Haste because then it would be a DPS cooldown and that isn't the intended use of the spell.

Also W&W is ~0.04% on Multi-Target. lol
W&W got a bit of love...
http://www.wowhead.com/news=261765/march-29-hotfixes-nighthold-bug-fixes-broken-shore-building-costs-class-trait-tu

From 5% to 15% and also affects Sunfire.
03/29/2017 10:09 PMPosted by Intervención
W&W got a bit of love...
http://www.wowhead.com/news=261765/march-29-hotfixes-nighthold-bug-fixes-broken-shore-building-costs-class-trait-tu

From 5% to 15% and also affects Sunfire.


still horrible.
its a start but it needs a complete redesign
wax and wane should be changed to something that effects starsurge. Call it Collapsing Star and give starsurge a dot applied to it when it hits a target dealing (insert) % damage.

just a thought.
Apparently Wax and Wane works weird with Stellar Empowerment, making Moonfire do like 1m damage per cast >_>
Trait is still really bad.
03/31/2017 06:42 AMPosted by Uperior
Apparently Wax and Wane works weird with Stellar Empowerment, making Moonfire do like 1m damage per cast >_>


it will last a few days tops. still horrible. unless you like a ST spec where you spam moonfire
03/31/2017 11:26 AMPosted by Zan
03/31/2017 06:42 AMPosted by Uperior
Apparently Wax and Wane works weird with Stellar Empowerment, making Moonfire do like 1m damage per cast >_>


it will last a few days tops. still horrible. unless you like a ST spec where you spam moonfire


Not disagreeing; it shows just how AWFUL our ST is atm because I can pull regular dps to match other people because of a BUG :/
Wax and Wane: Best we can tell so far, there is no bug, simply a combination of two large multiplicative bonuses (Wax and Wane and Stellar Empowerment). Our goal was to make Wax and Wane, which we understand is weak, as strong as we could without causing any degenerate rotations such as single-target Moonfire spam. That was also the reason for adding Sunfire even though the tooltip will be slightly off until 7.2.5. But even at current tuning of Wax and Wane (post-buff) the incentive for a degenerate Moonfire-spam rotation is too high, as people are observing.

In an upcoming hotfix, we're going to further increase Wax and Wane's bonus, but also make Stellar Empowerment not buff the initial damage of Moonfire, Sunfire, and Stellar Flare. We're doing this not only because it's the most convenient way of solving the new Wax and Wane problem, but also because we actually think it makes the most sense long-term for what Stellar Empowerment should be. The intent of Stellar Empowerment is to buff your ticking DoTs while you AoE with Starfall, not to encourage spamming instant DoT casts during Starfall.

Edited for accuracy
03/31/2017 02:44 PMPosted by Sigma
That was also the reason for adding Sunfire even though we can't change the tooltip until 7.2.5
I thought you were able to hotfix tooltips now? Wasn't that a big thing during Legion's launch?
I was glossing over the details--it would be possible in a sufficiently important case (the one you mention was adding a new talent, Cavalier). Wax and Wane not mentioning that it buffs Sunfire is not a huge problem. Anyway, that was an aside--main point was that adding Sunfire to the benefit was meant to double the value of the trait to get it closer to where it should be, and we were fine doing it immediately.
So do the devs feel like our ST is still fine atm excluding bugs and unintended interactions with the new traits?
03/31/2017 02:57 PMPosted by Ifeanychukwu
So do the devs feel like our ST is still fine atm excluding bugs and unintended interactions with the new traits?


what he said.

especially on movement fights relative to other casters.
#Degeneratekin

at least as far as ST fights go
03/31/2017 02:56 PMPosted by Sigma
I was glossing over the details--it would be possible in a sufficiently important case (the one you mention was adding a new talent, Cavalier). Wax and Wane not mentioning that it buffs Sunfire is not a huge problem. Anyway, that was an aside--main point was that adding Sunfire to the benefit was meant to double the value of the trait to get it closer to where it should be, and we were fine doing it immediately.
Makes sense, I must have assumed based on the excitement from 7.0 that it would have become a routine part of hotfixes rather than an emergency tool, thanks for the clarification.

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