“It’s Just a Cosmetic Appearance” 3

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03/27/2017 08:39 PMPosted by Rocxus
Take Blizzcon for example, its one thing to buy a goodie bag, its another thing to actually go there and get the other things you could get that aren't available outside the convention.
I can get my friends who plan to go to buy things back for me. I can also buy many of them on eBay after. Do people cry about those who bid on these items on eBay because somehow these buyers cheapen their experience?

What really is priceless is the memory of you actually being there. In WoW, they give you something called an achievement with a date stamp to remind you of this profound memory :)
I don't see how deleting a character I decided to use my boost for buying Legion has to do with that. I decided I wanted a Lock cause I play this toon more than my others. I just wanted another toon to play incase I either got bored of farming AP on my mage or if I wanted to try another character.

You think this stuff should be limited yet you don't see any irony in going into old content to get other stuff you want.

03/27/2017 08:45 PMPosted by Pouncey
Achievements have dates on them.

They could also introduce "Ahead of the Curve"-style achievements for people who unlock the skins and tints during Legion.
03/27/2017 08:39 PMPosted by Rocxus
Take Blizzcon for example, its one thing to buy a goodie bag, its another thing to actually go there and get the other things you could get that aren't available outside the convention.


Welcome to the year 2017, where you can buy any of the convention swag you want without ever having to go to Blizzcon thanks to the power of the internet.
03/27/2017 08:40 PMPosted by Troyryan
03/27/2017 08:35 PMPosted by Rocxus
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Because getting better gear makes me stronger? Getting the better legendary combination makes the difference in how much damage I do? Cause that's what this game's end game is about? Getting gear and getting stronger.


This game is also about dressing up your virtual avatar. The desire to collect as many appearances as possible comes from wanting to have options to dress up my virtual doll the way I like, so I look awesome to myself. After all, I am the person who has to stare at this dude 100% of the time I play this game.


I would call that a feature to this game.
03/27/2017 08:50 PMPosted by Rocxus
I would call that a feature to this game.
I would call raiding—and every aspect of this game: questing, leveling, flying, dungeons, holidays, micro holidays, talent system, honor leveling, etc—a feature to this game, too.
03/27/2017 08:22 PMPosted by Draxiss
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Well I'll probably never get you to admit that the superficial measure to make something APPEAR BETTER, MORE ATTRACTIVE, or MORE IMPRESSIVE, extends beyond one's own satisfaction. You also didn't address why I'm capable of respecting other people's time-sensitive accomplishments and you aren't.

But ok, the ONLY thing i REALLY want you to address in this post is this: Why is your desire to have every appearance available to you more valid than my wish of having a few time-restricted rewards?


I object to your reasoning because it revolves around the necessity to feel special by having things that other people do not, regardless of the cost to other areas of interest, such as, for example, "transmog". You are therefore being selfish because achievements are a thing that exist for your exact need, but you are ignoring them because no one cares. You are a selfish attention !@#$% and nothing more.

Your equivocation is also not winning you any points with me.


I don't even agree i'm being "selfish" (I had to play with a group of friends to accompish them, a group of friends I've developed real friendships with over 12 years), but for arguements sake let's say that i selfishly want a few time-sensitive rewards in WoW that show off the achievements I accomplished while it was difficult. You haven't demonstrated how me acting in my self-interest is any more selfish than wanting access to everything.
You write some condescending post reciting definition to me and accuse me of equivocation. Feel free to point that out.
03/27/2017 08:50 PMPosted by Rocxus
I would call that a feature to this game.
I would call raiding—and every aspect of this game, questing, leveling, flying, dungeon, holidays, micro holidays—a feature of this game, too.


Well yea, but you transmog is a minor feature that really does no impact on how your character develops like leveling, questing, doing dungeons, and even raiding does. If transmog was on the development level as what Reforging was, then yes. But since its just a cosmetic feature, its minor. It does make your gameplay more engaging though.
03/27/2017 08:58 PMPosted by Rocxus
Well yea, but you transmog is a minor feature that really does no impact on how your character develops like leveling, questing, doing dungeons, and even raiding does. If transmog was on the development level as what Reforging was, then yes. But since its just a cosmetic feature, its minor. It does make your gameplay more engaging though.
Just because you don’t care about one aspect of the game does not mean other people don’t. And xmog has a huge gold market. I wouldn’t call it “a minor feature”. Let’s see how many people would throw a fit if Blizzard removed it. I would bet it’d be more than if they would remove Mythic raiding.

I don’t care about pet battles or fishing. But I have a friend who’s only goal this expansion is to get the fishing artifact max out. He plays maybe 30 min every couple of weeks. He’s paying the sub just like everyone does. Just because I hate fishing doesn’t mean fishing is somehow less important.
...I would call raiding—and every aspect of this game, questing, leveling, flying, dungeon, holidays, micro holidays—a feature of this game, too.


Well yea, but you transmog is a minor feature that really does no impact on how your character develops like leveling, questing, doing dungeons, and even raiding does. If transmog was on the development level as what Reforging was, then yes. But since its just a cosmetic feature, its minor. It does make your gameplay more engaging though.


It's a minor feature to -you- and you don't speak for everyone. To some people this feature is more important than other features in the game. It might not have an impact on helping you kill things but it can have a huge impact on your enjoyment of the game.
03/27/2017 08:34 PMPosted by Troyryan
03/27/2017 08:22 PMPosted by Draxiss
But ok, the ONLY thing i REALLY want you to address in this post is this: Why is your desire to have every appearance available to you more valid than my wish of having a few time-restricted rewards?
What do you think is so special about these time restricted rewards? Is it because not everyone has them? If that’s the reason, doing the most difficult content currently available—mythic raids, high rating PvP—also gives very exclusive rewards that few people have access to when the content is still current.

For these people who finish the most challenging content in game, they will always have stream of the latest, and the most prestigious, items and looks. Making previously prestigious items available to other players after some delay removes nothing from these most cutting edge players as by then they will have access to even newer items/looks.

On the other hand, removing existing items does remove items/looks from players who may not be subscribed at the time for any reasons—personal, career, family, whatever, which shouldn’t need to be explained. By the time these players acquire these items, they will have been outdated.

Lastly, many of the items in question aren’t really difficult at all to acquire. Case in point, the base appearance and color of Ashbringer. It’s purely a quest reward. But it’s the most iconic and significant weapon for any retribution paladin. It’s prestigious not because of the difficulty of how it’s obtained, but because its place in lore.


I'm not even making an argument against you having access to the vast majority of the artifact appearances, because I actually care that the game is enjoyable for you. I brought up the example of just making m+15 and the new scenario ones in 7.2 time-sensitive and the other poster says, "Why should we have to compromise." Why are you all allowed to articulate a subjective desire for how you want the game to be, but the other side isn't? I've missed out on things because I wasn't subbed to the game; why am I alright with players having something I don't have and you all aren't?
...

I object to your reasoning because it revolves around the necessity to feel special by having things that other people do not, regardless of the cost to other areas of interest, such as, for example, "transmog". You are therefore being selfish because achievements are a thing that exist for your exact need, but you are ignoring them because no one cares. You are a selfish attention !@#$% and nothing more.

Your equivocation is also not winning you any points with me.


I don't even agree i'm being "selfish" (I had to play with a group of friends to accompish them, a group of friends I've developed real friendships with over 12 years), but for arguements sake let's say that i selfishly want a few time-sensitive rewards in WoW that show off the achievements I accomplished while it was difficult. You haven't demonstrated how me acting in my self-interest is any more selfish than wanting access to everything.
You write some condescending post reciting definition to me and accuse me of equivocation. Feel free to point that out.


I'm fine with you having that opinion but I disagree with it. If you locked out those ones at what point do you stop? Pvp'ers might chime in and want to feel special too, or the people who got hidden their appearances. You're wanting to base it off what suits you because you wont have to worry about getting the ones you personally want in time.

Saying "I want these available for everyone." isn't selfish.... saying "I don't want people to have access to my weapon later." clearly is.
03/27/2017 09:02 PMPosted by Nareiko
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Well yea, but you transmog is a minor feature that really does no impact on how your character develops like leveling, questing, doing dungeons, and even raiding does. If transmog was on the development level as what Reforging was, then yes. But since its just a cosmetic feature, its minor. It does make your gameplay more engaging though.


It's a minor feature to -you- and you don't speak for everyone. To some people this feature is more important than other features in the game. It might not have an impact on helping you kill things but it can have a huge impact on your enjoyment of the game.


And that is completely fair. I hope they enjoy the game however they want. Who am I to judge. (In before but you are judging people)

Just because you don’t care about one aspect of the game does not mean other people don’t.

I don’t care about pet battles or fishing. But I have a friend who’s only goal this expansion is to get the fishing artifact max out. He plays maybe 30 min every couple of weeks. He’s paying the sub just like everyone does. Just because I hate fishing doesn’t mean fishing is somehow less important.


I mean I hope he enjoys the game how he wants. I just look at everything how it is. So I understand how Blizzard is treating this game. People maybe not agree with it, but that's how it is. And Blizzard has every right to change it later. So everyone here complaining, Blizzard may actually decide to change it.
I'm not even making an argument against you having access to the vast majority of the artifact appearances, because I actually care that the game is enjoyable for you. I brought up the example of just making m+15 and the new scenario ones in 7.2 time-sensitive and the other poster says, "Why should we have to compromise." Why are you all allowed to articulate a subjective desire for how you want the game to be, but the other side isn't? I've missed out on things because I wasn't subbed to the game; why am I alright with players having something I don't have and you all aren't?
Don’t paint everything with the same brush.

I personally would be fine with a compromise as I can understand both sides especially when it comes to things like solo challenge (also because I don’t think we all understand what difficulty they’re at yet); keystone master (on one hand, this is a feat, but on the other, the gear available now has made this much easier to obtain than it was, say, a couple of or a few months ago).

I have everything in the valorous row (the one gated by Balance of Power) unlocked on 3 classes so far, and if they decide to make that row account wide, or keeping it in game post Legion, or restricting it to Legion, I personally wouldn’t feel too strongly one way or the other. But I wouldn’t object to them regardless on which one (or the combination of any) of the 3 directions they end up deciding.

If it were up to me though, I would leave everything in game. I personally have been on both sides of the fence too many times. At least to me, it feels more disappointing and defeating to know I can no longer obtain an item only because I wasn’t subbed at a time, than to see other new comers waltz in and get stuff from outdated content I had to bang my head on for weeks to overcome when it was current. At least with the latter, they really don’t take away anything from me; but the former, it doesn’t matter how much effort and time I put in, or how much better I get, my inability to get certain items is simply due to not being there at the right time.
03/27/2017 09:08 PMPosted by Nareiko
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I don't even agree i'm being "selfish" (I had to play with a group of friends to accompish them, a group of friends I've developed real friendships with over 12 years), but for arguements sake let's say that i selfishly want a few time-sensitive rewards in WoW that show off the achievements I accomplished while it was difficult. You haven't demonstrated how me acting in my self-interest is any more selfish than wanting access to everything.
You write some condescending post reciting definition to me and accuse me of equivocation. Feel free to point that out.


I'm fine with you having that opinion but I disagree with it. If you locked out those ones at what point do you stop? Pvp'ers might chime in and want to feel special too, or the people who got hidden their appearances. You're wanting to base it off what suits you because you wont have to worry about getting the ones you personally want in time.

Saying "I want these available for everyone." isn't selfish.... saying "I don't want people to have access to my weapon later." clearly is.


Here's the thing; you have the same point of access to these things as I do.

PVPers DO HAVE REWARDS LIKE THIS. Gladiator? Season specific gladiator? Gladiator mount? 2400+Tabards. I have never gotten gladiator before, that would be a cool thing to accomplish, but I would never suggest that I SHOULD have a season 2 netherdrake or title, simply because I want it and time has passed. That detracts from the people who put in the time and effort to get it.

You're acting like I just arbitrarily chose m+15 and 7.2 scenarios. I'd like a few of the more difficult achievements during that expansion to remain tied to it.

But at no point have any of you addressed why you aren't alright with not having things others have and I am. Being able to differentiate yourself by some metric in MMOs matters, whether you like it or not.
03/27/2017 07:42 PMPosted by Rocxus
Also another question: How come people aren't complaining about the title "the Scenaturdist" ?


Sounds dumb.

*looks at wowhead*

Is dumb.

That's why.
Here's the thing; you have the same point of access to these things as I do.

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I’m sorry. When I started reading your posts at least I respected your opinion. But your last few posts just seem like a immature, childish kid crying because nobody on the playground wants to play with him.

I’m sure Blizzard has many more qualified experts than me, but my understanding from a few psych lessons I took in college is that people have much higher tendency to quit and give up when they feel hopeless, not when they feel annoyed because someone else wears the same dress to the same party as them.

Removing items causes players to feel defeated and disappointed, since there is no way to obtain said items anymore: Hopelessness.

Seeing someone who rides the same mount or using the same xmog set as you: Girl with high school level maturity annoyed because her best friend wears the same dress as her.
...

I'm fine with you having that opinion but I disagree with it. If you locked out those ones at what point do you stop? Pvp'ers might chime in and want to feel special too, or the people who got hidden their appearances. You're wanting to base it off what suits you because you wont have to worry about getting the ones you personally want in time.

Saying "I want these available for everyone." isn't selfish.... saying "I don't want people to have access to my weapon later." clearly is.


Here's the thing; you have the same point of access to these things as I do.

PVPers DO HAVE REWARDS LIKE THIS. Gladiator? Season specific gladiator? Gladiator mount? 2400+Tabards. I have never gotten gladiator before, that would be a cool thing to accomplish, but I would never suggest that I SHOULD have a season 2 netherdrake or title, simply because I want it and time has passed. That detracts from the people who put in the time and effort to get it.

You're acting like I just arbitrarily chose m+15 and 7.2 scenarios. I'd like a few of the more difficult achievements during that expansion to remain tied to it.

But at no point have any of you addressed why you aren't alright with not having things others have and I am. Being able to differentiate yourself by some metric in MMOs matters, whether you like it or not.


Like I agree with this. And I think I know why people don't complain about it. Its harder to get these cosmetics over the PvE ones. But again, why don't people complain that these can't be obtained later AFTER those seasons end?

Think of each expansion as a "season". Better yet, think of the Artifact appearences as a seasonal reward. You have until the end of the expansion or "season" to acquire them.
03/27/2017 09:39 PMPosted by Troyryan
Here's the thing; you have the same point of access to these things as I do.

<snipped because content adds no redeeming value to discussion>
I’m sorry. When I started reading your posts at least I respected your opinion. But your last few posts just seem like a immature, childish kid crying because nobody on the playground wants to play with him.

I’m sure Blizzard has many more qualified experts than me, but my understanding from a few psych lessons I took in college is that people have much higher tendency to quit and give up when they feel hopeless, not when they feel annoyed because someone else wears the same dress to the same party as them.

Removing items causes players to feel defeated and disappointed, since there is no way to obtain said items anymore: Hopelessness.

Seeing someone who rides the same mount or using the same xmog set as you: Girl with high school maturity annoyed because her best friend wears the same dress as her.


Except every expansion they add more things to the game. Yea its sucks if you can't get some things they are now gone, but they try to add more later on.

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