CRZ is getting really old [Part II]

General Discussion
03/13/2017 11:07 AMPosted by Unkÿnd
Server Mergers > CRZ

At least with mergers you get some benefits from a larger player base (more AH options, more players for guilds, trade chat, etc) + if you're on PVP and get killed by someone on your merged server, there's a good chance you'll see them again and be able to get revenge.

CRZ lacks community. It adds tons of people that don't feel like they are part of your world.


I recall some communities (realm hopped a bunch) and they are honestly overrated. I recall seeing the same idiot and his alts doing /yell in stormwind. That's about all I got out of it :/

I like seeing other people from other realms. Opens the social pool some.
03/13/2017 11:19 AMPosted by Oin
03/13/2017 10:10 AMPosted by Kurston
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How?
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How?
You don't think clicking a button and having a mount just appear under your butt breaks immersion? Or that clicking a queue button and magically appearing in a raid breaks immersion?

We are playing a game and there is no perfect immersion. There are going to be loading screens and there are going to be objects at distance you don't see.

I agree that Sharding (people are still calling it CRZ) can sometimes cause odd phasing, but I haven't personally experienced anything game breaking.

This is a new "Sharding" (not CRZ) technology in WoW and it has some strange glitches that I can only imagine will improve.

I get that some people hate change... ra ra ra... no change. But as everyone knows, for everyone that loves something there is likely another that hates it.

There is no overwhelming majority of players calling for sharding to go. Sure there are some... but there are some that want to play gnomish-tauren-nagas as well.

I feel like this is kind of a muted... meh... topic.


As an easy example of quest disruption: Aww, Nuts! - the world quest in Lorlathil, Val'shara. Each time this quest is up, you have to compete against 30+ people trying to click squirrels and acorns. Most of those other people are from random servers who have been CRZed onto your own, so that it appears "lively" or "full". Meanwhile, it takes 10 - 15 minutes to complete a quest that should take 2-3, and you have to complete the quest by standing in one spot and camping a spawn point, hoping to click faster than the other people who are doing the same.

Other quests with kill counts have similar problems if there are excessive numbers of Horde CRZ-ed into the area. Everything is greyed out, and untagable, but that would not be an issue if they were not forcibly placed into the same area as you.

As for how it breaks immersion: A quest tells you to go to the "secluded cave full of horrible, evil ... things", and to kill the boss and 8 of his minions to free the area of corruption. So, you head to this cave, which is located in what should be the middle of nowhere, but you see dozens of people running about on the way. Then, when you get to the cave, you see 5 people running out and 2 others running in with you. And everything is dead inside, and being camped by another 5-7 people ... none of which are on your server. Kind of ruins the story.

I am not against sharding, which I understand is the creation of "mirrors" of a zone to divide people up so that it runs smoother. It DID make the launch rather smooth, and it should be used for that. I am against CRZ, which is the forced combining of people from multiple servers into an area to give it the appearance of being more active/populated.


I still don't see the problem. Blizz fixed the "not enough mobs" issue back in WoD. If enough people are actually killing mobs then their respawn time speeds up or becomes instant.

So if you aren't seeing this then there's a big batch of mobs/nodes that aren't being touched.
When all this CRZ was being introduced to us ..there was a Q/A listed on WoW site...this question I am listing is a outright lie now from Blizzard.....my realm is PVE ..but since Legion has gone Live I seen more and more players from PVP realms...and no they are not in party with friends on my realm of Cairne...they show not in party with anyone...but Blizzard told us we would only be shared with other PVE realms...

"Q. How will this work for PvP vs. PvE realms? Will these realm types be shared?
No. Realm types will be matched with like realm types. So if you’re on a PvE realm, you’ll only be matched with other PvE realms. The same rules will apply for matching RP realm types and will be restricted to matching RP-PvP with RP-PvP and RP-PvE with RP-PvE. We plan to keep an eye on constructive feedback while testing this new technology."
03/14/2017 06:33 AMPosted by Kimmiroa
03/13/2017 11:19 AMPosted by Oin
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As an easy example of quest disruption: Aww, Nuts! - the world quest in Lorlathil, Val'shara. Each time this quest is up, you have to compete against 30+ people trying to click squirrels and acorns. Most of those other people are from random servers who have been CRZed onto your own, so that it appears "lively" or "full". Meanwhile, it takes 10 - 15 minutes to complete a quest that should take 2-3, and you have to complete the quest by standing in one spot and camping a spawn point, hoping to click faster than the other people who are doing the same.

Other quests with kill counts have similar problems if there are excessive numbers of Horde CRZ-ed into the area. Everything is greyed out, and untagable, but that would not be an issue if they were not forcibly placed into the same area as you.

As for how it breaks immersion: A quest tells you to go to the "secluded cave full of horrible, evil ... things", and to kill the boss and 8 of his minions to free the area of corruption. So, you head to this cave, which is located in what should be the middle of nowhere, but you see dozens of people running about on the way. Then, when you get to the cave, you see 5 people running out and 2 others running in with you. And everything is dead inside, and being camped by another 5-7 people ... none of which are on your server. Kind of ruins the story.

I am not against sharding, which I understand is the creation of "mirrors" of a zone to divide people up so that it runs smoother. It DID make the launch rather smooth, and it should be used for that. I am against CRZ, which is the forced combining of people from multiple servers into an area to give it the appearance of being more active/populated.


I still don't see the problem. Blizz fixed the "not enough mobs" issue back in WoD. If enough people are actually killing mobs then their respawn time speeds up or becomes instant.

So if you aren't seeing this then there's a big batch of mobs/nodes that aren't being touched.


Well, just doing my quests last night, I saw that this was not the case. I even mounted up and patrolled around the golden circle that designates where the mobs for the world quest can be found. There were very few, and by the time I got in range, they were either tagged by the plethora of Horde CRZ-ed in from other servers, or they were dead, courtesy of those Horde or the Alliance that were CRZ-ed in from other servers.

Just because Blizzard says they are going to fix/deal with something does not make it true. I tell my wife all the time that I am going to take the garbage out the next time I walk her dog. Quite often, the garbage is not taken out.
LETS MAKE CRZ YOUNG AGAIN
CRZ for current content is seriously a massive problem for the game. Not only does it become impossible to farm for things quickly and do world quests but it really destroyed PVP servers. Its not PVP when opposing factions outnumber you 10-1, you cant do WQ's because one little jerk hits you and if you fight back you make the beehive swarm and everyone attacks you.
Did the Highmountain emissary quests last night on three characters, and it took much longer than it should have:

Munitions Testing - the one on the east side, near the PvP tower. The birds were mostly dead or tagged by Horde from other servers. Same story for the wolves. I had to resort to camping a single area and hoping my instant-cast would hit before those of the Horde trying to snipe them from me.

Falcosaur quest - the one on the North-west coast, near the Murky/murlock quest area. Again, the falcosaurs were over-camped by Horde from other servers, making it hard to get a tag. It took a long time to fill that percentage bar.

Skyhorn retrieval quest - I had never actually done this one before, so I thought it would be fun to check it out and experience something new. Boy, was that a mistake. I managed to get the "retrieve the Skyhorn" part done very easily - in fact, I never once hit the big, boss bird at the top of the hill. I just managed to get credit for it, on all three characters, by being near the top. The bird died within about three seconds of spawning, and I could never actually get within attack range before it died. The difficult part was getting the five - FIVE - harpy kills. There were plenty of harpies spawning, in fact it seemed like they were spawning almost as quickly as they died. The problem was that there were so many Horde from other servers on the narrow path, just AoEing everything down, that everything was getting tagged as soon as it spawned. There was also a metric crap-tonne of lag with at least 30 people AoEing like mad on that narrow path. It took way longer than it should have to complete this seemingly simple, straightforward quest.

Also did the quest where the druid turns you into a lion and you have to kill the hunters. Once again, Horde from other servers were everywhere, leaving very few mobs available. And when I did see a free one, by the time I got to it, it was either tagged by one of those Horde, or an Alliance player from another server had already killed it with a 2-shot. As usual, I had to camp a spawn point to get my 10 kills.

This is not an old-school JRPG; camp-and-pull should not have to be my go-to tactic. Blizzard goes on about how proud they are of this beautiful world they've designed - it's why they won't let us fly, right? So, why is it okay for CRZ to result in our not being able to run around these areas they've created, and instead park ourselves in one spot to camp spawns with instant-cast spells?
I didn't realize how horrible CRZ can be until I leveled my mage. CRZ increased population causing mobs to instantly respawn on top of you so you can't click quest objective items because of aggro is horrible.

It's very annoying in that cave where you carry the rocks to drop them in the holes. Every time a mob respawns you drop the rock. Busy population due to CRZ makes WQ areas like this and others no fun.

It's also no fun trying to find a mailbox or auctioneer when 10,000 CRZ players and their tundra mammoths are piled up in mobs.
03/15/2017 06:50 AMPosted by Oin
Did the Highmountain emissary quests last night on three characters, and it took much longer than it should have:


I read your entire post. Just clipped it for neatness. I agree with all you say.

What you mention in your post is what I feel is perhaps the primary reason CRZ-type stuff exists, a means to slow players down. Players are corralled into small areas and made to compete for resources. All that, "It's an MMO so let's make stuff look thriving" is just rhetoric that's supposed to sound good, but beyond that noise players are merely tossed together to serve as a sort of throttling mechanism designed to slow each other down. For that reason, WQs are soo much more fun to do in off hours.

That aside, for me, one major thing I do not like about this New Realm Order (NRO), is that I get all the headache of a mega server, but none of the benefits. Here, out in the world questing areas are packed with people, yet I still have my same old podunk, small server auction house.

Moreover, CRZ has resulted in a sort of "player inflation" where there are now so many players out in the world they are almost worthless. Gone are the days where there was a feeling of questing in some remote wilderness and every so often I passed another traveler... now other players are so constantly shoved upon me, and I upon them, that their very presence has been cheapened.
03/15/2017 07:53 AMPosted by Florence
Moreover, CRZ has resulted in a sort of "player inflation" where there are now so many players out in the world they are almost worthless. Gone are the days where there was a feeling of questing in some remote wilderness and every so often I passed another traveler... now other players are so constantly shoved upon me, and I upon them, that their very presence has been cheapened.


Not just cheapened; I would argue that "abhorred" is more accurate. When I see other people doing the same quests as me (whether it be leveling or world quests), my immediate reaction is "ugh!" because I know that I'm going to be wasting time, and experiencing frustration.
I'll take more connected realms to have more guild options and actual players to interact with. Blizzard should have done more connected realms a year ago before Legion even released. And Blizzard certainly should have done more connected realms instead of enabling CRZ in Broken Isles when it's current.

CRZ can go jump off a cliff. The players I see from that are nothing more than irritating NPCs because I can't join their guild, I can't trade with them, and chances are I'll never see them again. Meanwhile, they grab gathering nodes before I do as well as mobs meaning they're taking resources and mobs I'm camping out from under me. While Legion makes farming gathering nodes easier, it didn't change anything for old content. It also still doesn't change a player getting to a rare mob before you do. You might get lucky and get in a tag or you might be screwed and miss it entirely. Then you have to sit and wait again. I spent several hours camping Bulvinkel on my hunter and almost lost him to hunters on 4 other servers. I got lucky when they logged out leaving me the only one there when he spawned. But losing out on things like that to another server is frustrating, especially when content is current. I shouldn't be seeing anyone that isn't from my server (or rather connected server) while doing current content.

I want connected realms. I don't want CRZ. I'd rather take a blowtorch to CRZ.

CRZ creates nothing but an illusion of more players. They're there and then they're gone. As I said before, CRZ players are literally nothing more than NPCs there to irritate you. All CRZ is is a cost saving measure for Blizzard that fails to give players any benefits. Connected realms has benefits because you can truly interact (join guilds, trade, but stuff off the AH) with the other players. CRZ does not give benefits.

And I've used it before many times in regards to CRZ, but when I go out into the forest, since when do I see 30 other people doing the exact same thing I am unless we're all on a retreat together? If I'm out in the desert, since when do I see 30 other people unless they're in my caravan? If I'm in the mountains, since when do I see 30 other people unless they're in my expedition? We should be enjoying the beauty of nature, not cursing because there's 30 other players stealing mobs and clickables from us. There is NO reason for me to be seeing 30 other players out in the middle of no where doing the same thing I am. I SHOULD be seeing 30+ other players in places like Dalaran, Stormwind, Orgrimmar, etc because those are CITIES. I should NOT Be seeing 30 other players killing the same imps and satyrs, cracking the same nuts and capturing the same squirrels, feeding the same whelps, etc as me.

The ONLY location in Legion that makes sense where I should be seeing a lot of other players is Suramar CITY. It's a city. We should be seeing plenty of players. But at the same time, the spawn rate of mobs and clickables needs to support it and it doesn't. Outside of the city itself and Dalaran, there's no reason for me to be seeing more than maybe 3-5 other players at a given location.

If you want to see a lot of players in an area, then fine. Transfer to a high population server. Many of us would much prefer a realistic setting where most players we see are in the main expansion city, not out in the world. The assumption that everyone wants to be squashed into the same tiny area with 30 other players doing the same thing is like assuming everyone wants to live in New York City. Shockingly, many of us don't live in big cities. Many of us might live in cities with 100,000 people or maybe even in towns with 1,000 people. Some of us might even live in a rural area where our closest neighbor is 2 miles down the road ... which is dirt.
Millions of people play this game. CRZ is unnecessary.

If populations on Realms shift, merge them with other Realms experiencing the opposite shift.

If populations decrease, merge them with other Realms decreasing in populations.
we need to build a wall around our server to keep cross realmers out (sarcasm).
03/15/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Drakulá
we need to build a wall around our server to keep cross realmers out (sarcasm).


That sounds tremendous.
Everyone looks the same, it's a bunch of similar shapes and colors moving around at this point. I press WASD to move. Yup, game has got existentially boring for me.

So...CRZ, who cares? It's the same damn trolls, orcs, nelfs, belfs, huamns, ect.. in the same gear and mounts. I wouldn't be able to pick out one server from another due to the cookie cutter style of WoW.

Just my two cents.
03/15/2017 09:36 AMPosted by Dapstullk
Millions of people play this game. CRZ is unnecessary.

If populations on Realms shift, merge them with other Realms experiencing the opposite shift.

If populations decrease, merge them with other Realms decreasing in populations.


The problem is when Patches/Xpacs come out, population increases dramatically across all servers, which could cause server flooding (and queues). With CRZ and Sharding it will reduce the number of players in a zone to more manageable numbers, which helps the server(s) perform better (less lag for us).

Blizz has already stated CRZ is here to stay due to the performance benefits. Give it up.
This is already on page 3, but whatever. I put a CRZ question in Q/A.

03/15/2017 10:43 AMPosted by Krotgar
Question: CRZ is extremely unpopular. Cross realm group is extremely popular. Telling people to play on RP servers is not a solution to CRZ. Will you actually fix the problems of CRZ or merge servers?
03/15/2017 11:56 AMPosted by Frostchi
03/15/2017 09:36 AMPosted by Dapstullk
Millions of people play this game. CRZ is unnecessary.

If populations on Realms shift, merge them with other Realms experiencing the opposite shift.

If populations decrease, merge them with other Realms decreasing in populations.


The problem is when Patches/Xpacs come out, population increases dramatically across all servers, which could cause server flooding (and queues). With CRZ and Sharding it will reduce the number of players in a zone to more manageable numbers, which helps the server(s) perform better (less lag for us).

Blizz has already stated CRZ is here to stay due to the performance benefits. Give it up.


This is a multi-billion dollar company. They can afford the hardware to handle peak load conditions.
03/15/2017 11:56 AMPosted by Frostchi
03/15/2017 09:36 AMPosted by Dapstullk
Millions of people play this game. CRZ is unnecessary.

If populations on Realms shift, merge them with other Realms experiencing the opposite shift.

If populations decrease, merge them with other Realms decreasing in populations.


The problem is when Patches/Xpacs come out, population increases dramatically across all servers, which could cause server flooding (and queues). With CRZ and Sharding it will reduce the number of players in a zone to more manageable numbers, which helps the server(s) perform better (less lag for us).

Blizz has already stated CRZ is here to stay due to the performance benefits. Give it up.


It is my understanding that CRZ adds excessive people into zones - to make them feel more "alive". It is sharding which breaks them up when populations get too high during expansions and patches. The two technologies might share similarities, but their functions seem to be completely opposite.

I am all for sharding it made the Legion launch one of the smoothest I can recall. It is CRZ that is detrimental to the game.

Blizzard once said that flying in current content was gone for good, because it was better for the game, and made everyone happier to experience the world they created from the ground. They eventually saw the folly and backed off of that stance. Telling us that "CRZ is here to stay" and to "give it up" is not going to deter us, or at least me. It needs to be removed, or at least drastically overhauled/redone. The player base has made the developers rethink their policies before, who are you to say that it can't happen again? Challenge accepted.
CRZ has only one good purpose..LFG and LFR, however..If Blizz were to merge realms while still keeping the auto-que, it would probably promote more communication because you'd still have the convenience of the que while also knowing you'll run into people that you actually have a chance of encountering again. That's my number one reason why I don't tend to talk much to CRZ people. Where's the incentive? Sure I could make a little small talk but I'll never see this person again..There's little reason to want to form a connection.

CRZ ruins questing. It's frustrating trying to do just about any quest, even more so on world quests, when you have to compete with a bunch of CRZ people running around. It causes quests to take longer than they should and with no cross faction mob tagging passed named/elites, it's even more of a drag when you have the opposite faction running around to compete with too.

To those trying to justify CRZ by saying it makes more people show up, this game is over 10+ years old...Obviously there's not going to be an abundance of players around like there were back in TBC/WOTLK. I loved when CRZ was turned off during some points in Legion, it was great seeing people from my own realm running around. I actually enjoyed their presence whereas whenever I see CRZ people around I just want to go /shoo.

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