Recent Action Against Real-Money Raid Clears

General Discussion
Prev 1 8 9 10 20 Next
GREAT GOING BLIZZ

people like this ruin the game for people who are serious about it...

We pay to play the game , money grubbers like this should not be able to get rich off others because they are in a guild that does runs

I will report everyone of them.....

What I do is often message them , ask how much then when they give a price in real money I report them, this way they cant possibly deny selling for real money .
03/08/2017 11:55 AMPosted by Mormaethor
So does this mean me and my wife (who trade back and forth on the same connection and have access to each others accounts) will get banned for sharing stuff in-game?


Account Sharing is not allowed by the EULA, unless its with your child.

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula.html

1. THE BATTLE.NET ACCOUNT.

A. Use of the Battle.net Account.

iv. When you create an Account, you will be required to select a unique username and password (collectively referred to hereunder as “Login Information”). You may not use your real name as the password for the Account, and you cannot share the Account or the Login Information with anyone, unless the terms of this Agreement allow it.

vi. Subject to the laws of your country of residence, minor children may utilize an Account established by their parent or legal guardian. In the event that you permit your minor child or legal ward (collectively, your “Child”) to use an Account on Battle.net, you hereby agree to this Agreement on behalf of yourself and your Child, and you understand and agree that you will be responsible for all uses of the Account by your Child whether or not such uses were authorized by you.


If you and your wife are not sharing the accounts, but each maintain your own exclusive control of your respective accounts, but trade in game materials, then you are perfectly fine.

I have two accounts. My wife has a 3rd account. I maintain control over my accounts. My wife maintains control over her account. Neither of us logs in or shares the others accounts. We do log in from computers that are behind the same basic connection to the outside world. And because I play a lot more than she does, if she plays (which isn't frequent, I don't think she's logged in since November) theres a good chance I'm giving her things to help make it easier for her, for free.

All of that is ok, even though we combine our income and treat it as a family resource that pays for the 3 accounts (I make a fair amount more than she does, but that hasn't always been the case when we were younger while I was finishing school).

What wouldn't be ok is if I log in from her account, or she logs in from my account, that then becomes account sharing, which is prohibited, so we don't do it. Besides, I don't want her mucking around on my characters or doing anything to them any more than she wants me on hers, so it just makes sense.
03/07/2017 08:38 PMPosted by Ikhj
But at the end of the day, what is the difference between selling runs for gold and runs for real money?

With the introduction of the WoW token, these currencies are interchangeable and are one in the same for the purposes of WoW. I cannot see the difference between someone charging $100 vs someone charging 500k gold which the buyer obtained by buying 5 WoW tokens for $100.

I think it's silly that one is against the ToS while the other doesn't. This decision seems to be in the interest of Blizzard, not anyone else.


Well in your example the $100 is going to the guy running you throught the content.

In the second example, the $100 is going directly to blizzard.

Also they don't want to deal with IRL currency scams.
Bout time!!!!!!!!! I have reported these people for years!!

They need to get real jobs now!
Yay!
03/08/2017 10:54 AMPosted by Griever

In term of "game integrity" there's absolutely no differences between buying gold through the WoW Token system then spending said gold on a boost or simply Paypaling someone for it.

The difference is that those selling carries for real money have no interest in the gold. They want the real money because they want to use it for things not Blizzard related. Gold is something they don't need or they would be selling for gold in the first place.

People can spend their real money to buy gold but it doesn't do much good if they aren't finding sellers for the carry they want.
This is useless.
People that professionally sells carries don't use they real accounts.
That is, if they have a real account at all.

Even if the account is permanently banned, it costs less than US$ 100.00 to get a new account with a free level 100 boost.

It will take a few days being carried by "workmates" until they will be able to carry.

I checked one of those sites and theres is carries for over US$ 200.00.
If they carry 10 players with that account before its gets banned, it is US$ 1900 profit.

By the way. Whats the difference between pay for a carry to a streamer who makes supporters runs?
Haha so the result of these?

8 day bans.

Eight whole days for making real money off their game. Where do I sign up? I'll take an 8 day ban if it makes $2500.
03/08/2017 01:05 PMPosted by Gregorius
This is useless.
People that professionally sells carries don't use they real accounts.
That is, if they have a real account at all.

Even if the account is permanently banned, it costs less than US$ 100.00 to get a new account with a free level 100 boost.

It will take a few days being carried by "workmates" until they will be able to carry.

I checked one of those sites and theres is carries for over US$ 200.00.
If they carry 10 players with that account before its gets banned, it is US$ 1900 profit.

By the way. Whats the difference between pay for a carry to a streamer who makes supporters runs?


And if you report their butts eventually blizz shall roll in like $100,000 profits off reselling the game to the same set of idiots.

Edit adding:

Also these idiots have to get their characters back into a carrying state. Also blizz can track them via their payment methods and sew the living hell out of them.
03/08/2017 01:10 PMPosted by Kimmiroa
And if you report their butts eventually blizz shall roll in like $100,000 profits off reselling the game to the same set of idiots.

Edit adding:

Also these idiots have to get their characters back into a carrying state. Also blizz can track them via their payment methods and sew the living hell out of them.


Yup, the carriers make money, blizzard makes money, and at the end of the day you're still too stupid to make dat monies. You sure showed everyone... your autism.

You're also assuming the account that got the ban/suspension was also the account with the character doing the carrying; not always the case.

It's also laughable to think they're going track you down and sue some random Joe Blow for small time gold sales. I doubt you'd every find such a small scale case brought forward by Blizzard, so put down the tinfoil hat mate.
Seems slightly hypocritical... You can now use your gold to buy real life money on Bnet sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... that's different cause Blizzard that's why.
I'm confused. Selling a spot in your raid for real money is some how a violation of TOS because it's hurting what exactly?

You're not selling an in game item for real money. You're selling a valuable raid spot in your raid with the potential that you might get loot drops there. So in reality you're selling your own time and effort of those doing the carry. If doing this for free is ok (carrying). How is it not ok if its paid? This is a clear case of corporate greed wanting a piece of the action because they are the only ones to benefit from it. This is not ok blizzard. Don't become the greedy gaming company over some chump change no one wants to see that ugly face on you.

If you want to argue that any gain made in game using outside money is a tos violation, then consider the spectral tiger mount and any other out of game items that are being sold for, get this, "REAL MONEY" GASP. You pay real money and get an item in game. Best start banning all of them too. Also anyone that bought a boost should get a ban that clearly violates this policy. Anyone transfer to a better server? Ban them too because they benefited with real money.

This kind of action is a slippery slope. Where does it end? Pretty much every top guild has sold carries for real money. Are you going to ban all of them? Don't make it something its not. Its the corporation taking action because they missed a piece of pie and are now trying to collect. If this were not the case then doing it for free or for gold would also be a violation. The behavior is not whats under attack, blizz made that clear by saying its ok to pay in gold. So all of you who are pissed about the behavior, that's just your own jealousy that you don't have the extra cash to pay for this service, or simply want everyone to have to do everything the same way you did.
03/08/2017 05:43 AMPosted by Files
I CALL BULLSPLAT. How can you call 'gold runs' ok but not buying runs with real money? Do you forget you just made tokens trade real money for GOLD. So are you just pissed because a middle man is taking your money? Looks like greed motivating this instead of reason. Person buys gold with token via real money. Person then goes and pays GOLD for a run... What is the difference please explain.


Quite simple actually, using gold to convert from tokens only gives balance not physical money.

you may use the Service solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client. You may not use the Service for any other purpose, or in connection with any other software.

Not sure how that isn't clear enough for you.


Explain eSports then. Go on, I'll wait. Or do you think earning a salary for playing a game is not a commercial purpose? Hell, what about all the sponsorship agreements that world-first guilds and arena teams have? How are those suddenly "non-commercial" if you think everything is so black and white clear?

(c) performing in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling;


OK I admit I did not find that section by searching on the term "money" instead of "payment" so I think that is a lot closer to the point. However, given that this ToS was last updated in 2012, I think it fails to account for the fact that eSports are commercial, for-profit services and I don't honestly see the distinction between paying people to join a raid for your guild and calling your guild an eSports team and paying your raiders a salary.
03/08/2017 02:32 PMPosted by Adrim
Explain eSports then.

Not really much of a need to.

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/activision-blizzard-acquires-the-business-of-major-league-gaming

They're most likely going to own that, too.
I'm glad Blizzard is trying to address this issue, but I agree with others above that an 8 day ban won't do much to stop anyone from selling things like Gladiator or PVE mounts for real money. As long as someone is willing to pay real money, there will always be sellers willing to take it.
03/08/2017 01:48 PMPosted by Reondra
I'm confused. Selling a spot in your raid for real money is some how a violation of TOS because it's hurting what exactly?


Blizzard. You're using their product, something they spent a great deal of time and money to develop to enrich yourself without Blizzard's permission. Since it's their product, they get to govern how that product is used. Which is exactly what you agree to every time you download the game or update it and agree to the ToS. Just like you can't secretly come into some one else's house while they're at work and use their living room to sell your custom T-shirts and cookies. It's not your house, you're not paying the mortgage, and yet you're using it to make money.
03/07/2017 06:25 PMPosted by Nothealed
Thanks, now do the same thing with bots!


Yea. I'm sick and tired of never seeing a single bot ever have action taken against it /s.

Oh wait, it's a constant thing and not something a single action will ever permanently fix?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20744124429
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20043056691
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17347095985

Huh...
03/07/2017 10:50 AMPosted by Ornyx
Of the players affected, many were members of top raiding guilds. We want to be clear that everyone we’ve taken action against had illustrated full knowledge and intent to violate the Terms of Use. Going forward, in order to ensure fair play and competitive integrity, we’ll be monitoring these activities much more closely in order to make sure that the rules are being followed. This includes selling services for real money, account-sharing, and other violations.

When players in top guilds (I.e. competing for world/region/server first) do this, I would recommend banning them for at least 15 days, starting when the next raid tier (I.e. Tomb of Sargeras) opens, thereby costing them a week of heroic progression and a week of mythic progression, plus one day, ruining their chance of being one of the first to get the kill.
03/07/2017 10:50 AMPosted by Ornyx
Also note that Patch 7.2 includes some improvements to our reporting features to add clearer categories for reporting listings in the Premade Group Finder. We’re disappointed to see members of the raiding community participating in behaviors that clearly violate the Terms of Use, and want to be clear that such activities will not be tolerated.

I would also recommend shadow-silencing spammers. When a player is shadow-silenced, rather than getting an error message, anything he says or any LFG groups he posts will only be visible to him and his guild. No one else will see them.
As soon as I heard about this coaching "ban" I furiously exited game and took to these forums to write an essay on this deplorable act of force. Has World of Warcraft eSports failed because its good qualities were perverted by evil men who got in charge? Was it simply because a coach offered someone with extra money a self-play that you didn't achieve your goals? Have these extracurricular markets succeeded despite the immoral values that pervaded? I think the answer to both questions is no. The results have arisen because each system has been true to its own values.

What I'm concerned with is discussing moral values here and the relationships between people. It's important to distinguish between two sets of moral considerations. Firstly, the morality that is relevant to each one of us in our private life; how we each individually conduct ourselves and behave. Secondly, what is relevant to Blizzard as a corporation, as an administration are the relations between people. In judging the relations between people, I do not believe that the fundamental value is to do good to others whether they want you to or not. The fundamental value is not to do good to others as you see their good. It's not to force them to do good. As I see it, the fundamental value of relations among people is to respect the dignity and individuality of your fellow person. To treat your fellow person not as an object to be manipulated for your purpose. But to be treated as their own person with their own rights. A person to be persuaded, not coerced, not forced, not bulldozed, not brainwashed. That seems to me to be a fundamental value in social relations.

Whenever we depart from voluntary cooperation and try to do good by using force, the bad moral value of force triumphs over good intentions. And you must realize that this is highly relevant to what I'm saying because the essential notion of a competitive marketplace is voluntary cooperation and voluntary exchange, whereas the essential notion of a socialist economy is fundamentally forced. If Blizzard is our master. If our community is to be run from the center. What are they doing? Whenever you try to do good with someone else's money, you are committed to using force. How else can you do good unless you first take it away from them? The only way you can take it away from them is through the threat of force. This is carried much further. If you really have a socialist society, if you'll have an organization from the center, if you have supposed Blizzard employees running things. That can only be run on force, but whenever you resort to force, even if you try to do good, you must not question people's motives. Maybe they're evil sometimes, but look at the results they do. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Assume their motives are good. There is an old saying that the "road to hell is paved with good intentions." You have to look at the outcome: Whenever we use force, the bad moral value of force triumphs over good intentions. The reason is not only that famous aphorism from Lord Acton, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." That's one reason why trying to do good with methods that involve force lead to bad results.

Also, the fundamental reason is more profound. The most harm of all is done when power is in the hands of people that are absolutely persuaded of the purity of their instincts and the purity of their intentions. Thoreau once said, "Philanthropy is an overrated virtue and it is our selfishness which overrates it." I think that sincerity is also an overrated virtue. Save us from the sincere reformers at Blizzard who know what's good for us and are going to do it to us whether we like it or not. This is where the greatest harm is done. I have no reason to doubt that Holinka is a man who's intentions are good. Maybe they're not, but this ban on coaching shows that he is completely persuaded that he is right and he is willing to use any methods at all for the "ultimate good".

It's interesting to contrast the experience of Hitler vs. Mussolini. Mussolini was much less a danger to human rights because he was a hypocrite. He didn't really believe in what he was saying. He was just in there for the game. He started out as a socialist, he turned to a fascist, he was willing to be bribed. As a result there were at least some protections against his arbitrary rule. And yet, Hitler was a sincere fanatic. He believed in what he was doing and he did far greater harm.

You cannot know basic economics, or love this community, unless you understand why carries for real-life currency can give more, not less, than gold.

World's R1 RBG Leader Bailamos

twitter @bailamostar
twitch @bailamos
youtube @rank1leader

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum