Tanking paradigm moving forward

Class Development
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-Bring tanking specs up to par with Guardians for mitigation and smoothing incoming damage. Perhaps make magical mitigation something that cannot be maintained with 100% uptime and must be used intelligently for stronger bursts of magic damage across all the specs. Then a fight like Krosus instead of keeping an ability like MoU up all the time I'd use it on a higher stack count and through the debuff falling off. (Ideally)

-Provide competitive abilities for slight self healing like FR that cannot be spammed to oblivion but allow for everyone to assist in their own recovery. (I know some tanks specs like prot paladins already have this)

-Give us all mobility on some form of CD. If I can't blink then prot warriors can't leap and brewmasters can't roll.

-Then provide us competitive utility abilities similar to what is available now.
Guardians with aoe roar on short(er) CD.
Aoe taunt brewmasters.
Aoe grip blood Dks.

This is where we should shine as a unique tanking spec especially (in my personal opinion), and opens opportunities for creative abilities.

Then for a majority of players there isn't a huge disadvantage to not playing X class, and instead at most you are sacrificing is the convenience of a situational utility ability that should never make or break an encounter anyway.

That's just my opinion.
So we can summarize what he said:

We don't want to nerf Guardians because the players are comfortable being the best tank. We also don't like to nerf around this time unless it's Prot Warrior related. Speaking of Protection, we threw you and Demon Hunters a bone, but you're still not as good as Guardian! haha! Btw, Mark of Ursol is so much worse than spell reflect, except for like two fights so get over it.

Sound right?

I hope you all take the time to appreciate a developer coming out and saying a class is overpowered, but they're not going to make a change because "Players are comfortable with their spec."

Make sure you guys let them know how comfortable you are next time your spec is riding high. You know, that way they don't nerf you!
It's pointless.

The amount of feedback given since Alpha/Beta through launch till now is probably enough to fill up a few novels, but yet any changes that come to classes/specs that aren't Blizzard's Favored Child(s) are almost always completely out of left field and do not address the issues presented by our feedback.

I guess we can keep spamming them with feedback, but judging from the trend, the feedback's totally useless. I doubt they have even read 1% of it, or worse, they read it but refuse to accept it for some unknown, enigmatic reason.

I really wonder what goes on in their dev discussion meetings (if any), is it logging onto their favorite classes and testing the new mechanics/items/whatever for a bit before calling it a day, while leaving other specs to rot? Nothing makes sense.

I guess I'm rambling, but I just have to get this out, Legion is a much better expansion in terms of content compared to WoD, but I don't get how they could have dropped the ball so hard on class balance. Classes are the lens through which their clients see the world, and, well, if the lens is cracked or blurred, no matter how pretty the picture is, nothing can be seen.

But what do we know, right? We aren't high and mighty devs in an elite corporation. We're just random people.
To clarify Bliz..

- you won't change bears as people are used to the ease of tanking with them

- other tanks.. tough luck shoulda chosen a bear.. yeah you got issues but it's something that we might look into.. sometime.. in the future.. next patch.. next expansion.. heheh just joking.. go roll bear

I.. what..umm..!??.. I honestly don't know what to say.. can you 'try' and take a step back and think how this plays with the 'other' tanks???
I remember a Bliz employee using the famous phrase...

"Bring the player, not the class".

Just curious... did the dev's miss that memo?
Something I wasn't clear enough about above: re-evaluating Mark of Ursol would still be before Tomb of Sargeras. Other broad class tuning based on PTR testing and other data closer to that point would also take place as usual, at the start of the new raid. But that's one concrete item we can already mention.
"The spec is a wrong choice" is upgraded to "The spec is the only choice".

Nicely done.
03/15/2017 11:24 PMPosted by Sigma
Something I wasn't clear enough about above: re-evaluating Mark of Ursol would still be before Tomb of Sargeras. Other broad class tuning based on PTR testing and other data closer to that point would also take place as usual, at the start of the new raid. But that's one concrete item we can already mention.


Plz buff blood, No mythic guilds will take me. :(
03/15/2017 11:24 PMPosted by Sigma
Something I wasn't clear enough about above: re-evaluating Mark of Ursol would still be before Tomb of Sargeras. Other broad class tuning based on PTR testing and other data closer to that point would also take place as usual, at the start of the new raid. But that's one concrete item we can already mention.


Warriors have saved you the trouble of
what early tomb of sargeras will tell you:

Buffing spell reflection without increasing duration, or without improving magic defenses in general for Protection, will keep Warriors in the basement. Please, surely you can see this too?
03/15/2017 07:35 PMPosted by Pew
druid mastery has been allowed to stay incredibly powerful.


lol?

Druid mastery was cut in HALF before Legion even launched. Any further nerfs would render it effectively useless. They need to just completely redesign it at this point. Just go back to when it, what, increased armor or something.

In any case, Blizzard, please look at blood. I only went druid because I didn't like the state of the class in 7.0 (and it hasn't gotten better...). I played this class/spec exclusively for several years, but as much as I love it, I can't justify trying to play it for mythic progression.
So wait you are changing classes or you aren't you?

The message really isn't clear.

Should I or should I not expect to be competitive with Bears before tomb.

Hell at this point I would probably take "not retarded to play" if competitive isn't on the table.

What does reevaluating mean in this context because with the current track record I expect to hear in a few weeks "Yes we have looked at it and decided it was fine after all, also here is more nerfs for prot and some QoL fixes for druid"
Guardian mastery was cut in half, before anyone else received nerfs. And guardians are powerful, but just bring the other tanks up to the area. A significant "nerf" or "redesign" of mark of ursol is not necessary. There are trade offs being made as blizzard posted, while demon hunters for example do not have to make a trade off for their magic part, and they get a buff for soaking magic.
Something I wasn't clear enough about above: re-evaluating Mark of Ursol would still be before Tomb of Sargeras. Other broad class tuning based on PTR testing and other data closer to that point would also take place as usual, at the start of the new raid. But that's one concrete item we can already mention.


Soooo, what? Are you holding out on us?

Because I think your previous post has been interpreted (including by me) as there being no more changes to classes from this point onward. If you ARE going to make more changes (hopefully good ones that bring classes closer together), I think this may be a good time to reveal more of it, because morale for underperforming specs is pretty much non-existent right now.
03/15/2017 11:47 PMPosted by Kranik
Should I or should I not expect to be competitive with Bears before tomb.


Given what they said, no. They just want you able to comfortably finish NH...on some level.

Honestly, I think Ironfur and MoU should just get merged into a Shield of the Righteous clone. Make it an ability that reduces all damage and give it 3 charges with a recharge timer affected by haste. Boom. We can't keep it up 100% any longer and other tanks can now be brought up incrementally.
Guardian druids are fine. Mark of Ursol is fine. Make the other tanks better. I'm not biased.
03/15/2017 11:24 PMPosted by Sigma
Something I wasn't clear enough about above: re-evaluating Mark of Ursol would still be before Tomb of Sargeras. Other broad class tuning based on PTR testing and other data closer to that point would also take place as usual, at the start of the new raid. But that's one concrete item we can already mention.


So...to summarize...we will look at this in 7.2.5.

I guess 6+ months of data isnt enough?

might as well just give every other tank a blanket 10-15% HP buff and sort it out later.

Also DK and DH could use a 15-20% Damage buff

Thanks!
This is all a side note anyway because unless scaling for IP, soul cleave and death-strike are addressed the bottom three tanks won't magically be competitive with Druids if you make them worse at magic damage.

Sure changing MoU may prevent druids from cheesing entire encounters... which will just leave them with the largest effective health pool, highest armour, one of the best self heals and a useful artefact ability.

Honestly it feels like you got slapped for the first post and told to come imply that we won't stay noncompetitive for months. Don't provide anything concrete though. We totally believe you...

Can I expect there to at least be some sort of post regarding the next playstyle shakeup I'm sure to receive.

Maybe you can put in another talent that makes Shield Slam and Revenge automatic as well and then we will only need to worry about our cooldowns. Call it Slaminator and make it compete with some other vital talent.

<Totally not bitter about the 7.1.5 shakeup still.
Nice to see all the Meme tanks working together
1) we avoid imposing significant nerfs at this point in a tier to a spec that many people have gotten comfortable completing the content with, .


Yet you nerf other specs both tanks and dps a like just when they are getting comfortable. The bias is really strong here sigma, and it's staggering. Guardian is overpowered, and using Star Argur as an example is not great when they solo tank it and don't give a damn about mechanics on every fight.
I wish the devs would just hold their hands up and admit that they screwed up tank balance real bad in nighthold. It will be a mild consolation to me and other prot warriors. At least I can tell my friends and guildies that, look, I am not that incompetent. I just lack the tools that bears have.

I have the misfortune of having a bear as my co tank. The difference in our survivalbility is downright disgusting.

On top of having a bigger health pool which is easier to top up because of their mastery, bears have a better or equivalent physical damage mitigation in iron fur, a digustingly overpowered no-CD magic damage mitigation in mark of ursol, more survival cooldowns and an artifact ability that is actually useful. Throw in a potent self heal in frenzied regeneration and you have a tank that is better then the warrior in almost every way.

Do you know what it feels like when your bear co-tank is an arrogant piece of $%^- that likes to insinuate on guild communication about how you are stupid and incompetent because he can survive and live in situations you can't? What about the rest of my casual guildies who don't know much about tanking or don't read the forums enough to know about the current state of tanks? They can only think that I bad. And who can blame them?

On heroic guldan for eg, I have to call for externals, pool rage for a small *!@ ignore pain, plan my CDs for fel bonds breakage and sometimes still die to fel scythe because i used my CDs to solo break bonds and can't use them again for every single scythe. In the meantime, bears can solo break every single bond with no externals whatsoever, have a mitigation up everytime we have to scythe, and make snarky remarks about how i just randomly drop dead from a scythe while having the dreadlord beating down on me after 4 interupts while he can tank them all np.

Call me bad and is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Its so depressing that I no longer want to tank anymore.

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