Reap Souls

Class Development
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03/14/2017 04:55 PMPosted by Tinieblas
I know it's not a frontloaded class. I'm saying it has direct damage options, even if poor ones. When those lashers come out on botanist as affliction and they need to die NOW, you really have nothing to hit with as affliction besides putting a dot on them. You can drain soul them over 5 seconds for 420k damage, which is even worse than a mindblast+SW:D.

I'm not saying shadow is a burst spec, just that it has more options than affliction when it comes to priority adds.
Here's a typical log for empowered eyes: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CqVm3x6RKkYHLTt7#fight=36&type=damage-done&target=60&source=9

Regular eyes: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CqVm3x6RKkYHLTt7#fight=36&type=damage-done&target=51&source=9

Here's some lasher damage: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q2tkbQAP8c3YxjFM#fight=34&type=damage-done&target=193&source=18

They do their damage with dots. Yeah their direct damage contributes, but its largely carried by dot damage. Again, I do think affliction should have some amount of direct damage, but we're off on a tangent that's completely separate from the original topic.

And I mean really at the end of the day, you're not the only person in your raid. I've played destruction full time this tier, that means my dmg is going to be weak in certain areas like sustained single target. Others in my guild play specs that are great for sustained single target, and that allows me to get away with being weaker at it, so that I can be stronger at the things destruction is good at. You always need a mix of damage in your raid, so you pick the specs and allocate damage according to strengths / weaknesses.
03/15/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Bacoñ
03/14/2017 04:55 PMPosted by Tinieblas
I know it's not a frontloaded class. I'm saying it has direct damage options, even if poor ones. When those lashers come out on botanist as affliction and they need to die NOW, you really have nothing to hit with as affliction besides putting a dot on them. You can drain soul them over 5 seconds for 420k damage, which is even worse than a mindblast+SW:D.

I'm not saying shadow is a burst spec, just that it has more options than affliction when it comes to priority adds.
Here's a typical log for empowered eyes: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CqVm3x6RKkYHLTt7#fight=36&type=damage-done&target=60&source=9

Regular eyes: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CqVm3x6RKkYHLTt7#fight=36&type=damage-done&target=51&source=9

Here's some lasher damage: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q2tkbQAP8c3YxjFM#fight=34&type=damage-done&target=193&source=18

They do their damage with dots. Yeah their direct damage contributes, but its largely carried by dot damage. Again, I do think affliction should have some amount of direct damage, but we're off on a tangent that's completely separate from the original topic.

And I mean really at the end of the day, you're not the only person in your raid. I've played destruction full time this tier, that means my dmg is going to be weak in certain areas like sustained single target. Others in my guild play specs that are great for sustained single target, and that allows me to get away with being weaker at it, so that I can be stronger at the things destruction is good at. You always need a mix of damage in your raid, so you pick the specs and allocate damage according to strengths / weaknesses.


I can agree with that, unfortunately most of the melee are like "why is your damage on eyes/laser so low?".

Which is why I simply go destro on those fights now, so I don't have to deal with melee pot calling the ranged kettle black about tunneling targets.

I'm really hoping destro gets some of your suggested changes so I can just be happy playing it 100% of the time, because I don't think affliction is poised to get the readjustment it needs anytime soon.

I do less overall damage as destro, but I feel so much less !@#$ty when it comes to actual progression.
if this does go live i hope encounter means raid encounter, a strong thing about being affliction in a mythic dungeon is u will have souls for every boss fight. This is a very stupid thing I also see they nerfed the useless seed of corruption trait from 50 to 40% and nerfed our new soul generation golden trait in 7.2. Can you please listen to our feedback
03/15/2017 10:56 AMPosted by Tinieblas
I do less overall damage as destro, but I feel so much less !@#$ty when it comes to actual progression.
That has pretty much been destructions niche the last 3 xpacs. it hasn't been a spec that typically gets the glory near the top of the meter, its a spec for those who care about killing bosses.

That's what makes me keep gravitating towards it, because I care more about progression / mechanics / killing bosses than I do about being at the top of the overall meter.

Realistically its difficult to create that situation for dot specs like demo / aff*. They basically have to be overtuned for it to work.
I'm also getting real nervoud about them doing nothing with the horrendous Sinister Seeds Paragon trait. Destro is also inviting more RNG disaster with flame rift, but at least it's not an utterly useless trait.

Demo got the one set of fairly useful paragon traits.
This should not affect Mythic Dungeon bosses--only the start of a raid encounter and the start of an entire Mythic Keystone dungeon. Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat where managing resources before/after a boss is part of the gameplay.

We're going to monitor whether Affliction needs an overall buff to account for this (even in a patch with few class changes). We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.
So why do no other resources seem to clear at the start of a fight then? Or are they going to fixed in 7.2 as well?

Further, this does nothing to address the fact that we're useless during lust because of soul starvation. Why not a starting value of 3 or so?
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma
This should not affect Mythic Dungeon bosses--only the start of a raid encounter and the start of an entire Mythic Keystone dungeon. Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat where managing resources before/after a boss is part of the gameplay.

We're going to monitor whether Affliction needs an overall buff to account for this (even in a patch with few class changes). We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.
Care to elaborate, or give us an insight, on why insisting to keep the 'soul' resource/mechanic?

Stripped down to basics - Reap Soul is no different from other maintenance buffs in game like Savage Roar/Roll the Bones, except it has a larger impact.

However, those buffs use existing resources on their class like combo points. which makes it easier to manage/understand.

Why went out all the way creating a third resource, which you had to rebalance/add talents to make it 'tolerable' - when Soul Shard is supposed to be our main focus, our 'premier source of power'?
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma
This should not affect Mythic Dungeon bosses--only the start of a raid encounter and the start of an entire Mythic Keystone dungeon. Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat where managing resources before/after a boss is part of the gameplay.

We're going to monitor whether Affliction needs an overall buff to account for this (even in a patch with few class changes). We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.


We have yet to see this.Why is this occurring only now? no quick fix to just give us a few souls?

We've been bringing this up since the change to the deadwind harvester in beta, Why do we have to wait 10+ months for !@#$ like this get fixed?
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma
This should not affect Mythic Dungeon bosses--only the start of a raid encounter and the start of an entire Mythic Keystone dungeon. Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat where managing resources before/after a boss is part of the gameplay.

We're going to monitor whether Affliction needs an overall buff to account for this (even in a patch with few class changes). We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.


Would it not be possible to give them a certain number of soul spawns every time a boss is pulled? Like... remove the ones already there and spawn like... 2 or something when a boss is pulled?
03/13/2017 03:26 AMPosted by Anuï
the fantasy of being a DoT casting class, as we literally will have to sacrifice DoT uptime just to keep those drain soul procs rolling.


I think the big problem with this version of MG is they basically did not listen to us when we said we wanted MG back. The old one did a portion of your DoT damage as opposed to increasing your damage on to your target by X amount. Sounds similar but it does create situations where instead of trying to keep 100% uptime on all DoTs you have to let SL and sometimes even Corruption fall off just to make sure you get that extra Tick of an UA buffed by MG. Had they just did the effect of old MG they not only did not have to nerf it but also could of kept the WiA/Effigy combo that some people liked.

If i could be perfectly honest, they should swap Haunt and Effigy's places on the tree, making haunt the ST, PS(add haste/mastery scaling it this) for AoE, and Conduit for cleave. Then of course change MG to how it used to be.
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma


We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.


Sorry i do not feel the pressure and the fact as developers that is the spin you put on it is ridiculous.

Also where is the follow up on Affliction T20?? like how you posted on that and then went quiet, assume that crap will make it to live? forcing me into a stand and drain rotation as opposed to a free stlying DOT king, ohhh wait i can still DOT stuff just it will only account for 10% of my dmg! Awesome design guys
Further, this does nothing to address the fact that we're useless during lust because of soul starvation. Why not a starting value of 3 or so?


Precisely this. Your argument for the reset is to establish a standardized baseline. This would be achieved by a starting value of 3-4 souls. Having a standard number of souls at the start of each raid encounter would also help to address a key problem faced by the spec which you yourself mention in your rationale: "slower rampup".
03/15/2017 07:42 PMPosted by Glernaj
So why do no other resources seem to clear at the start of a fight then? Or are they going to fixed in 7.2 as well?


Yer kidding, right? Bosses are SO obnoxious about clearing resources to an "expected" level that Paladins can't even open with Blade of Justice or we lose the Holy Power a split second later because we're not "supposed" to have two.
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma
This should not affect Mythic Dungeon bosses--only the start of a raid encounter and the start of an entire Mythic Keystone dungeon. Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat where managing resources before/after a boss is part of the gameplay.

We're going to monitor whether Affliction needs an overall buff to account for this (even in a patch with few class changes). We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.


Please don't wait till the raid tier after Tomb of Sargeras to actually compensate the spec.

And when are we getting an update as to the possible solutions to the problems you guys acknowledged about the warlock specs?
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma
This should not affect Mythic Dungeon bosses--only the start of a raid encounter and the start of an entire Mythic Keystone dungeon. Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat where managing resources before/after a boss is part of the gameplay.

We're going to monitor whether Affliction needs an overall buff to account for this (even in a patch with few class changes). We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.


This is really concerning. Almost all of the feedback in this entire thread is saying don't make this change, we really do not like the idea of being forced to be "soul starved" on every boss pull, and have presented a community accepted response which is:

Let us have 2-3 souls baseline out of combat so that we can be useful during heroism-on-pull fights, and balance us around that

We aren't asking to let us keep 12 souls on the pull, we're asking to let us start with a standardized 2-3 souls. You're completely ignoring the players who are actually going to play this specialization under the pretense that you can just "buff us" to make up for it.

Buffing our damage isn't going to change the fact our ramp up will result in us being largely useless for damage on the pulls of bosses. And it won't change the fact that it feels awful watching everyone else around you being able to go to town on the meters while you sit there at the bottom with tanks waiting on your souls to generate so you can deal a normalized amount of damage.

Please, listen to the community for once. You won't even change the t20 set bonuses, update our visuals, or make alterations to the obscenely cookie cutter talents we have. At least give us this.
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma
This should not affect Mythic Dungeon bosses--only the start of a raid encounter and the start of an entire Mythic Keystone dungeon. Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat where managing resources before/after a boss is part of the gameplay.

We're going to monitor whether Affliction needs an overall buff to account for this (even in a patch with few class changes). We still believe it's better to not have the variance between the first attempt at a boss with 12 saved souls, and all future attempts where you feel like you've lost your one chance to do your best damage. Avoiding that sort of pressure is a reason we've generally tried to become more standardized about clearing resources at the start of an encounter for all classes. If the encounter follows a consistent set of rules every time, the spec can be tuned around that behavior, including a spec that, for example, has slower rampup.


If this is what it takes for us to receive buffs by all means I'm content with the change, Because without a high number of souls on pull affliction isn't competitive.

We are not competitive in any fight in any raid released in this expansion so far.

Warlocks are the most underrepresented class in the top parses for every fight in EN, ToV and NH other than the skorpyron fight which we're 50/50 ratio with mages which mind you can be exploited by tanking skorpyron at the back of the room where the spiders enter from.

Let warlocks shine please, Let us have the glory and satisfaction of being strong on boss fights like botanist. People need to see warlocks are good a good raid class, We're a pure dps class which only has utility to offer...

Botanist should be an affliction warlock's prime fight yet the parses on warcraft logs are dominated by shadowpriests, The reason being we have to spend precious global cooldowns refreshing dots at the pandemic value where as void bolt for shadowpriest refreshes dots.

It's so blatantly obvious we need a buff, I'm sure the developers are well aware of this too.

Here's an idea, Get rid of phantom singularity because as it is it's useless.

Give us back soulburning, Then give us back soulburn:haunt to increase all damage over time effects by 20% which would fix our multi target sustained damage. We need another enjoyable method of spending soulshards.

Give us back the old unstable affliction that doesn't stack. Give us back haunt as baseline (WoD variant), Soulswap baseline for target switching at the cost of 1 soulshard as it did in WoD.

Single target as it is, Is fine but our multi target sustained is not. To make this happen you do not need to touch our single target either.
03/15/2017 08:43 PMPosted by Izuni
03/13/2017 03:26 AMPosted by Anuï
the fantasy of being a DoT casting class, as we literally will have to sacrifice DoT uptime just to keep those drain soul procs rolling.


I think the big problem with this version of MG is they basically did not listen to us when we said we wanted MG back. The old one did a portion of your DoT damage as opposed to increasing your damage on to your target by X amount. Sounds similar but it does create situations where instead of trying to keep 100% uptime on all DoTs you have to let SL and sometimes even Corruption fall off just to make sure you get that extra Tick of an UA buffed by MG. Had they just did the effect of old MG they not only did not have to nerf it but also could of kept the WiA/Effigy combo that some people liked.

If i could be perfectly honest, they should swap Haunt and Effigy's places on the tree, making haunt the ST, PS(add haste/mastery scaling it this) for AoE, and Conduit for cleave. Then of course change MG to how it used to be.


There's no reason for haunt not to be baseline at this point, Phantom singularity needs to go.

1 minute cooldown is absurd.

I totally agree though I remember back in previous expansions dropping dots was so detrimental to damage and keeping them up was important as well as refreshing them during pandemic.

Having to drop dots to channel malefic grasp for more damage is horrible as is having to tunnel a boss and only apply agony or corruption on extra adds for an artifact proc.

The moment we switch off the boss onto an add wasting gcd's and channeling it's a dps loss.

It's as follows, Apply dots to boss>reap>drain until all UA's are gone (even if it means dropping corruption and SL)

Then all the wasted time spend applying 5 UA's. UA is just another DoT throttle if you ask me.

Wasted casts which makes us immobile in pve/pvp.
03/15/2017 07:39 PMPosted by Sigma
Dungeon runs themselves are meant to be a continuous challenge of combat


Hello bolstering, as well as some of your new affixes that encourage waiting in between pulls.

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