Max Wep Rank in 7.2 requires 900 trillion AP

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03/25/2017 11:03 PMPosted by Felidaryss
So.. To max out your weapon, you're looking at running Maw of Souls every 10 minutes, for several years straight :D Yay!

No No No No No No No No No. Stop these overly nonsense exageration posts.

It's very simple. Blizzard doesn't want or expect ANYONE to grind out a maxed out artifact. . They said this flat out.

People who do try to grind out a maxed out artifact should be grouped with the same morons that camped Poundfist back in WoD for 96 hours straight, missing work, not sleep and not taking bathroom breaks.

JUST. LET. IT. GO!
I suspect that putting the endless grind of D3 into WoW is going to turn off a lot of players who prefer WoW over D3 due to the former's historical trend of having limited grinds (ex., reputations, legendary ring upgrades) vs. endless ones.

Limited grinds give a person an eventual sense of completion and, therefore, accomplishment that one can never get from an endless grind. If I don't believe that there is a definite ending to any particular grind (with definite rewards at that ending), I don't even want to bother with starting it. Having definite ends to grinds also free up people to work on their alts (or even other specs) with a clean conscience.

Endless grinds keep people from ever having that triumphant, mountain-peak moment where they've fully conquered a task and can then move on to another task (or climbing that "mountain" again on another character). How many people want to run in a race where the finish line is effectively unreachable? "Oh, we designed the race so that people just keep running until they get too tired or bored to continue."

And if Blizzard thinks that people will go casual on AP grinding just because the cap is effectively limitless, they can think again. This kind of effectively endless grind really encourages an unhealthy level of gameplay and player burnout.
People not being able to control themselves is not Blizzards problem. If people get burned out trying to grind this, then that's on them.
Which is why I am throwing in the towel now. Grinding for what? To start all over again next expansion? No thanks.
03/26/2017 12:54 PMPosted by Cartis
It's very simple. Blizzard doesn't want or expect ANYONE to grind out a maxed out artifact. . They said this flat out.


And then they went and balanced the latter part of Nighthold around 54 traits.
So, in a month or two we will start to see posts by hardcores saying that they have given up on the game because they have spend 23 hours a day grinding ap and have finally reached the point of exhaustion.

Not sure how I feel. I kinda like grinding obtainable goals and was quite pleased with myself for reaching 54 traits and not needing to be concerned with AP anymore. If its practically impossible to reach the goal then I'm not going to feel much incentive to pursue it. I just hope the traits don't end up being so powerful that I'm left at a noticeable disadvantage.

I suppose that if I were in charge of it I would have just added time gated levels so that I could have multiple plateaus to reach instead of a point that forever lingers in the distance.
03/26/2017 01:26 PMPosted by Gîsco
03/26/2017 12:54 PMPosted by Cartis
It's very simple. Blizzard doesn't want or expect ANYONE to grind out a maxed out artifact. . They said this flat out.


And then they went and balanced the latter part of Nighthold around 54 traits.


This - Ignoring the giant daunting wall of the artifact grind, its the fact that Blizzard balanced the mythic raid around having max traits. If they want to have this be a never ending grind fine - but then they cant balance around having ANY points into the unlimited trait. Cause once they do, it becomes mandatory.
Blizzard intentionally made the grind impossible (literally, with AK 50 you won't have enough time to max your weapon even if you chain farm all day long) and not rewarding in order to deter people from binging it to the end like with the AK25 one.

At this point, one might very well be asking why they even have a grind in the first place, but that was the dev's reasoning.
Wow this post blew up!

My own two cents... I'd rather they put an attainable AP in reach, that didn't require so much balancing. Personally, I only JUST hit 54 and that's as a semi-casual mythic raider (who just got 3/10).

I have no intention of trying to max out concordance of the legionfall hahaha. I just thought it was silly that even if you WANTED to max it out, you'd spend years doing it.
God, the idea of doing all this all over again next expansion makes me a little nauseous.
03/25/2017 11:23 PMPosted by Fiznazzle
Is there no content in 7.2 that's a better grind that Maw? Sounds like the reasonable thing, but never know.


They increased the amount of AP earned when having to complete longer Dungeons. Maw will give you for example 100k and Valor would give you 200k..something like that. So that way there's incentive to do longer ones because in the end it will at least balance out.
03/26/2017 02:11 PMPosted by Dliver
God, the idea of doing all this all over again next expansion makes me a little nauseous.


We won't be using artifacts in the next x-pac, Blizz has already stated that. How they will be replaced hasn't been revealed.

I like the Artifacts myself. The grind is long but then again...it is an MMO.
03/26/2017 01:27 PMPosted by Skettles
So, in a month or two we will start to see posts by hardcores saying that they have given up on the game because they have spend 23 hours a day grinding ap and have finally reached the point of exhaustion.

Not sure how I feel. I kinda like grinding obtainable goals and was quite pleased with myself for reaching 54 traits and not needing to be concerned with AP anymore. If its practically impossible to reach the goal then I'm not going to feel much incentive to pursue it. I just hope the traits don't end up being so powerful that I'm left at a noticeable disadvantage.

I suppose that if I were in charge of it I would have just added time gated levels so that I could have multiple plateaus to reach instead of a point that forever lingers in the distance.


That's exactly the point. You're not supposed to pursue it. You're supposed to play the game however you want and then just use the AP you get along the way. Very gradually, you'll get slightly buffed for doing this. It's not a big buff, but it acts as a very slight soft nerf on content you might be struggling with.

And no, they won't be tuning mythic raiding around having this if people will control themselves. They had to retune NH because of the people who maxed out their weapons in November, two months before the raid released. Remember how it went back on the PTR even though it had been tested a ton in beta since it was initially intended as a release raid? Yeah, that's when they did that.

I mean, do you hear yourselves and how crazy so much of this thread sounds? I strongly suspect the majority of the people in the game get how AP is supposed to work. I can tell you that most of my guild doesn't care about it beyond what they get from what they're doing already. There are only three of us with one maxed weapon each, with two of us having just gotten there this week, right before the patch.

I think the system is set up just fine. You can't "complete" an MMO. That seems like a really strange way to look at things to me. That's part of the fun, there's always something to do.
03/26/2017 03:58 PMPosted by Adalia
03/26/2017 01:27 PMPosted by Skettles
So, in a month or two we will start to see posts by hardcores saying that they have given up on the game because they have spend 23 hours a day grinding ap and have finally reached the point of exhaustion.

Not sure how I feel. I kinda like grinding obtainable goals and was quite pleased with myself for reaching 54 traits and not needing to be concerned with AP anymore. If its practically impossible to reach the goal then I'm not going to feel much incentive to pursue it. I just hope the traits don't end up being so powerful that I'm left at a noticeable disadvantage.

I suppose that if I were in charge of it I would have just added time gated levels so that I could have multiple plateaus to reach instead of a point that forever lingers in the distance.


That's exactly the point. You're not supposed to pursue it. You're supposed to play the game however you want and then just use the AP you get along the way. Very gradually, you'll get slightly buffed for doing this. It's not a big buff, but it acts as a very slight soft nerf on content you might be struggling with.

And no, they won't be tuning mythic raiding around having this if people will control themselves. They had to retune NH because of the people who maxed out their weapons in November, two months before the raid released. Remember how it went back on the PTR even though it had been tested a ton in beta since it was initially intended as a release raid? Yeah, that's when they did that.

I mean, do you hear yourselves and how crazy so much of this thread sounds? I strongly suspect the majority of the people in the game get how AP is supposed to work. I can tell you that most of my guild doesn't care about it beyond what they get from what they're doing already. There are only three of us with one maxed weapon each, with two of us having just gotten there this week, right before the patch.

I think the system is set up just fine. You can't "complete" an MMO. That seems like a really strange way to look at things to me. That's part of the fun, there's always something to do.


I mean, conversely though... What's the value in having a trait that really would take 20 years to do? If it really isn't supposed to be there, then why on earth does it exist in the first place?
03/25/2017 11:13 PMPosted by Xuanney
We're probably going to need to count our AP using log notation in 7.3 lol


Our calculators are not prepared. :(
My understanding is that the way the concordance proc works it's mostly a waste of time to grind further levels of it. The system is set up such that you don't feel obligated to grind but that it allows for a cushion for 7.3 where you can accumulate AP and not be forced to simply vendor the tokens because you hit a flat wall.
Now people can't "win the game" so it takes away a lot of the reason to even bother playing. Few people are willing to content themselves with a game that is mathematically impossible to win.


That seems like an irrational emotional response to me. We'll effectively hit a cap at some point where the returns for time invested are extremely minimal. That will essentially be when we've "won."

However, because people aren't seeing a maxed out number like 54/54 traits they decide to get angry and feel unfulfilled. That's not Blizzard's fault, it's the fault of players who have very specific desires and weird fetishes for completion.
03/26/2017 04:33 PMPosted by Felidaryss

I mean, conversely though... What's the value in having a trait that really would take 20 years to do? If it really isn't supposed to be there, then why on earth does it exist in the first place?


The value is that AP doesn't become worthless vendor trash. They'll almost certainly raise AK again in 7.3 so that it's not a 20 year grind regardless, but the point is to make it so that even the people who grind out a lot of stuff will still be rewarded for their efforts. They will still get a slight increase every once in a while. They want you to be able to kill a boss, not get any loot, and think, "Well, at least I got some AP," instead of feeling like you came out of the experience with nothing at all.

I found previous hardcaps, such as that found on valor, to be very annoying. Many weeks, I might not feel like running a bunch of dungeons, and then I wouldn't reach cap and it would feel like a "waste." But then, on times when I felt like running a bunch of dungeons, say if I was working on a Glory achievement, or was helping gear up a friend, or whatever, I'd hit cap and it would feel like even more of a waste, because I was doing things that wouldn't reward me anymore. Additionally, with things like gear upgrades, as a single spec playing pure dps, it was usually pretty quick for me to upgrade all of my gear, and then valor felt completely pointless. I still have several upgrades worth sitting in my currency tab that I just got from doing stuff I was already doing and never had a use for.

This makes it so that AP is never, ever a waste. There's always going to be a use for it. There's also no hitting a point where doing more content feels like a waste because you're not getting rewarded anymore. It's a consolation prize that occasionally will buff you a tiny amount.
03/25/2017 11:05 PMPosted by Felidaryss
03/25/2017 11:04 PMPosted by Tuskini
...max artifact knowledge is going up. Your math is a moot point.


Max AK is currently 50, and that's reflected in the post


Thirteen years. Wow.
There are clear problems though with this system. The first one being in pvp, if all traits remain active in pvp, someone who has a higher ilevel could theoretically be more powerful than someone without one. Just strong enough to get the killing blow on someone who is equally skilled as them.

For pve, the same thing applies. Yes, the return diminishes but depending on how powerful the talent is, it could be enough to get you the kill.

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