7.2.5 Enhancement Class Discussion

Class Development
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Dear Blizzard,

I think I speak for all of us when I say: Please make the new Baseline Boulderfist sound like current Boulderfist and not Rockbiter.

Thank you.
04/18/2017 07:18 AMPosted by Demosthena
Dear Blizzard,

I think I speak for all of us when I say: Please make the new Baseline Boulderfist sound like current Boulderfist and not Rockbiter.

Thank you.

So I just recently went back to Boulderfist, and I couldn't agree more. The thumping is so much better. Ahhh....
Boulderfist also has a nicer ring to it. Rockbiter sounds small and weak, while Boulderfist sounds so good.
The shaman's interrupt and Hex also need to be looked at. I honestly cant believe you haven't looked at these two already.

If hex is going to have a CD, it needs to be instant cast. If you keep the CD it has to do a helleva lot more, like drain 10% life ea sec healing the shaman.

Wind Shear just flat out needs to be buffed. The length of spell lock needs another 7 secs added to it and it should also disarm too.
There was a suggestion back on page 5 that I'd really love the developers to consider. The idea was to remove the cooldown from Stormstrike and make Lava Lash only work off a Hot Hands type proc at no maelstrom cost. The talent could then let the proc have an additional charge.

Feels to me like that would solve so many issues. It would make Ascendance work as a viable talent choice. Would make it so that Tempest was no longer mandatory. Would give us the ability to dump maelstrom during lust (when we are overflowing) by spamming SS which feels great currently whenever we get lucky with SB procs.

It would also make all those maelstrom generating traits more valuable since more maelstrom would be more stormstrikes without it all being at the whim of RNG procs. Would also give us some potential burst on demand for target swapping by staying near full just prior to a swap and then spamming SS till empty. Spirit of the Maelstrom trait could also come in to play there too. Time off target as a ghost wolf generating maelstrom that could immediately be put to use whenever you got back into melee range.

As for Lava Lash, it would then be a button that you would want to hit rather then one you were stuck hitting because you had no better option. Would still require proper prioritization for max performance but in a fun way. Tune things right and LL should then fall under SB-SS, FT, and OC-LB but above SS with LL rising in priority if Lashing Flames might cap out.

I'm sure there are issues with making such a change at this stage of the expansion but mentally, to me, the concept just resonates.
And the changes on the PTR are EXACTLY why I don't trust Blizz to not make things worse. For starters the changes are incomplete since we don't even have a third talent for lvl100 which means things can't really be tested that well. Earthen Spike doesn't synergize that well, especially with so much emphasis on LL these days. Ascendance is just a joke that has already been covered.

Then we get to what is listed vs what we actually have on the PTR. "Baseline BF" means we don't get the +5% damage boost. No, the +5% damage boost is still tied to the Boulderfist talent (along with the BF attack noise). Yes it's still a talent. Landslide is listed as the new lvl15 talent in the notes but on the PTR it's just gone. There's currently NO talent that adds +8% agility in our talent tree.

I get that things are changing but what was put on the PTR is just flat out unsat. The official notes don't match what we were given, what was changed leaves us in a worse spot than before, talents are missing, another talent is back on it's way to being useless (Fury of Air), and at least with what's on the PTR we were effectively lied to about the BF talent being made baseline as the 5% damage buff is still a talent. This reeks of 7.1.5 all over again where we got half-assed changes (and promises of mandatory talents being made baseline...which never happened) that left us in such a poor situation.

HOPEFULLY things will get better in upcoming builds (I mean they would hopefully not let complete removal of a talent with no replacement go live at the very least...) but imo this is a poor start and isn't doing anything to ease the shaman community's concerns or distrust.
That was an error in today's PTR build. Landslide should be in the third slot in L15 (as the patch notes described).
04/18/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Sigma
That was an error in today's PTR build. Landslide should be in the third slot in L15 (as the patch notes described).


Thanks for the fast response. Good to know that it's an error with the PTR build at least. Is the +5% damage buff going away completely, actually being made baseline, or getting rolled into the talent?

Also I understand that things like that happen. I'm just a bit, hesitant, go give blind faith as I've played Vanilla->Cata as enh, quit, came back for Legion, and during all that time Blizz hasn't exactly had the best of track records with the spec.
04/18/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Sigma
That was an error in today's PTR build. Landslide should be in the third slot in L15 (as the patch notes described).


Soooooo... what's going in the level 100 talent slot that's sitting empty?

Outside of Havoc/Vengence where talents were still being ironed out during Beta, I don't think I remember a blank talent spot having ever existed before. Kind of weirding me out.

Secondary note, while he's getting downvoted, I agree with Darig. The loss of 8% agility from Landslide is going to suck. We'd need some pretty sizable buffs all around to compensate for something like that just going away.

Also, pleeeeeease see the post at the top of this page. Rockbiter just has no weight to it's attack sound. I recognize this is small, but Landslide shouldn't be what makes a builder sound good. Rockbiter sounds wimpy. It's up there with that filler for Fury Warriors when they don't crit/enrage (not quite that bad, mind you, but close).
04/18/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Sigma
That was an error in today's PTR build. Landslide should be in the third slot in L15 (as the patch notes described).


So does this mean that Boulderfist naturally has the 5% damage boost? Or is that just gutted so we have to choose between 8% agi or Hot hand?

That comes off as a hard nerf if the 5% damage boost is just removed outright.

Also waiting to see what you replace the 100 talent row with and I won't lie to say I'd be disappointed if it turns out to just be the Boulderfist talent.

I'm gearing up for Elemental because I have very little faith that the changes will address the core issues with the spec. Ultimately it's up to you guys to prove me wrong.
so is the new talent gonna play just like bf? i can't stand rocbiter always liked bf better and the way it plays out. 4piece tier kept me playin my sham, hot hands ain't for me. i honestly don't want a bunch changes this late in an expansion just fix what we got.
04/18/2017 10:15 PMPosted by Darigaaz
04/18/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Sigma
That was an error in today's PTR build. Landslide should be in the third slot in L15 (as the patch notes described).


Thanks for the fast response. Good to know that it's an error with the PTR build at least. Is the +5% damage buff going away completely, actually being made baseline, or getting rolled into the talent?


Please don't overly focus on the 5% damage buff on Boulderfist. Blizzard's already said they're going to do tuning passes last after the design, whether they roll the damage back into the talent (which is unlikely, seeing as landslide is going in its place) or elsewhere in the spec, what does it matter?

You're sweating the details when we're way too early in the process for that.

04/18/2017 11:46 PMPosted by Likmytotems
so is the new talent gonna play just like bf? i can't stand rocbiter always liked bf better and the way it plays out. 4piece tier kept me playin my sham, hot hands ain't for me. i honestly don't want a bunch changes this late in an expansion just fix what we got.


You're gonna be able to play like the boulderfist play style no matter which talent you take, it's being made baseline, just called rockbiter instead.
As a pvper , enhance is fine . The new gold trait works beautifully especially if you pick up hot hands . I would rather get rng procs than have to wait 1.5 minutes for every burst window. Some talents do need reworking BUT LIGHTNING SHIELD DOES NOT NEED TO BE PUT IN HONOR TALENT TREE!!!! nobody uses that in pvp no enhance shaman worth a damn. Sounds to me like this is a list of changes wanted for pvers not pvpers . Not saying everything is all bad , not at all . But anything that changes core mechanics would be not good. Im not a mythic raider but i do top dps in the raids i do attend . Enhance is fine , could use a few tweaks , i dont even agree with making boulderfist baseline , with new gold trait rockbiter spam isnt so bad picking up hot hands . I mean are you guys really not getting procs all the time. Im steadily getting plenty of procs to keep my damage flowing and thats in pve situation in nighthold with my current LOW mastery based gear . So i know you guys who are stacking mastery have to be getting procs all the time. Im sure blizz will just go whatever their pve player base says and rework this class some of us have come to enjoy so much, but i dont think its right to put something in the game and just because its not what some people want rework the class so much. Ill probably get downvoted but if enhance becomes unplayable for me due to what the pve community wants to do to enhance and i didnt say anything i wouldn't feel like i did my part forthr the people are playing enhance at r1 and galdiator and rocking the pvp scene with their earthen warriors. So many non competitive pvpers have been complaining so much about enhance now i read a blue post sayig they are looking at changing tempest - stormbringer. So so sad. Enhance gets reworked might be the nail in the coffin for me , not interested in learning a new class , not only that i have 5 toons at max level none of them even come close to the level of enjoyment i get playing enhance .
These most recent changes have me real nervous, but I'll wait until more info to start gloomhammering hard.

I just hope blizzard realizes that the changes so far appear to be a damage nerf to a spec that very much cannot afford to lose more damage.
As a pvper , enhance is fine ... Im not a mythic raider but i do top dps in the raids i do attend . Enhance is fine , could use a few tweaks


Enhancement is far from fine in PvE, which has been the entire thrust of the feedback post. Please refrain from posting pointless personal anecdotes about PVE raid damage output when you yourself admit you have no real experience in actual raid content. I get that you have PvP concerns, but, again, that has no bearing on any of the feedback in this thread.
Just copy the icon/sound into rockbiter, I hate how rockbiter sounds and feels. I'm also scared what blizzard has planned, I have little to no faith in them when it comes to Ench.
04/18/2017 10:15 PMPosted by Darigaaz
...

Thanks for the fast response. Good to know that it's an error with the PTR build at least. Is the +5% damage buff going away completely, actually being made baseline, or getting rolled into the talent?


Please don't overly focus on the 5% damage buff on Boulderfist. Blizzard's already said they're going to do tuning passes last after the design, whether they roll the damage back into the talent (which is unlikely, seeing as landslide is going in its place) or elsewhere in the spec, what does it matter?

You're sweating the details when we're way too early in the process for that.


You mean like the 7.1.5 tuning pass where we took decent nerf? Given past history if we don't bring things up now then we're likely to get hosed in the final patch. Hell even if we do bring it up now we can still end up hosed in the final patch but at least we tried.
04/19/2017 02:18 AMPosted by Bobdylan
As a pvper , enhance is fine ... Im not a mythic raider but i do top dps in the raids i do attend . Enhance is fine , could use a few tweaks


Enhancement is far from fine in PvE, which has been the entire thrust of the feedback post. Please refrain from posting pointless personal anecdotes about PVE raid damage output when you yourself admit you have no real experience in actual raid content. I get that you have PvP concerns, but, again, that has no bearing on any of the feedback in this thread.
It does have bearing on this thread because this is the enh shaman feedback thread and some things that might be fine for PvE are bad for PvP. I get that a lot of people don't do PvP but that's no excuse to add mechanics that break us in PvP. And why would those things potentially be added? Because of this thread. As of right now we're already looking like we're going to lose FoA due to BF being baseline and not having the MST generation to support it, they don't need to screw us over even more.
04/18/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Sigma
That was an error in today's PTR build. Landslide should be in the third slot in L15 (as the patch notes described).


@Sigma - Do you like it when players iterate on ideas for the spec? or would you prefer if we stick to posting just about our impressions of your iterations? do you like it if we bring up numbers?

Was writing up a thing about maybe reviving Maelstrom Weapon (stacking buff from melee attacks that lets you fire off something like an Elemental Blast at 5 stacks) as the new 100 talent but then thought that I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

I think a lot of us are being a bit gingerly atm cause we are so stunned to get any sort of developer interaction that we are afraid of scaring you away. Basically, outside of this forum being a great place for people to vent, how should we use it best to help you to help us?
04/19/2017 09:26 AMPosted by Rouncer
(stacking buff from melee attacks that lets you fire off something like an Elemental Blast at 5 stacks)


Loathe Overcharge, would totally use this talent though (assuming it works like it does for Elemental with the stat boost, though we'd need something to replicate the "double boost" possible for elemental on occasion), especially over Earthen Spike/Ascendance.

That or something maybe similar to Elemental's 15 tier with the totem drops that provide you with various buffs. While I don't miss that pea-shooter fire totem, I do kind of miss dropping them on occasion.
04/19/2017 09:30 AMPosted by Demosthena
04/19/2017 09:26 AMPosted by Rouncer
(stacking buff from melee attacks that lets you fire off something like an Elemental Blast at 5 stacks)


Loathe Overcharge, would totally use this talent though (assuming it works like it does for Elemental with the stat boost, though we'd need something to replicate the "double boost" possible for elemental on occasion), especially over Earthen Spike/Ascendance.

That or something maybe similar to Elemental's 15 tier with the totem drops that provide you with various buffs. While I don't miss that pea-shooter fire totem, I do kind of miss dropping them on occasion.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of Overchange either. Thought I would really like it too, but the micromanaging of maelstrom just felt wonky and annoying. Making sure to have X amount ready for when it came off cooldown, it just didn't work for me (also like using LB to pull in a bunch of mobs for cleaving when doing WQs so didn't like adding a cooldown to it).

Do miss Maelstrom Weapon though. Loved the stacking and firing off an instant cast nuke at 5 stacks. Also love the graphics for Elemental Blast so thought that combining the two could be fun, especially if it didn't involve any additional micromanaging outside of knowing it's place in a priority list.

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