7.2.5 Enhancement Class Discussion

Class Development
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06/12/2017 02:07 PMPosted by Ryethe
06/12/2017 01:41 PMPosted by Terrenar
Im looking at the changes and assume were going to be using ES. If thats the case then are we just a subpar version of a Ret?

ES and Asc are both on par with one another. Each shines in its own situations.


Thank you friend.
So I've been on vacation and taking a break in general. Is HH still viable with the proc nerf, what legendaries are shaping up to be our general best, and are Hailstorm/FoA now viable with their buffs or do they require specific leggos to be viable?
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.

The thinking above is still true, and something we want to keep an eye on, but the changes already in place mean the numbers are quite different from the 7.0 version. In 7.0, if you had e.g. a 10% chance to proc from Stormstrike (main hand only), and 0% from Lava Lash and Boulderfist (and the procs were worth double due to Tempest), there was a huge swing in proc chance between using 3 Stormstrikes and using 3 other buttons. In 7.2.5, you may have 8% from the Lava Lash and Rockbiter, and 16% from the Stormstrike, and the a proc causes you to replace 2 other buttons with 2 Stormstrikes. The swing is much smaller now.

Because the 7.2.5 changes would already reduce the streakiness of Stormbringer procs (and because allowing offhands to proc is slightly more consistent with the tooltips), we'll let that play out on live and inform whether we need to make future changes to mitigate that streakiness further.
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.
*Snip*


Ye great, now go and answer the other classes that are having gameplay issues Instead of focusing on one spec with this very minor change.

Feels like I've crossed into a parrarel universe where blizzard actually exists and communicates.
06/12/2017 07:54 PMPosted by Sigma
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.

The thinking above is still true, and something we want to keep an eye on, but the changes already in place mean the numbers are quite different from the 7.0 version. In 7.0, if you had e.g. a 10% chance to proc from Stormstrike (main hand only), and 0% from Lava Lash and Boulderfist (and the procs were worth double due to Tempest), there was a huge swing in proc chance between using 3 Stormstrikes and using 3 other buttons. In 7.2.5, you may have 8% from the Lava Lash and Rockbiter, and 16% from the Stormstrike, and the a proc causes you to replace 2 other buttons with 2 Stormstrikes. The swing is much smaller now.

Because the 7.2.5 changes would already reduce the streakiness of Stormbringer procs (and because allowing offhands to proc is slightly more consistent with the tooltips), we'll let that play out on live and inform whether we need to make future changes to mitigate that streakiness further.

Wow, that's great news, thank you for letting us know. I'm sure Purge, Wordup, and Russah will get that updated in the sims soon, probably just reverting a workaround. I'm sure the folks who love the Stormstrike chains will be very pleased with this change. Thanks again for the communication.
06/12/2017 07:54 PMPosted by Sigma
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.

The thinking above is still true, and something we want to keep an eye on, but the changes already in place mean the numbers are quite different from the 7.0 version. In 7.0, if you had e.g. a 10% chance to proc from Stormstrike (main hand only), and 0% from Lava Lash and Boulderfist (and the procs were worth double due to Tempest), there was a huge swing in proc chance between using 3 Stormstrikes and using 3 other buttons. In 7.2.5, you may have 8% from the Lava Lash and Rockbiter, and 16% from the Stormstrike, and the a proc causes you to replace 2 other buttons with 2 Stormstrikes. The swing is much smaller now.

Because the 7.2.5 changes would already reduce the streakiness of Stormbringer procs (and because allowing offhands to proc is slightly more consistent with the tooltips), we'll let that play out on live and inform whether we need to make future changes to mitigate that streakiness further.


Awesome news, thanks for the update. The occasional streakiness made enhance a lot of fun to play. I'm glad it's under control but not completely gone.
06/12/2017 08:15 PMPosted by Nexro
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.
*Snip*


Ye great, now go and answer the other classes that are having gameplay issues Instead of focusing on one spec with this very minor change.

Feels like I've crossed into a parrarel universe where blizzard actually exists and communicates.


This isn't a "very minor" change. This is a very SIGNIFICANT change for our dps.
And them focusing on "one spec" is a fairly last minute thing that we've needed. I don't know if you've noticed, but Enh has been bullocks since 7.1.5, and it's been painful to play them.
06/12/2017 08:15 PMPosted by Nexro
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.
*Snip*


Ye great, now go and answer the other classes that are having gameplay issues Instead of focusing on one spec with this very minor change.

Feels like I've crossed into a parrarel universe where blizzard actually exists and communicates.

yikes, you need to go to bed
06/12/2017 08:15 PMPosted by Nexro
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.
*Snip*


Ye great, now go and answer the other classes that are having gameplay issues Instead of focusing on one spec with this very minor change.

Feels like I've crossed into a parrarel universe where blizzard actually exists and communicates.


You're not yourself when you're hungry, eat a snickers.
06/12/2017 07:54 PMPosted by Sigma
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.

The thinking above is still true, and something we want to keep an eye on, but the changes already in place mean the numbers are quite different from the 7.0 version. In 7.0, if you had e.g. a 10% chance to proc from Stormstrike (main hand only), and 0% from Lava Lash and Boulderfist (and the procs were worth double due to Tempest), there was a huge swing in proc chance between using 3 Stormstrikes and using 3 other buttons. In 7.2.5, you may have 8% from the Lava Lash and Rockbiter, and 16% from the Stormstrike, and the a proc causes you to replace 2 other buttons with 2 Stormstrikes. The swing is much smaller now.

Because the 7.2.5 changes would already reduce the streakiness of Stormbringer procs (and because allowing offhands to proc is slightly more consistent with the tooltips), we'll let that play out on live and inform whether we need to make future changes to mitigate that streakiness further.


Great!! I think that makes more sense and it will keep our special abilities like doom winds and ascendence more impactful.
06/12/2017 09:26 PMPosted by Zanazoth


This isn't a "very minor" change. This is a very SIGNIFICANT change for our dps.
And them focusing on "one spec" is a fairly last minute thing that we've needed. I don't know if you've noticed, but Enh has been bullocks since 7.1.5, and it's been painful to play them.


It isn't a change at all, he just informed the community that what they said they're doing, they're doing. It was a rather pointless post.

Considering DH has had the only actual change to mechanics reverted last minute with no explanation even though the entire community supported it, I'd say that takes precedence over; "Yeah guys we're just leaving things how we've redesigned them."
06/13/2017 12:19 AMPosted by Sunnysidéup
06/12/2017 09:26 PMPosted by Zanazoth


This isn't a "very minor" change. This is a very SIGNIFICANT change for our dps.
And them focusing on "one spec" is a fairly last minute thing that we've needed. I don't know if you've noticed, but Enh has been bullocks since 7.1.5, and it's been painful to play them.


It isn't a change at all, he just informed the community that what they said they're doing, they're doing. It was a rather pointless post.

Considering DH has had the only actual change to mechanics reverted last minute with no explanation even though the entire community supported it, I'd say that takes precedence over; "Yeah guys we're just leaving things how we've redesigned them."


You definitely misread. PTR until now has not allowed SS OHs to generate SB. This is a change and a buff.
06/12/2017 07:54 PMPosted by Sigma
We talked about it more and decided to let Stormstrike and Windstrike offhand attacks proc Stormbringer for now.

The thinking above is still true, and something we want to keep an eye on, but the changes already in place mean the numbers are quite different from the 7.0 version. In 7.0, if you had e.g. a 10% chance to proc from Stormstrike (main hand only), and 0% from Lava Lash and Boulderfist (and the procs were worth double due to Tempest), there was a huge swing in proc chance between using 3 Stormstrikes and using 3 other buttons. In 7.2.5, you may have 8% from the Lava Lash and Rockbiter, and 16% from the Stormstrike, and the a proc causes you to replace 2 other buttons with 2 Stormstrikes. The swing is much smaller now.

Because the 7.2.5 changes would already reduce the streakiness of Stormbringer procs (and because allowing offhands to proc is slightly more consistent with the tooltips), we'll let that play out on live and inform whether we need to make future changes to mitigate that streakiness further.


Good. If you ever revert it, I want a GM to personally show up an apologize to me every time Stormstrike completes a full cooldown. More procs boi.
06/13/2017 01:33 AMPosted by Ryethe
06/13/2017 12:19 AMPosted by Sunnysidéup
...

It isn't a change at all, he just informed the community that what they said they're doing, they're doing. It was a rather pointless post.

Considering DH has had the only actual change to mechanics reverted last minute with no explanation even though the entire community supported it, I'd say that takes precedence over; "Yeah guys we're just leaving things how we've redesigned them."


You definitely misread. PTR until now has not allowed SS OHs to generate SB. This is a change and a buff.

Moreover, it's the sort of change that isn't dataminable, so the only way for the community to determine the change happened on its own is to have people spam stormstrike into a dummy for a long time searching for double procs.
06/12/2017 07:54 PMPosted by Sigma
Because the 7.2.5 changes would already reduce the streakiness of Stormbringer procs (and because allowing offhands to proc is slightly more consistent with the tooltips), we'll let that play out on live and inform whether we need to make future changes to mitigate that streakiness further.


stormstrike spam is FUN

lava lash, bolderfist and poxy little buffs are not. The longer I have to wait for those powerful, fight ending chains the worse enhancement is going to feel
Hey, guys, just wondering what the optimal talent loadout is going to be now, especially with SS and windstrike offhand hits proccing SS. Is OC and ES going to be mandatory?
There are some enh shammies that will cry regardless of what happens. Most of the babies are not even mythic raiders. Enh shammies are gonna be good in this patch.
06/13/2017 08:31 AMPosted by Stormfinger
There are some enh shammies that will cry regardless of what happens. Most of the babies are not even mythic raiders. Enh shammies are gonna be good in this patch.


enh shammies are not even mythic raiders. *fixed
06/13/2017 08:27 AMPosted by Actionn
Hey, guys, just wondering what the optimal talent loadout is going to be now, especially with SS and windstrike offhand hits proccing SS. Is OC and ES going to be mandatory?


Based on WordUp updating his guide on Icy Veins now, it's looking like... not so much.

That row is so close in damage output that you can almost play what you want... and apparently Spike and Ascendance are close enough that again, do what you want.

But, if you're doing ES or OC, you're likely going to want the other with their inherent synergy.

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