PSA: Creatures now scale with item level

General Discussion
Prev 1 141 142 143 408 Next
03/29/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Kyarine
03/29/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Lithlithel
Why make us 5% stronger if its not actually going to be 5% stronger...


Because you become stronger to do harder raid and dungeon content. You get that gear so you can take down Gul'dan or Kil'Jaeden, not because your goal is to kill bears faster. They're just keeping the open world content relevant.


Some people do that. Some people do not but essentially the logic is the same and you are making an arbitrary divide between world content and dungeon and raid content. If one aspect of the game is going to scale with gear then there is no reason to arbitrarily separate the other parts. Either players get more powerful or they do not and the place where it matters the least is in the open world.

This is a "problem" only if you sit around and worry about somebody somewhere doing something "too easily" while sitting on their butt playing a video game. Something that 99% of the people on the planet would consider spending any time thinking about to be a complete waste of time.

The devs have a some sort of screwed up sense or morality or protestant work ethic and spend way too much time worrying about over-rewarding people for sitting on their butts. At the end of the day, fun is the reward more than anything else and they continually show that the only thing they think is fun and deserving of continuous progression is high-end raids and dungeons.
03/29/2017 01:05 PMPosted by Shadowdamna
For those who keep saying Ion didn't lie about this and it was an unintentional omission from the patch notes..... I went and rummaged and found it.

Ion - September 2016, interview on Twitch when asked about mobs scaling to ilvl..

"There would be problems if we tried to do that, That would go too far in undermining the core sense of power progression that is part of an MMO ... The intent is that the content is is something you outgear and outpower eventually."
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/88435402?t=1h10m34s


And this right here is why I am angry as hell with the developers and Blizzard in general atm, not because of the scaling system. I don't financially support bold-face lying companies. I know quitting and losing my measly 15 bucks a month won't make or break the company, but when do you get to the point of "enough is enough, if they can't even be honest with me, why should I be giving them ANY of my hard-earned money?" Ask yourself this question if you still insist on supporting or white-knighting for Blizzard.
03/29/2017 12:55 PMPosted by Velobro
Just adding another voice to the masses. I am 100% quitting if this change isn't reverted.


My thoughts exactly, i LOVE to raid with my older brother and guild. All awesome people and make the game fun. But i will not stomach this underhanded BS in anyway shape or form.
03/29/2017 12:55 PMPosted by Drako
At the end of the day we don't know how long they've been working on this, my guess is for quite a while so the chances of them scrapping it are very low.

They invested time, man power, and money into it. They're not just going to throw that away, unfortunately for us.


And this should be our problem...why?
I have absolutely no interest or intention of telling Blizzard how to run their company: the inner workings of their offices are of no interest or relevance to me.

I am a PAYING CUSTOMER. My sole interest is playing this game.

To Blizzard: its broke. fix it.

now.
03/29/2017 01:06 PMPosted by Lohru
Does ilevel scaling only apply to mobs once you are level 110?


It starts taking place above item level 850. So unless you can get an item level of 850 or above before you hit 110 ...
I remember one time they said that legacy servers go against the progressive nature of MMOs, well this change goes AGAINST the nature of MMOs just as much if not more tbh.
03/29/2017 01:09 PMPosted by Stevelrwin
03/29/2017 01:05 PMPosted by Shadowdamna
For those who keep saying Ion didn't lie about this and it was an unintentional omission from the patch notes..... I went and rummaged and found it.

Ion - September 2016, interview on Twitch when asked about mobs scaling to ilvl..

"There would be problems if we tried to do that, That would go too far in undermining the core sense of power progression that is part of an MMO ... The intent is that the content is is something you outgear and outpower eventually."
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/88435402?t=1h10m34s


And this right here is why I am angry as hell with the developers and Blizzard in general atm, not because of the scaling system. I don't financially support bold-face lying companies. I know quitting and losing my measly 15 bucks a month won't make or break the company, but when do you get to the point of "enough is enough, if they can't even be honest with me, why should I be giving them ANY of my hard-earned money?" Ask yourself this question if you still insist on supporting or white-knighting for Blizzard.


It's because we're addicts. We're junkies and blizz knows it. How many junkies quit their drug when their dealers are being !@#$%^-s?
I think the thing to keep in mind with this change, dear Blizzard employee who may read this, is that one of the strongest aspects of Legion so far has been the wide variety of content that you have offered and the scaling rewards that are appropriate. The problem with this scaling from a fairly hardcore raider (I am item level 911 equipped and 7/10M, so not shabby) is that I am not rewarded for this extra time like I would be for everything else because your rewards stop scaling after 865 in the open world. The rewards become mostly trivial so yes, the challenge in kind should become mostly trivial. If something takes .5 seconds to kill, so be it because for challenging content there are rare mobs that still have quite a bit of health to them, instanced content such as mythic + and raids, or even something like the brawler’s guild and the soon to be introduced class challenges. This doesn’t affect me much, I am highly skilled and highly geared and I am going to smash stuff regardless of this change, but I feel like this is trying to solve a problem that does not exist and creates one in the process. Things dying too fast in certain areas when there are so many opportunities to challenge yourself is, dare I say, literally never a problem. And I care a great deal about the integrity of the word ‘literally.’

Revert this change and let people crash into the already time consuming, challenging, and most of all fun content that you have created.
03/29/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Kyarine
03/29/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Lithlithel
Why make us 5% stronger if its not actually going to be 5% stronger...


Because you become stronger to do harder raid and dungeon content. You get that gear so you can take down Gul'dan or Kil'Jaeden, not because your goal is to kill bears faster. They're just keeping the open world content relevant.


It's relevance is meaningless if enemies in the world continue to scale higher with better gear. If mobs continue to scale higher and higher, the payout from those mobs should be significantly higher.

From an end user prospective, this was never broken in the first place. I get that most of Blizzard's decisions are more than likely made by some sort of data driven metric, but there's a fine line between "what the data tells you" and "is this organically fun for the end user."
I don't have a problem with death touching mobs. It's a nice change of pace after having gone through mythic raids and gotten all this gear.

I think an easier solution for everyone is remove mob scaling, but put in more summonable solo bosses that give a decent repeatable reward, scale to you, and have worldquest appropriate challenging mechanics.

Edit: These kinds of changes should be discussed with the community before they're implemented Blizzard. You said it wouldn't be implemented and now it is. If we had time to discuss them rather than have it snuck up on us, we'd probably respond a lot better.
I really hate this underhanded lying and large amounts of "undocumented changes" that have become commonplace with Watcher becoming lead dev. The developers posts feel disingenuous these days, as if they're not with us, they're against us.

This change is terrible, stop taking us for idiots and be honest and forthright with your ideas and changes. If you try to sneak something under the radar we WILL see it and it will become public knowledge very quickly.

As a customer and a shareholder I'm disgusted by what I've been seeing from Blizzard lately in terms of customer relations and current game development. Your ego is hurting this game directly, Watcher, please remember your customers are the lifeblood of the game you are leading into the future.
03/29/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Kyarine
03/29/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Lithlithel
Why make us 5% stronger if its not actually going to be 5% stronger...


Because you become stronger to do harder raid and dungeon content. You get that gear so you can take down Gul'dan or Kil'Jaeden, not because your goal is to kill bears faster. They're just keeping the open world content relevant.


No, I literally get stronger to kill bears faster.

That's pretty much my endgame.

Mowing down a group of bears with a Barrage (that now inexplicably has an arrow thwipp-thwipp sound and graphic), get the livers or eyes or pelts that I'm there for, and finish the quest to get me closer to getting the toy or mount or transmog that I might get from the caches. Or finish the questline and see the plot.

I've been in like three Mythic 0s. I haven't put one pinky toe in a normal raid. This is what I do, and what I have been doing, for much longer than the developers of the current expansion have been employed by Blizzard.

I know what I'm about.
03/29/2017 01:06 PMPosted by Ursor
Why is this a bad thing? Making the game more challenging is a good thing. Makes it more enjoyable to actually be have normal tasks be challenging. I can use my class abilities more fully. No one ever said "you have to complete every world quest that spawns". Just do a few less if it's really THAT bad.


The only way it's making the game challenging is if you only have auto attack slotted in every button on your hot bars (or you play a healer and to a lesser extent tank).

What it is actually doing is making trivial content more tedious and that is all. Trivial content that most people were already burnt out on months ago.
Did my WQs today after taking my ring off, making me 840 ilvl.

So much easier.

Good lord was it so much easier.
It's a hassle when you are trying to work on an alt.
03/28/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Watcher
To be clear, it's unacceptable to us for the "right" thing in any form to ever be equipping weaker gear, unequipping items, or doing things that in any way lower your "absolute" power.


Just to cherry-pick a statement at the start of a paragraph, that is what this change does without having to unequip items. It makes it feel as if our absolute power has decreased. Apparently even more-so for healers.

It would be a bit more understandable that the demonic forces of the legion get stronger. I wouldn't mind it if the regular inhabitants of the islands became more and more trivial as the players gained power and gear, but the Legion's demons seem to get stronger as they pour more resources into Azeroth, even if they weren't quite keeping pace.
Definitely feels like a !@#$ty change for casual players who don't gear to raid or do high mythics - makes character progression seem irrelevant. As a healer, I did notice non-elites taking an inordinate amount of time to die.
03/29/2017 06:30 AMPosted by Lissanna
Some light scaling with ilevel is probably fine, but mobs out in the world have to get increasingly easier to kill as you get more gear and experience. Things getting easier to kill as you get more gear is the entire point of getting more gear - and you'll burn people out by maintaining high difficulty levels for "farm" mobs in world quests people have already been doing for months on end.


I think this pretty much sums up the new "feature". This is an MMO, things are suppose get easier to kill as we progress. I'm not sure why this is an issue all of a sudden. In fact, I wonder if you'll loose more people to the mob getting harder vs them not being hard enough.
03/29/2017 01:13 PMPosted by Jalanili
03/29/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Kyarine
...

Because you become stronger to do harder raid and dungeon content. You get that gear so you can take down Gul'dan or Kil'Jaeden, not because your goal is to kill bears faster. They're just keeping the open world content relevant.


No, I literally get stronger to kill bears faster.

That's pretty much my endgame.

Mowing down a group of bears with a Barrage (that now inexplicably has an arrow thwipp-thwipp sound and graphic), get the livers or eyes or pelts that I'm there for, and finish the quest to get me closer to getting the toy or mount or transmog that I might get from the caches. Or finish the questline and see the plot.

I've been in like three Mythic 0s. I haven't put one pinky toe in a normal raid. This is what I do, and what I have been doing, for much longer than the developers of the current expansion have been employed by Blizzard.

I know what I'm about.


If thats all you do, isn't it a good thing to add more substance to the open world content so you're not one shotting everything then? Or do you refuse to do the other things since you don't like a challenge?
03/29/2017 12:51 PMPosted by Havia
Oh God, I knew scaling was a bad idea as soon as they announced they were going to do it. I have never liked level scaling in RPGs.


This. I dislike level scaling so much that I've actually gotten into the habit of searching game forums for "scaling" prior to purchasing any RPG on Steam. It's an auto-nope. Gear scaling is a whole new level of horrible.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum