PSA: Creatures now scale with item level

General Discussion
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Man I haven't seen such an overwhelmingly negative response in a long time.

I think this speaks more to how poorly itemization and scaling have been all xpac. Instead of making gear scale linearly or at least smoothly, we have a massive power difference between an 880 and a 900. Between the secondary stat nonsense (which btw was barely fixed and I still have 2 stats worth more than intellect) and legendaries, gear and power have been terrible this xpac.

I despite titanforging and this scaling nonsense as a result. If we had the mythic equivalent geared people only be the ones actually doing mythic content, it wouldnt matter how many people were steamrolling the content. Now you have LFR primed to drop gear the same Ilvl as Heroic from the previous tier, everyone is going to be at way too high of a power level.

I dont know what the solution is, but I know 100% of this was warned against time and time again beginning in alpha. I have never been less motivated to log in the game as I am right now. I spent all day excited for the patch and when I logged in I got weaker against trash mobs and 2 hours of content. No I wait and read pissed off forum posts instead of what could have been Timeless Isle 2.0.

ARGH
03/29/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Kyarine
Because you become stronger to do harder raid and dungeon content. You get that gear so you can take down Gul'dan or Kil'Jaeden, not because your goal is to kill bears faster. They're just keeping the open world content relevant.


They aren't keeping *anything* relevant. Mobs are harder, loot is not better. What's so hard to understand here? That lvl 110 bear used to guard an ilevel 840 treasure and was easy to kill. Now? He's still guarding the POS 840...and he's now more difficult to kill.

No point in it, is there? Meaning...it is irrelevant.

If anything, there should be a toggle (like changing dungeon difficulties) on your character. If it is on, !@#$ scales...but so do the rewards...and they need to scale much higher than they are now.
On top of nerfing character progression and the purpose of open-world content and raids as a source of progression, they also nerf rep gains and other currency tokens (nethershards) so much, and nerf the schedule of advertised patch content so much, that Patch 7.2 shall be known as the patch that defeated the purpose of the expansion.

Not to mention that a significant amount of content (raids) is unplayable due to game-breaking bugs.
I think i understand this now.....

All the complaining about getting rings with the wrong stats from the Mythic + chest week after week this is to fix that problem!

"We heard that one person actually got a ring upgrade they could use from the weekly Mythic+ chest, so we changed the game to now make them weaker for actually wearing it!! You can thank us later"
This system is absolute garbage. If you're gonna go with the level scaling route then might as well delete items and levels from the game. This whole thing is pointless. One of the most fun I have is being able to blitz through monsters that were once challenging.
Man I haven't seen such an overwhelmingly negative response in a long time.

I think this speaks more to how poorly itemization and scaling have been all xpac. Instead of making gear scale linearly or at least smoothly, we have a massive power difference between an 880 and a 900. Between the secondary stat nonsense (which btw was barely fixed and I still have 2 stats worth more than intellect) and legendaries, gear and power have been terrible this xpac.

I despite titanforging and this scaling nonsense as a result. If we had the mythic equivalent geared people only be the ones actually doing mythic content, it wouldnt matter how many people were steamrolling the content. Now you have LFR primed to drop gear the same Ilvl as Heroic from the previous tier, everyone is going to be at way too high of a power level.

I dont know what the solution is, but I know 100% of this was warned against time and time again beginning in alpha. I have never been less motivated to log in the game as I am right now. I spent all day excited for the patch and when I logged in I got weaker against trash mobs and 2 hours of content. No I wait and read pissed off forum posts instead of what could have been Timeless Isle 2.0.

ARGH


None is needed. Raid-geared players being able to easily dispatch overworld mobs has never been a 'problem' in 13 years of WoW, and isn't now.
Absolutely ridiculous , thanks Blizz , you have made mine and every other players hard work meaningless outside of raiding . Because that seems like how you totally maintain your bounce back from an almost failing game . Enjoy your yet again dwindling subscriptions............
Just throwing in my opinion. As others have said, this change is not fun and completely negates any feeling of growth in overall character strength. Please remove this change until such a time when a better system can be implemented. Even then, run that idea by the playerbase and test it to gauge its effectiveness and ability to meet your goal of "extended content relevance."

Communication is key.

Surprise or deception may not have been your intent but, no matter what you say now, the lack of communication and a reversal of prior decisions certainly makes it seem that way.
03/28/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Watcher
03/28/2017 11:10 PMPosted by Weetzie
So now we have to consult ilvl spreadsheets to figure out which pieces of gear we need to unequip to make our daily chores as painless as possible.

Fun.

To be clear, it's unacceptable to us for the "right" thing in any form to ever be equipping weaker gear, unequipping items, or doing things that in any way lower your "absolute" power. There are a couple of loopholes where that is true currently, and they'll be high-priority fixes for us in the next day or two.

Also to be clear, scrapping the entire system is certainly still an option. My post was not meant to be a "too bad, get used to it" proclamation.

But I did want to lay out what we consider to be the very real problem we're trying to solve here. I also understand that to many folks it doesn't appear to be a real problem at all, and it seems like we're just trying to throw up pointless obstacles.

Power always feels good. It feels better to kill something in 5 seconds than in 10, especially when you remember when it took 10. Even better when you can do it in 2. Better still when you can kill 4 or 5 things in that time. But is there a point where that goes too far? We think so, and we're just looking to ease up off the gas pedal a little bit. We don't want to halt the power curve, and certainly never to go in reverse, but rather to take a bit longer on our road to an endgame world where everyone effectively walks around death-touching mobs for quest credit.


We work HARD to kill our raid bosses. Most raiders do 6+ hours a week minimum. We put in the effort to make it to the point of "too far."
This new system essentially says "We know you worked SUPER hard. But !@#$ you."
I normally don't like to complain, but this really bothers me.
You advertise this patch by telling us that we'll get to see the full power of our artifacts and the class halls. I was excited to get in there and start slaying demons.

But it really kills that feeling when I feel weaker than i have in a long while.
I am Level 41. I am scared that this monstrosity will come to levels 1-90 as well! It is like they heard everybody's complaints that lower-level content was trivialized and rather than beef up mechanics and damage (Make Dungeons Great Again!), they created reverse-leveling endgame gear to PUNISH progression.

Somebody, please hold me!
I may as well add my two cents although I'm sure I'm not going to saying anything that hasn't been said several times before...

I like getting more powerful, I like going back to "old" content and cutting through them like a hot knife through butter. It's incredibly satisfying (I don't want to say fun or else it'll give Blizzard a reason to keep scaling in.)

I especially like it because the world quest system is boring and repetitive. Anything that speeds up the same content that I've endured since launch is a plus. I think the entire WQ system was a poorly disguised attempt at making it seem like there was more content than there is but that's a discussion for another day.

The relatively high power that we have now is because of another silly system you introduced, titanforging gear to absurd levels, to keep us on a treadmill so we keep playing.

Didn't you think that maybe having people titanforge to nearly 100 item levels above heroic dungeon gear ( and nearly 90 above Mythic) before we've even hit the second tier might be a problem in the waiting?

Apparently not, because to cover up your own failures you're punishing the players.

I'd wager that no heads will roll over the clusterfudge that Titanforging has created, nor the way you handled the "solution."

Accept you were wrong and revert it, and stop trying to slip things by people. I know you won't but being open and honest with customers really does work.
Alright. How do I word this as clearly as possible and still give an original response?

REVERT THIS OR PEOPLE WILL UNSUB EN MASSE

If you will not hold true to your words, you damage your credibility as a company. If you damage your credibility as a company, people stop buyin your products. People stop buying your products you go bankrupt. I love Warcraft. Fix this.
03/29/2017 01:23 PMPosted by Brinator
03/28/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Watcher
...
To be clear, it's unacceptable to us for the "right" thing in any form to ever be equipping weaker gear, unequipping items, or doing things that in any way lower your "absolute" power. There are a couple of loopholes where that is true currently, and they'll be high-priority fixes for us in the next day or two.

Also to be clear, scrapping the entire system is certainly still an option. My post was not meant to be a "too bad, get used to it" proclamation.

But I did want to lay out what we consider to be the very real problem we're trying to solve here. I also understand that to many folks it doesn't appear to be a real problem at all, and it seems like we're just trying to throw up pointless obstacles.

Power always feels good. It feels better to kill something in 5 seconds than in 10, especially when you remember when it took 10. Even better when you can do it in 2. Better still when you can kill 4 or 5 things in that time. But is there a point where that goes too far? We think so, and we're just looking to ease up off the gas pedal a little bit. We don't want to halt the power curve, and certainly never to go in reverse, but rather to take a bit longer on our road to an endgame world where everyone effectively walks around death-touching mobs for quest credit.


We work HARD to kill our raid bosses. Most raiders do 6+ hours a week minimum. We put in the effort to make it to the point of "too far."
This new system essentially says "We know you worked SUPER hard. But !@#$ you."


The problem it isnt just raiders. Players running LFR and dungeons and WQ are able to get to the upper 800s easily now. If it was just the raiding population it would be fine.
The WQ are giving 865 gear while the mobs can be 900+ ilvl ( if you are geared )
Why would anyone bother with this game anymore?Extreme pruning , no class balance , no meaningful rewards, no honest and constructive devs communication...
World of warcraft just updated ! Maybe there is hope that they removed the worst idea ever !
Kinda feel betrayed given how the announcement earlier last year specifically guaranteed that power progression would not happen. And I agree: taking off a ring and mobs dropping hp isn't a bug, it's working as intended with this asinine change.
03/29/2017 01:18 PMPosted by Caddo
It sounds like the sides are pretty clearly defined. Obviously this thread is just a reflection of the users that are willing to brave the wilds that are the General Discussion Forum. Not sure what the rest of the playerbase feels.

I can only say that for me, this is a game-breaker. I've cancelled my sub until I hear that this has been reverted. I have plenty of games in my STEAM library that could use my attention. /shrug.

It's been a good run till now.


What sides? It looks like a small group of players are in favor of 7.2/ilvl scaling and the rest (overwhelming majority) are against. Maybe we need a new post with just your vote of yes for the ilevel scaling OR no against it. I'll bet a post like that only gets a handful of yes' from fanboys.
03/28/2017 05:30 PMPosted by Fixxill
Does that really seem like a good idea? People have been asking to fix 1-90 questing, not current content. Jeez. This would have been perfect for that.


Actually i only do old content now. If they do level and ilevel scaling on old content i'll unsub and never look back.
Would love to share my thoughts...

Can't be bothered to watch them drown in the dead sea that is our forums...

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