PSA: Creatures now scale with item level

General Discussion
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Incoming buried post:

May I ask what is so bad about having more challenging mobs? I didn't really notice a difference when I was doing WQ's last night. Mobs may have taken a 2nd longer to kill than normal but it wasn't game-breaking. Why is everyone so upset? Is it more to do with the lack of communication or the fact that mobs are a bit harder than normal.

I feel like folks are severely overreacting here, even though Watcher said it was being looked into. The only problem I have with this change was the fact that it was not mentioned to us beforehand, which stems back from the fact that Blizzard is still choosing not to communicate effectively.
03/28/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Watcher
03/28/2017 11:10 PMPosted by Weetzie
So now we have to consult ilvl spreadsheets to figure out which pieces of gear we need to unequip to make our daily chores as painless as possible.

Fun.

To be clear, it's unacceptable to us for the "right" thing in any form to ever be equipping weaker gear, unequipping items, or doing things that in any way lower your "absolute" power. There are a couple of loopholes where that is true currently, and they'll be high-priority fixes for us in the next day or two.

Also to be clear, scrapping the entire system is certainly still an option. My post was not meant to be a "too bad, get used to it" proclamation.

But I did want to lay out what we consider to be the very real problem we're trying to solve here. I also understand that to many folks it doesn't appear to be a real problem at all, and it seems like we're just trying to throw up pointless obstacles.

Power always feels good. It feels better to kill something in 5 seconds than in 10, especially when you remember when it took 10. Even better when you can do it in 2. Better still when you can kill 4 or 5 things in that time. But is there a point where that goes too far? We think so, and we're just looking to ease up off the gas pedal a little bit. We don't want to halt the power curve, and certainly never to go in reverse, but rather to take a bit longer on our road to an endgame world where everyone effectively walks around death-touching mobs for quest credit.


I'm completely fine with oblitering 30 mobs in 2 seconds with my mythic raid gear. Thanks for asking.

Please step down from your position, and bring Matt Goss with you.
03/29/2017 01:22 PMPosted by Osirus
Man I haven't seen such an overwhelmingly negative response in a long time.

I think this speaks more to how poorly itemization and scaling have been all xpac. Instead of making gear scale linearly or at least smoothly, we have a massive power difference between an 880 and a 900. Between the secondary stat nonsense (which btw was barely fixed and I still have 2 stats worth more than intellect) and legendaries, gear and power have been terrible this xpac.

I despite titanforging and this scaling nonsense as a result. If we had the mythic equivalent geared people only be the ones actually doing mythic content, it wouldnt matter how many people were steamrolling the content. Now you have LFR primed to drop gear the same Ilvl as Heroic from the previous tier, everyone is going to be at way too high of a power level.

I dont know what the solution is, but I know 100% of this was warned against time and time again beginning in alpha. I have never been less motivated to log in the game as I am right now. I spent all day excited for the patch and when I logged in I got weaker against trash mobs and 2 hours of content. No I wait and read pissed off forum posts instead of what could have been Timeless Isle 2.0.

ARGH


None is needed. Raid-geared players being able to easily dispatch overworld mobs has never been a 'problem' in 13 years of WoW, and isn't now.


We also never had CRZ and shared tagging in current content either, it will be a huge problem by the end of the expansion.
03/29/2017 01:32 PMPosted by Osirus
If you asked players what the 200 biggest problems with WoW were I can about guarantee you that "World Quest mobs are too easy to kill now that I'm raid geared" wouldn't have made the list. Yet this was a "very real problem" that the devs felt they need to address (in secret, no less).


This a million times.
03/29/2017 01:27 PMPosted by Tempestwinds
03/28/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Watcher

But I did want to lay out what we consider to be the very real problem we're trying to solve here. I also understand that to many folks it doesn't appear to be a real problem at all, and it seems like we're just trying to throw up pointless obstacles.


See THAT right there is an issue itself. You devs are literally wasting time better spent elsewhere crafting solutions to problems that exist only in YOUR minds. All the while actual issues, ones that have been brought to your attention repeatedly, go ignored, brushed under the table or made worse by continued hubris and incompetence.

No one was saying "gosh I think I'm too powerful for world questing, you should make those repetative, boring grinds harder for me." Players are too busy scratching their heads and screaming at their screens over legendaries, the ap fiasco, class balance and other issues to give a sh-it about whether or not grinding takes 5 seconds a mob or 7. The very idea that we players want that is not only laughable but contemptible.

Watcher, please take a moment to think about any future changes you wish to make, then do the exact opposite of whatever it was you were planning.
03/29/2017 01:32 PMPosted by Calculine
Maybe they shouldn't post condescending, banal tripe, then. :)


You realize they couldn't test this on the PTR because the PTR is for further developing future content, and everyone would be focused on that, right?

The scaling was mean to be a blind test because the current game still has older, current content in the context of developing future content.

The ad-hominem and threats are completely detrimental and only tell the Devs to avoid their own Forums and instead focus on their Twitter, Reddit, and PTR handles.
Reposting (with a small edit) my comment from the Pt. 2 thread that was up before this was uncapped:

This new scaling is punitive for alts. Let me explain why.

For a while, I played exclusively on my mage main, because there was only so much time I could spend in one session. Eventually, my mage's gear got to the point where I could get world quests done in a reasonable amount of time, which gave me the time to start leveling up and gearing up my favorite alt, the resto druid.

If the scaling results in world quests taking about the same amount of time as before my mage got geared from raids, that means less time for my alt. And certainly no time for any of the other alts that I was eventually planning on leveling up.

For me, getting stuff done faster on the mage was not a detriment to the gaming experience. Quite the contrary. It means I have the time to experience the game in completely different ways on alts that play very differently than my mage. It means my gaming experience will have greater variety.

I suggest you reconsider this change.
03/29/2017 01:36 PMPosted by Harrowing
Those freakin' mobs didn't go bust their demonic tails for frustratingly slow incremental ilvl increases. But I did. Every world quest with gear. PvP caches. Emissaries. It mattered to me because I wanted to make world quests less tedious in the long run.


Yep yep yep!
03/29/2017 01:15 PMPosted by Kyarine
03/29/2017 01:13 PMPosted by Jalanili
...

No, I literally get stronger to kill bears faster.

That's pretty much my endgame.

Mowing down a group of bears with a Barrage (that now inexplicably has an arrow thwipp-thwipp sound and graphic), get the livers or eyes or pelts that I'm there for, and finish the quest to get me closer to getting the toy or mount or transmog that I might get from the caches. Or finish the questline and see the plot.

I've been in like three Mythic 0s. I haven't put one pinky toe in a normal raid. This is what I do, and what I have been doing, for much longer than the developers of the current expansion have been employed by Blizzard.

I know what I'm about.


If thats all you do, isn't it a good thing to add more substance to the open world content so you're not one shotting everything then? Or do you refuse to do the other things since you don't like a challenge?


Adding time =/= adding substance.
03/29/2017 01:31 PMPosted by Stabnslash
03/29/2017 01:29 PMPosted by Huatar
I don't mind that level-scaling is a thing. I thought it was a much-needed feature to improve viability of earlier zones.

What I don't appreciate is that mobs are scaling with our item levels. What the hell is the point of us getting better gear if we can't smite our enemies faster with them?

With a different scaling curve, you will still be able to kill them faster without one shotting them after just 1 raid tier.


While that may be the intent in theory, but upon actual launch, the scaling ended up becoming way overtuned.

Now, with significant scaling, mythic raiders will be at a much bigger disadvantage than lesser-geared or progressed raiders, as it does not matter which tier your gear is from.
03/29/2017 01:38 PMPosted by Sepset
03/29/2017 01:32 PMPosted by Calculine
Maybe they shouldn't post condescending, banal tripe, then. :)


You realize they couldn't test this on the PTR because the PTR is for further developing future content, and everyone would be focused on that, right?


This has to be the dumbest thing I have read today. I feel stupider just reading it, and may God have mercy on your soul.
So, I guess the quest "Greater Power for Greater Threats" is an oxymoron now.
03/29/2017 01:36 PMPosted by Aisylnn
Incoming buried post:

May I ask what is so bad about having more challenging mobs?
Because I paid my dues when I was freshly 110 and around 790 ilevel and every damn mob on the Isles kicked my !@#$ in?

I'm 890 now. I should be able to kick their %^-* in, but things that I could do effortlessly, like round up eight Libertines in the elite part of Suramar and cleave them to hell, is no longer possible (anything in excess of four kills my Felguard faster than Soul Leech/Health Funnel can keep him going). That's ridiculous. 7.2 was supposed to be about bringing people up to a new, higher baseline of power and having us tackle stronger threats on the Broken Shore. I totally expected Broken Shore content to be rougher than 7.0 content (I was mentally expecting elite Suramar City/Shield's Rest/etc. level mobs, fwiw), but there's no reason why 7.0 content should also get turbo-charged.
Incoming buried post:

May I ask what is so bad about having more challenging mobs? I didn't really notice a difference when I was doing WQ's last night. Mobs may have taken a 2nd longer to kill than normal but it wasn't game-breaking. Why is everyone so upset? Is it more to do with the lack of communication or the fact that mobs are a bit harder than normal.

[/quote]

Because I don't do world quests for a challenge. I do them because they're a chore. Making them even more of a chore is not going to heighten my enjoyment of the game.
03/29/2017 01:36 PMPosted by Aisylnn
Incoming buried post:

May I ask what is so bad about having more challenging mobs? I didn't really notice a difference when I was doing WQ's last night. Mobs may have taken a 2nd longer to kill than normal but it wasn't game-breaking. Why is everyone so upset? Is it more to do with the lack of communication or the fact that mobs are a bit harder than normal.

I feel like folks are severely overreacting here, even though Watcher said it was being looked into. The only problem I have with this change was the fact that it was not mentioned to us beforehand, which stems back from the fact that Blizzard is still choosing not to communicate effectively.


From a design standpoint, the current bad scaling mean getting stronger is bad because it gets harder. The scaling with correct number should just mean your don't outstrip everything as fast as we did since Legion launched.
If it isn't broken Blizzard, then why fix it? Who actually complained about "hey, I did this world quest TOO FAST" and think they need to drag out doing the same repetitive garbage even longer on a day to day basis. All while undermining the feeling of power and reward of getting higher level gear in one step?
Watcher making another clueless decision.

First there was the Max Camera distance being nerfed FOR NO REASON.

Now, they scale mobs in the outside world to our ilvl? F'in amazing ...

Watcher just quit, you single handly are ruining World of Warcraft.

I enjoy oblteriating pointless outdoor mobs once I've geared, making it feel like i'm always a fresh new 110 is stupid.

There is my feeback, give me my old max camera and stop scaling mobs to my gear.

Oh and quit, thanks.
03/29/2017 01:40 PMPosted by Eminemanon
03/29/2017 01:38 PMPosted by Sepset
...

You realize they couldn't test this on the PTR because the PTR is for further developing future content, and everyone would be focused on that, right?


This has to be the dumbest thing I have read today. I feel stupider just reading it, and may God have mercy on your soul.


What is wrong with what I posted? PTR is essentially testing future content, as in relevant content, where ilvl scaling wouldn't have an impact.
Well meaning developer tries to fix issue that Does Not Exist.
If you had put this on the PTR to get player feedback FIRST before springing this on the live servers without saying a word, people wouldn't be as angry. Your sneakiness and nonchalant attitude tells me that you don't care what your players think about your product.
At least for now revert these changes until you can figure out a better way to implement this item scaling nonsense you want to shove down our throats.
By the way, what the heck did my game just update? What else did you devs sneak in?

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