PSA: Creatures now scale with item level

General Discussion
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03/29/2017 02:58 PMPosted by Invictae
03/29/2017 02:53 PMPosted by Esmerelder
...

People should have complained about it while it was on the PTR then.


They did: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753319202


Nice find!
03/29/2017 03:08 PMPosted by Sepset
03/29/2017 03:05 PMPosted by Dreadfury
BY THE WAY...

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753319202?page=2

People weren't 100% sure about this. But this thread was a mid-February thread talking about the very same thing that brought us all to this thread. It drowned, but it still absolutely existed and it did get quite a few upvotes during its time.


One thread that didn't even reach two pages.

03/29/2017 03:05 PMPosted by Supercell
...

The trolling ignorance is strong with this poster.


Mob mentality isn't know for objective reasoning. But please, continue with demanding people to be fired, such and such people are idiots, and espouse that its Activi$ion$$$ because, why not?


I don't think you are here to actively engage in discussion. The entire time you are here, you have been setting up strawmen to wack. Few people are talking about firing the devs. What people ARE talking about is the game they love having an undocumented new mechanic suddenly rolled out upon them. A mechanic that solves an issue that I have yet to hear ANYONE seriously defend. How many 'low geared people' are suffering from 910 raids camping their quest mobs?

A week ago I got my mage to 110 and did some WQs to get resources for the follower missions. I actually asked to join some high level people clearing the bird camps and they let me tag along as they cleared it out. Even if they said no, it wasn't a big deal to find quest mobs to kill.

Seriously, where and when did anyone complain that their alt or leveling toon was not able to tag quest mobs?
03/29/2017 03:11 PMPosted by Hardwired
03/29/2017 02:07 PMPosted by Ornyx
Thanks for the feedback on this issue. It’s clear that we need to make some changes here, so here are our current plans:

  • We’re removing the increase to damage dealt by creatures in the world. Our overall goal with this change is to keep the amount of time it takes to kill a creature from getting ridiculously short, and increasing the damage they deal is unnecessary for that goal. Instead, this was making you feel like they were becoming more dangerous, which was not our intent.
  • We’re significantly reducing the rate at which creature health scales with your item level. Again, all we’re trying to do here is prevent cases where monsters die too quickly for players to react to their presence, particularly around World Quests. Our initial tuning was far more aggressive than it needed to be, which could make it feel like your upgrades weren't actually helping. This change will make it very clear that you are still becoming noticeably stronger than your enemies as your gear improves.
  • Those two changes are already live, and you should be seeing them in-game now.
  • Later today, we’ll be correcting a separate issue that’s causing unequipping an item to drastically alter the power of enemies you’re facing. The above changes make it so that’s never the right thing to do anyway, but this is still a strange/buggy interaction that needs to be fixed.

It should also be noted that this change was on the Patch 7.2 PTR (and has been since January). We didn’t communicate anything about it initially because we wanted to get testers’ raw and honest feedback about it when they encountered it themselves, rather than attempting to pre-empt or otherwise influence their opinions ahead of time. When that feedback never came, we assumed that meant it was an acceptable change – i.e., those who hadn’t noticed it weren’t bothered by it, and those who had noticed it thought it was fine. Clearly that was a false assumption, and we should have drawn attention to it later in the PTR cycle, so that we could have caught these issues before Patch 7.2 went live.


This is good communication thank you. While I still disagree with the implementation at all, these are acceptable changes to me if the numbers are correct. I still have lost a lot of trust in the devs because of this and it isn't easily regained.

Good start though.


Except it really isn't, at all. How is blaming the player base that actually took time to test their product "good communication"? Am I missing something here?
Blizzards rule of thumb: If it isn't broke, break it.

Also, they are looking at the fix the wrong way. If they would quit feeding us these drastic ilvl increases every 6 months (power wise not just the visible number), the monsters wouldn't become irreverent so quickly. Why they give a damn about run of the mill monsters in the world who knows...... there is a reason they're called trash.

In a character fantasy point of view, I fought and killed Deathwing, destroyer of worlds, thwarted Nefarion and the black dragonflight a few times. Killed the lich king and his army of scourge, defeated several titans and old gods, but the bears and wolves in the new zones.... they're the real threat.
03/29/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Space
03/29/2017 02:07 PMPosted by Ornyx
We didn’t communicate anything about it


For quite some time now, there's been a serious issue with trust. The playerbase has expressed distrust of the developers. The developers acknowledged that trust issue and pledged to put things right again.

Yet we clearly learn from this fiasco that nothing has changed. You blatantly and intentionally mislead players, hiding the truth from them. And now, after the cat's out of the bag, you come up with some lame excuse about "raw feedback". Seriously? Give me a break. Even Sean Spicer couldn't spin that one. Why on earth should we believe you now? You have zero credibility with a large portion of your customer base. You really ought to think about that.
Just bumping his post so everyone see. I could not have explained it better !
03/29/2017 03:09 PMPosted by Chernobyll
Please bring Tigole back. We need wow back on track.

And I might regret what I am about to say.
Wait for it.
WAIT
FOR
IT
...
I miss GC!


I really couldn't stand ghostcrawler...he was an arrogant !@#...but at least he was straightforward and honest about everything he did. I have to respect him for that alone and those are qualities the current team is sorely lacking in.
03/29/2017 03:01 PMPosted by Calculine
Also, yeah, as people are reporting, at least the "pulling off gear" element is not even remotely fixed. Just went out to the active Warden's Tower in Highmountain and definitely watched a Gilnean Lightbringer drop from 4.2 million at i889 to 3.3 million at i834 (removing my bracers).

~neat~


*Wolf whistle from the back row*

TAKE IT OFF!
TAKE IT OFF!
03/29/2017 02:07 PMPosted by Ornyx
Thanks for the feedback on this issue. It’s clear that we need to make some changes here, so here are our current plans:

  • We’re removing the increase to damage dealt by creatures in the world. Our overall goal with this change is to keep the amount of time it takes to kill a creature from getting ridiculously short, and increasing the damage they deal is unnecessary for that goal. Instead, this was making you feel like they were becoming more dangerous, which was not our intent.
  • We’re significantly reducing the rate at which creature health scales with your item level. Again, all we’re trying to do here is prevent cases where monsters die too quickly for players to react to their presence, particularly around World Quests. Our initial tuning was far more aggressive than it needed to be, which could make it feel like your upgrades weren't actually helping. This change will make it very clear that you are still becoming noticeably stronger than your enemies as your gear improves.
  • Those two changes are already live, and you should be seeing them in-game now.
  • Later today, we’ll be correcting a separate issue that’s causing unequipping an item to drastically alter the power of enemies you’re facing. The above changes make it so that’s never the right thing to do anyway, but this is still a strange/buggy interaction that needs to be fixed.

It should also be noted that this change was on the Patch 7.2 PTR (and has been since January). We didn’t communicate anything about it initially because we wanted to get testers’ raw and honest feedback about it when they encountered it themselves, rather than attempting to pre-empt or otherwise influence their opinions ahead of time. When that feedback never came, we assumed that meant it was an acceptable change – i.e., those who hadn’t noticed it weren’t bothered by it, and those who had noticed it thought it was fine. Clearly that was a false assumption, and we should have drawn attention to it later in the PTR cycle, so that we could have caught these issues before Patch 7.2 went live.


As I said before, this doesnt really change anything. The fact of the matter is there is no reason for me to keep my skorp trinket (stamina/defensive only) equipped when it gives enemies a good 800k more health, which it does even after this "Fix". And any change to make it so unequipping it wont effect enemy scaling will feel even worse.

This change needs to be reverted, plain and simple, and putting a bandaid on a gushing wound changes nothing at all.
03/29/2017 03:14 PMPosted by Jeschalen
This really sucks. I don't raid, so all I do for the most part is world content. I was really looking forward to gearing up my latest 110. Now I'm sitting here wondering if it's even worth it.

We're not all raiders, Blizzard. We deserve to feel powerful with the gear upgrades we do possess, no matter what content we participate in, no matter which spec we choose to play.


Exactly this. And if I just get done downing Heroic Gul'dan, I sure as hell better blast a stupid turtle off the face of the earth.
Actually I wouldn't mind at all the scaling, damage and health if I got more loot, more gold, more stuff from the mobs!! What would make the challenge fair.
Why didn't you scale the rewards too? After all we gear up to get better rewards...

Yesterday I was so ashamed because I had to finish my last 4 quests in Suramar to get lore master of Legion. But I died 4 times... since some mobs in Suramar were incredibly stronger. Up to 20m health and lots of damage, and they come in packs!

So basically I wasted more repair gold than their loots could give to me. This is unfair! And disgusting.

PS: I really want to know how about my healer!!!!?????!?!?!?! How I will kill the 20m mobs in Suramar with my healer?!?!!? YOU DID !@#$ BLIZZARD! We need healer/tank separated scaling then.
they need to remove the scaling all together. this is incredibly broken.
If a small amount of health scaling that isn't even proportionate to one's ilvl is the straw that kills WoW, I'll eat my keyboard. But criticism where it's due, the change was clearly not thought out or implemented very well, and leaving it out of the patch notes is a surefire way to breed distrust. And distrust in the devs is something that DOES kill MMOs.
03/29/2017 02:07 PMPosted by Ornyx
When that feedback never came, we assumed that meant it was an acceptable change – i.e., those who hadn’t noticed it weren’t bothered by it, and those who had noticed it thought it was fine. Clearly that was a false assumption, and we should have drawn attention to it later in the PTR cycle, so that we could have caught these issues before Patch 7.2 went live.

02/19/2017 12:54 PMPosted by Evê
That is ridiculous and so disheartening to hear it is confirmed. I had hoped among hopes that this wasn't happening.

What is the point of even raising ilvl then? If world mobs are just getting raised too I will not be more powerful. Just save us all the hassle and just leave things the way they are.

This will show all those people when us anti scaling people complained about scaling people kept saying to "not worry because eventually our gear will be so much better than the mobs etc we won't even notice the scaling". I would love to hear what they have to say now?

As someone who prefers to pet battle and doing professions this is completely disheartening. The one thing I had to look forward to was the better gear. I am already sick and tired of aggroing everything when pet battling, doing dig sites, collecting herbs etc. I am so done with world scaling and I never ever wanted it in the first place-if I did I would have stuck with GW2. I have got to say I am getting more disillusioned by the day the way this game is heading. And by these current devs who seem to not listen to a word anyone is saying.

Please tell me people are giving feedback to blizz over this. Honestly at this point not that it even matters, when blizz have a vision they don't care what anyone says. No matter how unpopular their vision might be :(


Check date on non-blue quote... from a ptr thread. Brace for impact.
Looks like that backfired... HUGE.. if I'm gonna continue to pay/play this needs to be reverted and whomever is in charge needs to be removed from the Dev team as they HAVE NO CLUE how to keep us paying.
Clearly that was a false assumption, and we should have drawn attention to it later in the PTR cycle, so that we could have caught these issues before Patch 7.2 went live.


Yes you should have.

How many times have we discussed better communication?

Ornyx: I have deep respect for you, and I ask that you accept this as an honest assessment on how this was handled.

This incident is a classic example of Blizzard's failure to adequately communicate a fundamental shift in the basic premises of the game. ...and this issue lies at the core of the entire gearing and levelling process.

As such, it is, and was, a matter that should have been upfront and widely known. it was not in the patch notes and that alone SHOULD NEVER have happened...not on a matter this sensitive and this crucial to gameplay.

it cant happen again, Ornyx: not if you and Blizzard wish to keep the trust and loyalty of your customers.
03/29/2017 03:15 PMPosted by Anareiel
03/29/2017 03:01 PMPosted by Calculine
Also, yeah, as people are reporting, at least the "pulling off gear" element is not even remotely fixed. Just went out to the active Warden's Tower in Highmountain and definitely watched a Gilnean Lightbringer drop from 4.2 million at i889 to 3.3 million at i834 (removing my bracers).

~neat~


*Wolf whistle from the back row*

TAKE IT OFF!
TAKE IT OFF!
Should... should I have Thal'kiel start pole dancing? :x
03/29/2017 03:10 PMPosted by Shadowkiss
Let's call this what it is: a combo of a lazy dev team ...


WRONG! The dev team is not at all at fault. Look higher. These little devs do what their bosses tell them to do. Please stop blaming the scapegoats and blame the decision makers.

We need a new team of visionaries at the top, these old guys are done, they have proven it with this patch. They are just trying to get by, not being innovative anymore.


It's hard to be innovative when new MMo's are few and far between to steal ideas from.
03/29/2017 03:11 PMPosted by Silverbells
03/29/2017 03:07 PMPosted by Tyrandelyn
Best thing to do is go to your sub and unsubscribe. That will hit them right where they feel.


That's what I did already, devs feel free to check it out.

I'm not even doing it to send a message since I'm realistic and I know my one sub isn't gonna do much. I'm doing it because I hate this change with a passion and I want nothing to do with a game that pulls this garbage as a design philosophy.


Same here i already unsubbed too. if the next blue post doesnt contain a "we are removing scaling all together" line then ill know they are truly lost.
Hey Blizz, if your plan was to rush out the patch to pump up sub numbers for the end of Q1.... I think it backfired.
It takes a big man to admit when they're wrong.

Clearly Blizzard is not full of big men.

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