PSA: Creatures now scale with item level

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At this rate, it wouldn't surprise me if some enterprising developers somewhere, who were working on a project to rival or trump what Blizzard has achieved, was looking at this right now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJiUfnIzbVM

And responding just like these two.

*For some added context, I also want to note that this is how I imagine companies like EA and Activision right now... it all certainly seems like it, these days. I hate it, because it just makes it that much more troublesome to find a game that has a genuinely passionate team behind it; or is otherwise free of the kind of trap some of the bigger AAA game development companies seem to have stumbled into recently. I'm sure we all want to have a good, fun game.
03/30/2017 06:22 PMPosted by Venovel
03/30/2017 05:20 PMPosted by Roxette
edit - okay I am not getting a response but all they did is increase mob health so your dps shouldn't be changing, whatsoever, in fact because you are feral your dps might go up because the fights last a bit longer. any dps change isn't related to this - has to be related to something else.


I'm not real interested in should and shouldn't right now; I ran through the Shore and Val'sharah last night equipping and un-equipping gear to see what sort of numbers Skada would give me. I discovered:

-Tuesday, a 7-set of class hall gear was giving me 210k damage. I used that in place of the 868 I formerly had on, which was giving me 167-ish k.
-Wednesday, the class hall gear was giving me 111k-120k, depending on Ashamane's Fury. I re-equipped my 868 gear.
-Wednesday night my 868 gear was giving me 196-ish k damage.
-I got an 870 vendor ring, and replaced an 845 ring. My ilvl rose to 871 and my dps dropped to 176k.
-I unequipped the 870 ring and played with gear until I was at +200k dps. That is my current feral ilvl, 856. It involved taking off my legendary legs and substituting 850 Shore drop legs.

Edit: equipping and un-equipping gear did not cause the mobs' health to change. I tested this several times while Prowling.

I don't know what else could possible account for this, if not ilvl. Speculations?


Secondary stats and set bonuses may be making a difference. Equipping and unequipping of gear has been fixed already.

I can't explain what would be causing that variation other than just plain lucky crits sometimes.

Mob health shouldn't be changing your dps to that extent - dps is merely damage per second - all mob health should change is total damage required to kill the mob.

That said sometimes when things die too fast those damage meters aren't accurate.
03/30/2017 06:33 PMPosted by Nui
03/30/2017 06:12 PMPosted by Roxette
People shouldn't have to realm hop to do basic WQ. I believe scaling change is necessary and in fact I welcome a very relaxed version of it in old content for world bosses like sha of anger and huolon.


Its less about realm hopping to nab your rares and more about ensuring that you can tag if that is your problem. Do you understand that?


If I have to realm hop just to be able to do basic WQ, I just will quit playing and any number of others will do the same. It is just that simple. I don't play to be frustrated and I stopped levelling up characters in Chicago PvE via questing years ago because just too frustrating.

There is really is no issue with this scaling for the majority of players in game - I haven't heard a single complaint in any of the guilds I am in - including the mythic raiding guild where almost everyone has over 900 ilvl.
03/30/2017 07:03 PMPosted by Aehl
It seems to me like they implemented a request players have been requesting for a long time..


I defy you to show me one post where this has ever been requested.

By doing this they have:

Removed all incentive to do higher raiding. The gear is now irrelevant and will scale accordingly..so any sense of player power is severely diminished.

Removed any real incentive for mythic guilds...as the gear, a major part of their process..is now a joke.

Removed any real incentive for guilds to push for higher progression, as any increase in player power from higher ilevel gear is now negated.

That "high ilevel mythic gear" is now on a par with basic WQ gear in terms of player power, so really, there is literally NO POINT in doing anything higher,. as the most significant rewards, the gear, has been savagely nerfed.

All to fix a problem that existed only in the devs minds.

It was never broken.

It didnt need fixing.

And I am sick to death of saying this.


I actually suggested this back in MoP on this forum - don't think they notice it but I wouldn't be surprised if a number of players haven't suggested this over the years since it is a very sensible solution to some issues in this game people complain about.

And it doesn't do any of those things.

And you won't quit because you claimed you were quitting twice already and you never did.
"To reiterate, power progression is an essential part of the WoW endgame. We absolutely want you to feel overpowered as you return to steamroll content that once was challenging. But there's a threshold beyond which the game's core mechanics start to break down."
Examples of this are as follows:
"...even for the Mythic-geared bringer of death and destruction, when everything dies nearly instantly, you spend more time looting corpses than you do making them. You spend an order of magnitude longer traveling to a quest location than you do killing the quest target. You stop using your core class abilities and instead focus on spamming instants to tap mobs as quickly as possible before they die."
Whether these are good or bad, shouldn't this be for the player to decide? If players keep playing this way, obviously it is not a problem for them, and neither is it hurting anyone else.
"When someone trying to wind up a 2.5sec cast can't get a nuke off against a quest target before another player charges in and one-shots it, that feels broken."
This I can understand -- myself having been at the mercy of high-end gogogoers many a time, and at first glance this presents as a viable justification for ilvl scaling. But there are other options:

- To those players getting screwed by the one-shotters: suck it up. Yes, I know from my own experience that this is annoying/frustrating, but have a little patience. Typically a wave of frenetic players passes through quickly, and then you can do what you have to do.

- To the gogogoers: just stop. Exercise some common courtesy and respect to those less powerful. If you see someone casting a spell, find another mob. In essence (and IMHO), you helped to create this situation the devs felt necessary to address with ilvl scaling.

- Devs, roll back the ilvl scaling to a lesser degree. Perhaps have it apply to only those players above a certain ilvl, or just to attacks above a certain damage level. It does not need to be global.

/soapbox analysis
This is a special change, suits the dev team and Ion, a special kind of stupid.
03/31/2017 04:37 AMPosted by Hexellu
"To reiterate, power progression is an essential part of the WoW endgame. We absolutely want you to feel overpowered as you return to steamroll content that once was challenging. But there's a threshold beyond which the game's core mechanics start to break down."
Examples of this are as follows:
"...even for the Mythic-geared bringer of death and destruction, when everything dies nearly instantly, you spend more time looting corpses than you do making them. You spend an order of magnitude longer traveling to a quest location than you do killing the quest target. You stop using your core class abilities and instead focus on spamming instants to tap mobs as quickly as possible before they die."
Whether these are good or bad, shouldn't this be for the player to decide? If players keep playing this way, obviously it is not a problem for them, and neither is it hurting anyone else.
"When someone trying to wind up a 2.5sec cast can't get a nuke off against a quest target before another player charges in and one-shots it, that feels broken."
This I can understand -- myself having been at the mercy of high-end gogogoers many a time, and at first glance this presents as a viable justification for ilvl scaling. But there are other options:

- To those players getting screwed by the one-shotters: suck it up. Yes, I know from my own experience that this is annoying/frustrating, but have a little patience. Typically a wave of frenetic players passes through quickly, and then you can do what you have to do.

- To the gogogoers: just stop. Exercise some common courtesy and respect to those less powerful. If you see someone casting a spell, find another mob. In essence (and IMHO), you helped to create this situation the devs felt necessary to address with ilvl scaling.

- Devs, roll back the ilvl scaling to a lesser degree. Perhaps have it apply to only those players above a certain ilvl, or just to attacks above a certain damage level. It does not need to be global.

/soapbox analysis


It's a non-issue when you step back from their exaggerations. Let's be real here: Any player with half a brain is going to use aoe or an instant spell to tag the mob when there are other players around so they get credit for the kill. They are not going to start off with a 2.5 sec cast if you know there is a chance you may lose credit for the mob.
03/31/2017 04:37 AMPosted by Hexellu

- To the gogogoers: just stop. Exercise some common courtesy and respect to those less powerful. If you see someone casting a spell, find another mob. In essence (and IMHO), you helped to create this situation the devs felt necessary to address with ilvl scaling.


This isn't going to happen - all the complaints in this thread prove that. Plus sometimes people can't even see a melee approaching a mob. I approach in stealth on both my feral and rogue and often I get right up to the mob and the other faction tags it which they probably would do even if they could see but w/e.
03/31/2017 04:53 AMPosted by Renlorne


It's a non-issue when you step back from their exaggerations. Let's be real here: Any player with half a brain is going to use aoe or an instant spell to tag the mob when there are other players around so they get credit for the kill. They are not going to start off with a 2.5 sec cast if you know there is a chance you may lose credit for the mob.


He used that as an example. People do get tags stole from them for whatever reason. And you don't always know people are around with realm hopping - no one can be around and all of a sudden a whole group are.
You guys are gonna continue talking about this until they remove it?

I thought the "No-Ilvl scailing" side is the winners of the argument?
03/31/2017 04:58 AMPosted by Roxette
03/31/2017 04:53 AMPosted by Renlorne


It's a non-issue when you step back from their exaggerations. Let's be real here: Any player with half a brain is going to use aoe or an instant spell to tag the mob when there are other players around so they get credit for the kill. They are not going to start off with a 2.5 sec cast if you know there is a chance you may lose credit for the mob.


He used that as an example. People do get tags stole from them for whatever reason. And you don't always know people are around with realm hopping - no one can be around and all of a sudden a whole group are.


So your argument is that they should implement this because there is a tiny chance that a group is going to realm hop and appear all of the sudden next to you, and steal credit for a mob? You have to admit that is a pretty weak justification.
And again Watcher and his band of idiots discovered a problem that didn't exist and "fixed" it. My sub runs out April 28th, want to know what I'm doing in that time if that change doesn't get reverted completely?

NOT QUESTING IN THE BROKEN ISLES.

Hell, I may not even bother logging in again, but if I do this character and all my alts are getting moved out of current content areas.
03/28/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Watcher
Also to be clear, scrapping the entire system is certainly still an option.

Hey guys, blood DK here. Currently taking me about 20 mins to kill a mob. I just hack and hack away while my HP bar stays at 100%. Not exactly what I would call an engaging experience. It's really like watching paint dry. Interestingly, I had someone do some painting for me recently, and he had to wait for the first coat to dry before applying the second coat. He essentially had to watch paint dry. He probably knows exactly how I feel about killing mobs in WoW. Who would have ever thought I'd have so much in common with a painter? Please consult with painters and hear about their experiences watching paint dry before implementing changes that will inflict this sort of emotional trauma on your game's tanks and healers. Everyone needs tanks and healers. Please don't make us overly miserable. Thank you.
03/31/2017 05:07 AMPosted by Lakuo
And again Watcher and his band of idiots discovered a problem that didn't exist and "fixed" it. My sub runs out April 28th, want to know what I'm doing in that time if that change doesn't get reverted completely?

NOT QUESTING IN THE BROKEN ISLES.

Hell, I may not even bother logging in again, but if I do this character and all my alts are getting moved out of current content areas.


You reached 110 back in early September and haven't even done 350 WQ on that account - you aren't a big world player anyway so how are things changing ?
03/31/2017 05:10 AMPosted by Tallywix
03/28/2017 11:30 PMPosted by Watcher
Also to be clear, scrapping the entire system is certainly still an option.

Hey guys, blood DK here. Currently taking me about 20 mins to kill a mob. I just hack and hack away while my HP bar stays at 100%. Not exactly what I would call an engaging experience. It's really like watching paint dry. Interestingly, I had someone do some painting for me recently, and he had to wait for the first coat to dry before applying the second coat. He essentially had to watch paint dry. He probably knows exactly how I feel about killing mobs in WoW. Who would have ever thought I'd have so much in common with a painter? Please consult with painters and hear about their experiences watching paint dry before implementing changes that will inflict this sort of emotional trauma on your game's tanks and healers. Everyone needs tanks and healers. Please don't make us overly miserable. Thank you.


Ok, that was funny. I almost spewed my morning coffee all over my desk. LOL 10/10
03/31/2017 05:14 AMPosted by Shadowsouled
03/31/2017 05:10 AMPosted by Tallywix
...
Hey guys, blood DK here. Currently taking me about 20 mins to kill a mob. I just hack and hack away while my HP bar stays at 100%. Not exactly what I would call an engaging experience. It's really like watching paint dry. Interestingly, I had someone do some painting for me recently, and he had to wait for the first coat to dry before applying the second coat. He essentially had to watch paint dry. He probably knows exactly how I feel about killing mobs in WoW. Who would have ever thought I'd have so much in common with a painter? Please consult with painters and hear about their experiences watching paint dry before implementing changes that will inflict this sort of emotional trauma on your game's tanks and healers. Everyone needs tanks and healers. Please don't make us overly miserable. Thank you.


Ok, that was funny. I almost spewed my morning coffee all over my desk. LOL 10/10


What is funnier is that they are killing a single mob at a time. Have you legitimately ever seen a tank take a single mob ?
I've read all 309 pages of this thread. (Not at once). Caught up with the five pages that were created last night.

First, nice to see Joynal in here. One of my favorite posters. Always more eloquent than me, and if I may, I can feel her frustration in her post. (Holy Priest)

Second, and this to me is a biggie, I am pleasantly surprised at the number of first-time, or non-posting folks in this thread. Multiple people with double or even single digit posts have commented.

Good on ya.

As an aside, last night, because I couldn't get FF 14 to DL, I DL'ed LotR instead. It's a nice diversion.
03/31/2017 05:20 AMPosted by Pharsalus
I've read all 309 pages of this thread. (Not at once). Caught up with the five pages that were created last night.

First, nice to see Joynal in here. One of my favorite posters. Always more eloquent than me, and if I may, I can feel her frustration in her post. (Holy Priest)

Second, and this to me is a biggie, I am pleasantly surprised at the number of first-time, or non-posting folks in this thread. Multiple people with double or even single digit posts have commented.

Good on ya.

As an aside, last night, because I couldn't get FF 14 to DL, I DL'ed LotR instead. It's a nice diversion.


How many of those are second accounts though. Some don't even have legion.

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