PSA: Creatures now scale with item level

General Discussion
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03/31/2017 02:34 PMPosted by Drako
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really ? how odd I thought they made the mobs in past expansion increasingly difficult as we levelled up and that bosses in raids are made increasingly difficult as you progress through the raid. are you sure what you are saying has anything to do with just slowing down player power a bit ?


Yes. But the key thing you are leaving out is that they did not continually grow in strength as you grew in strength.

Their power level was/is static. A raid boss is always going to do the same amount of damage. It's always going to have the same amount of health.

What a disingenuous thing to say.


Their statement really didn't make a lot of sense in the context of the discussion. I was just claiming nothing he said was lying as far as I could see.
03/31/2017 02:39 PMPosted by Synsomnia
Scaled content makes gear useless, who was the genius who came up with this idea?

Everyone should just wear greens now, no point in upgrading.


That's a great idea. Let me know how far you get.
03/31/2017 02:39 PMPosted by Synsomnia
Scaled content makes gear useless, who was the genius who came up with this idea?

Everyone should just wear greens now, no point in upgrading.


Lol no point in having greens at this point, no point in leveling even.
03/31/2017 02:33 PMPosted by Tiakatt
I'm a Holy priest, and I've noticed that while things are now better than when scaling was 1% per ilvl, it's still pretty sharp and my TTK is not great.

I checked mob health at under 850 (with an alt) and at 903 bag level (with this character).

Toiling Collectors on the Broken Shore go from 1.0m health to 1.3m, a 30% increase, down from the 50% it was before the update. So .6% per ilvl, down from 1% per ilvl.

I then checked my smite damage in my 896 questing gear (just my regular gear but with 2 dps trinkets) vs in an 849 average ilvl set, no pieces unequipped, all pieces requiring level 110, same 2 dps trinkets.

I did this because simply removing one item is really misleading. As ilvls increase they're worth more, so just removing one piece would make my scaling look flatter than it actually is - making the problem look worse, which would suit my point but, y'know, misleading. I wanted to see something closer to what someone at ~850 would actually be doing, so that is how I did it.

At 896, my smite tooltip reads 191074.
At 849, my smite tooltip reads 152050.

So that's a ~26% gain. Against scaling of 30%.

But that's just a tooltip. So, to be sure, I did multiple 1:00 dummy tests to account for procs (T'uure, double Holy Fire, Devilsaur's). Standard Holy ST rotation, and popping Apotheosis on pull, partly to make sure all CDs reset between tests. Same dps trinkets: 850 Devilsaur's Bite, and 855 Haste Stat Stick.

896, 1:00 on dummy:
258.8k dps
262.2k dps
244.2k dps
250.1k dps
232.3k dps
255.0k dps
225.9k dps
===========
246.9k average dps

849, 1:00 on dummy:
239.0k dps
216.1k dps
235.7k dps
218.8k dps
230.6k dps
217.1k dps
212.1k dps
===========
224.2k average dps

That's a bit over a 10% difference.

Obviously this isn't exactly up to super rigorous scientific standards - for instance I have a bit less Mastery in the lower ilvl set, skewing its damage upward a little, relatively, as Mastery contributes 0 damage for healers. And I probably had weaker trinkets back when that was my actual ilvl. I'm sorry, it's tough to perfectly replicate.

But I think it's a decent initial idicator that at .6% health gained per ilvl, and at currently attainable player ilvls, the ilvl scaling just about wipes out gear contribution to damage for healers. While weapon traits certainly help, our scaling is a lot flatter than dps' scaling, and appears to track too closely to the mob scaling.

It's worth Blizz looking into, if nothing else.


It's a good thing that Blizzard has players that will painstakingly QA their rash, ill-informed decisions for them.
03/31/2017 02:07 PMPosted by Junknthtrunk
You can talk and protest all you want. They simply do not care.


Unfortunately, this is true. They really do NOT give a rat's !@#.

It's time to take this to places that sell this game, particularly this edition. Not that Blizzard will change things, but maybe it saves some new or returning player the headaches and a few bucks he may spend somewhere else.
We already get screwed by taxes IRL and now we have to get screwed by the ilvl tax in wow.
03/31/2017 01:44 PMPosted by Clawsyou
03/31/2017 01:36 PMPosted by Lunarfel
I cannot stress enough how bad this entire ilvl scaling is.

My 865 warrior was doing this rare elite WQ. It started with a horde pally and me, brought the rare elite to 50% hp. Now here is the SHXT part, a group of 3 horde joined in, all of sudden, the boss hp stuck at 50%, it's not going down. Then another group of 5 horde joined in, another 2 ally ran in. You know what happened? Boss reset to 100% hp!!! We worked together to bring it down to 40%, another group arrived, boss' hp stuck at 40% for a while, then couple more players join in....

The WQ that used to take us 1m to complete, now took 5m!!!

The problem with ilvl scaling is giving boss MORE hp every time some one tag it. It has no soft cap! Not only that, it continues to pour dmg to us. it kills us without some kind of reliable healing.

The Dev team said this will help people tagging. But is this fair to the people arrive there first? So maybe we should just all sit here, wait for EVERYONE to arrive before we attack rite? So it's ok to waste our time, but not ok to let them wait for 10 second respawn?

Get your head out of your axxes!!
Rares and elites have increased their health for every person attacking them since this expansion dropped...

While this is true, it doesn't necessarily exclude the possibility that ilvl scaling introduced some weird buggy behaviour.
03/31/2017 02:36 PMPosted by Elnira
03/31/2017 02:30 PMPosted by Roxette
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Other players aren't ruining my experience - remember blizzard fixed that.

But they were and somehow you knew Blizz would eventually change 99.9% of every other player's experience to give your little 0.1% that is you a "fixed" experience? Nah I doubt you gripped on through 7.1.5 just hoping it would change if your experience is as terrible as you really claim it to be. At this point I think you're just trolling, especially with how much you scoff at any other reasonable solution to your issue, finding some other immediate fault in it to brush it away. Because "THOSE DAMN RAIDERS NEED TO TAKE LONGER ON MOBS BECAUSE I DO AND I ENJOY IT SO THEY SHOULD PLAY LIKE ME"

Just stop. You have become a bad joke, especially since you've trying to make a thin threat that people disagreeing with you are going to get forum banned.


how odd, I was finding your attempts to try and pick apart and twist around what I said pretty funny.

And I didn't say people disagreeing with me are going to get a forum ban I am pretty sure what you are referring to was my response to the continued personal harassment of blizzard employees. You can't say someone is lying about something unless you can prove intent.

but nice attempt at twisting things.
Just for funsys, not saying it means a whole lot, poll on MMO Champ with some opinions: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.
03/29/2017 02:07 PMPosted by Ornyx

It should also be noted that this change was on the Patch 7.2 PTR (and has been since January). We didn’t communicate anything about it initially because we wanted to get testers’ raw and honest feedback about it when they encountered it themselves, rather than attempting to pre-empt or otherwise influence their opinions ahead of time.


Wow, do you actually talk yourself into believing that? It's not that you did not initially communicate it, you NEVER did at all.

Let me give you some honest feedback.

Even being an iLvl 867 I knew within killing my first THREE mobs that something was wrong on Patch Day, and I emphasis on the word wrong. I chalked up the first two mobs as bad rng, then by the third, I thought am I missing gear, so I look at my iLvL. Everything looked good so I kill a couple more, then check and make sure my Artifact weapon is showing correct data.

I then do a PvP style World Quest and end up getting killed. I have not died in a World Quest in weeks, if not, in a month. I admit I should not have died but my health dropped so fast that I was expecting it to be around 30% when I saw that I was about to die. So I then see in /trade that you can up your crafted items to 875, which I did, all 5 pieces. Ok, now to go out and quest again thinking this will make it easier. Bzzzzzzz! Wrong, wrong, it was like I did nothing.

You guys screwed up and made the gap between non raid and raid power too great to have the raid geared characters doing World Quests that are really for the non-raid geared characters.

Your fix is the band-aid on a broken leg technique when you should be addressing the real problem, not just try an "easy" coverup that just makes it worse.
03/31/2017 02:47 PMPosted by Phumbles
Just for funsys, not saying it means a whole lot, poll on MMO Champ with some opinions: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.


oh is this the website someone was telling me earlier doesn't require people to actually be subscribed to the game to vote/posts on there and consequently nothing on there is valid.

i have to say the comments are amusing though
03/31/2017 02:47 PMPosted by Phumbles
Just for funsys, not saying it means a whole lot, poll on MMO Champ with some opinions: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.


just for funsys

you don't need to to be a paying customer to be part of mmochamp
03/31/2017 02:47 PMPosted by Phumbles
Just for funsys, not saying it means a whole lot, poll on MMO Champ with some opinions: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.
Then you would get many people voting that don't even play wow. Why would you do something stupid and useless like that.
03/31/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Quna

just for funsys

you don't need to to be a paying customer to be part of mmochamp


And? Not every paying customer has experienced the ilvl scaling. And most of them most likely are paying customers.
03/31/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Nayaga
03/31/2017 02:47 PMPosted by Phumbles
Just for funsys, not saying it means a whole lot, poll on MMO Champ with some opinions: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.
Then you would get many people voting that don't even play wow. Why would you do something stupid and useless like that.


lol, I knew excuses would come so I'll just let you make them.
No. Just NO. I really hate this change. Hate hate HATE it. I hated enemy scaling in The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, I hate it here.

If your enemies grow more powerful with you, there's no sense of progression. You never seem to grow more powerful, even when you get really good gear. It all blends to sameness!

-1000 points to Blizzard, the crowd boos, the judges scowl and give a big thumbs down!
03/31/2017 02:52 PMPosted by Phumbles
03/31/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Quna
...

just for funsys

you don't need to to be a paying customer to be part of mmochamp


And? Not every paying customer has experienced the ilvl scaling. And most of them most likely are paying customers.
03/31/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Nayaga
...Then you would get many people voting that don't even play wow. Why would you do something stupid and useless like that.


lol, I knew excuses would come so I'll just let you make them.


blizzard tends to actually pay attention to those polls - they did for the flying one and the actually wording on the question for that was terrible.
03/31/2017 02:32 PMPosted by Roxette
03/31/2017 02:29 PMPosted by Khuldur
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I'd actually say that anytime you make the world grow with the player, you actually increase the volume of potentially interesting gameplay available to that player as he / she gains power.

I do get that most folks would rather just rage about their own perception of this rather irrelevant change that's been made, but hey.


Timewalking dungeons are a perfect example I believe and even fit the intent of that posters statement.

Timewalking dungeons also scale their rewards to the player's level, and those rewards can be used in other content where they do provide a tangible power increase. And they're instanced content with an in-universe justification for playing by different rules.

(Even so, if Timewalking were introduced today, I would hope they'd use Legion's level scaling technology rather than the older "scale everyone down and standardize item levels" approach.)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.
Then you would get many people voting that don't even play wow. Why would you do something stupid and useless like that.[/quote]

If you think every last person in this thread has actually logged in and experienced the apparent trauma of stronger mobs first hand before complaining, I have a bridge to sell you.

It'd be an interesting experiment for Blizzard to say they'd implemented a change in a recent patch, not carry it out, and watch the forums to see how many people chime in about how much better / worse the game feels now.
03/31/2017 02:51 PMPosted by Quna
03/31/2017 02:47 PMPosted by Phumbles
Just for funsys, not saying it means a whole lot, poll on MMO Champ with some opinions: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.


just for funsys

you don't need to to be a paying customer to be part of mmochamp


you don't need to be a paying customer always to post on this forum either as one of the posters in this thread indicated earlier.
03/31/2017 02:47 PMPosted by Phumbles
Just for funsys, not saying it means a whole lot, poll on MMO Champ with some opinions: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)

10-30% against the scale, the rest don't care or like it.


Skewed metric since a) one would have to visit MMO on a near daily routine to see that or else possibly miss it, and b) even if they visit, they'd have to see it in the recent forums tracker on the front page or your post here lest they miss it. Hardly representative of any group.

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