PSA: Creatures now scale with item level

General Discussion
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03/29/2017 04:33 AMPosted by Jazzyk
What bothers me is the lack of transparency especially after they said this would never happen. Why the secrecy? Blizzard should know by now their player base will notice even the slightest change in anything they add to the game. I hope it's a bug but I tend to believe this is not the case. 0,What bothers me is the lack of transparency especially after they said this would never happen. Why the secrecy? Blizzard should know by now their player base will notice even the slightest change in anything they add to the game. I hope it's a bug but I tend to believe this is not the case.


This thread is a perfect example of why they didn't communicate it imo.
So i guess there is no point on farming gear anymore and playing this game?
Gratz Blizz nice way to kill the dead game!
By the end of Mists of Pandaria, wearing just Timeless Isle gear, I was able to basically one-shot normal level 90 mobs on Timeless Isle (current world content), and the 90 elites on TI felt like normal mobs. I never noticed any issues with this system, or felt like it broke the game in any way.

By the end of Warlords of Draenor, wearing heroic HFC gear, I was able to one-shot normal level 100 mobs in Tanaan Jungle (current world content), and I never noticed any issues with the system, or felt like it broke the game in any way.

I don't understand the problem you're trying to solve here. The player base justifiably gets upset when you make a big change that has adverse effects in order to fix a problem that we've never noticed before.
This is the same underhanded method they employed in their attempt to remove flying. Only then they waited until months into the expansion before announcing. (Minus afriasabi's interview three days prior)

What got that change reverted? Cancellations.

I will be calling today, and letting them know I won't be playing past when my last token runs out.

$. That's the only metric that means anything to them now.
LOL after 6 hours of playing today I hadn't even noticed, til someone in game was whining about it. I play squishy toons and always over pull. To me it seemed the same. Maybe its not about the gear all the time and maybe about the skills you play with. I almost always pull to many mobs and get to half health before they all die. If I want to face roll everything I would play Diablo.
03/29/2017 04:35 AMPosted by Profaneblood
03/29/2017 04:33 AMPosted by Jazzyk
What bothers me is the lack of transparency especially after they said this would never happen. Why the secrecy? Blizzard should know by now their player base will notice even the slightest change in anything they add to the game. I hope it's a bug but I tend to believe this is not the case. 0,What bothers me is the lack of transparency especially after they said this would never happen. Why the secrecy? Blizzard should know by now their player base will notice even the slightest change in anything they add to the game. I hope it's a bug but I tend to believe this is not the case.


This thread is a perfect example of why they didn't communicate it imo.
This thread is a perfect example of why they should communicate more before hand.
03/29/2017 04:34 AMPosted by Usami
03/29/2017 04:33 AMPosted by Shukuchi
...

I understand. Looking at the blue response here and lactating on your computer monitor can take some time.


Why so mad, mom not bring your tendies?

If you're this upset over a game, maybe you should go outside.


Well, I waited to tell you this but your own mother and I have known each other for awhile.

Nice to meet you...son. I hope we can form a nice bond.
03/28/2017 05:55 PMPosted by Jegethy
03/28/2017 05:39 PMPosted by Azevara
...It would help if during this data collection you recorded the item levels people were at (bag/equipped both). There's a very good chance that this feature has a cap/diminishing returns somewhere, because they were planning on making world mobs harder to keep the power gap from getting too ridiculous, but not undermine gear completely.

Now logically, this would be implemented with scaling, as opposed to a flat damage/health increase, because a fresh 110 should hopefully still have the same experience they did before the patch (or else they run the risk of being too squishy). So actual data on how far-reaching the effects are would be important to determine whether or not this really affects people's sense of progression.

For example at ilvl 866, Ambassador D'vwinn in Suramar has 5.8M health, which is roughly a 15% increase. At 859 he has 5.3M which is roughly 12%, and at 900 he has 7.6M which is roughly a 50% increase.

Seems like the scaling gets more aggressive as the item level increases.

If you're not doing *at least* 50% more DPS at 900 than you did at 850, I don't know what to tell you but I'm pretty sure you're doing something wrong. Scaling will partly offset your progression so mobs don't become complete jokes, but you should still outscale them significantly if those are the numbers.

This is also probably why they buffed the amount of damage tanks and healers get per Artifact Power, which may take a few days to play out as you farm some at AK26+. Under the new patch they probably don't expect to see many 900s without the 10% more of everything trait.
03/28/2017 10:48 PMPosted by Watcher
for example, the mantid of Dread Wastes that had once been reasonable foes were completely trivial. They'd basically evaporate if a raid-geared player looked in their general direction

By that time I killed 3 Shas, their Empress, and two Mogu emperors. It would be weird if they weren't trivial.
I don't even see the point.

There is no gear that's going to drop off a BI world quest that is going to be better than what I have equipped. The 4 dauntless tokens I got randomly yesterday all got turned into gold as I laughed at the 850 gear they created.

The only thing to do them for yesterday was the Legionfall resources which go towards something everyone of every ilvl can use.

The excuse about the degeneration of the end game content, it not being fair to the person casting a spell that gets cut off but someone is spamming and tagging ads, and the implication that they know better than we do how we want to play the game is just purely laughable.

Considering the only thing I'll likely get out of the Broken Isle that I'll need is nethershards. Either towards Relinquished Tokens (which I don't even know what ilvl they create) or AP or Legionfall resources (which everyone benefits from). In other words, I'll be going into BI to grind. This whole expac has been about gating and grinding and the only message I take from ilvl scaling is:

"We want you to grind at a pace that we want you to grind."

World of Grindcraft. The struggle is real.
Do you want all your fans to go to FFXIV? Because this is how you do that.
Blizzard should really be talking more with us here in this thread.

I'd even go as far as to say you need to make an emergency short video and sticky it or a statement explaining what you intended to change, why you did it this way, why it failed to change as intended, and your reaction to the extreme backlash.

You don't even have to apologize for it. You just should be talking with us on this.

You left I think one blue post, maybe more in the pages? You basically said "yeah we did it, yeah its bugged we will fix it" "yeah we intended this but didn't hit the mark" and then a "don't worry, this doesn't change anything, you'll still be powerful, gearing will still matter"

People are obviously upset not at you specifically Watcher and Blizzard. This is the big kicker here. We are not personally witch hunting you or blizzard, lore, the goat CM, we are not doing that.

Most posters here feel genuinely let down, some of them very positive with 100s of upvotes.

You can't just try let this dry out over time. Make an emergency statement. Do a big long text statement (or as I'm saying I think a vocal statement would be more beneficial).

Please don't treat us with deaf ears and a later Q&A "yeah we did stuff up but don't worry this is better!"

Please talk to us.
03/29/2017 04:37 AMPosted by Therak
LOL after 6 hours of playing today I hadn't even noticed, til someone in game was whining about it. I play squishy toons and always over pull. To me it seemed the same. Maybe its not about the gear all the time and maybe about the skills you play with. I almost always pull to many mobs and get to half health before they all die. If I want to face roll everything I would play Diablo.


Except Diablo has a paragon type system so you don't faceroll but you have to adjust the difficulty. WoW has it's own version, it's this thing called raids. It's a RPG, nothing excuses grinding more powerful gear to have the same relative power to any mob. You have your raids to have mobs with higher difficulties. Why even have gear then? You act like this isn't a massive change, it's the biggest secret they've kept and release probably ever. It's undermined the core of this MMO, it's loot and power system.

You have many options already to pressure your gear, this change is not needed and they will soon learn judging by this thread it's not welcomed. This thread is moving faster nearly than that whole abhorrent REALID REAL NAME debacle.

Don't you think for just one second maybe they should have let their playerbase know first about this huge change?
So there is no point in getting better gear. Everything remains equally as hard to kill. What's the point in playing then? You're removing all sense of progression. My undergeared toons will have an easier time of it than my top geared toons. That's Fu€k3d up.

I don't care how you try to justify it, this is a blatent lie. You said you'd not do ilvl scaling. Period. Revert this in full or watch your sub numbers tank.
03/29/2017 04:37 AMPosted by Shukuchi
03/29/2017 04:34 AMPosted by Usami
...

Why so mad, mom not bring your tendies?

If you're this upset over a game, maybe you should go outside.


Well, I waited to tell you this but your own mother and I have known each other for awhile.

Nice to meet you...son. I hope we can form a nice bond.


The WoW playerbase ladies and gentlemen. Crying over changes and mom jokes.

Clearly the pinnacle of human advancement right here.

We've achieved Nirvana boys, lets pack it up. It doesn't get any better than this.
03/28/2017 06:44 PMPosted by Iyoma
<span class="truncated">...</span>

What game are yall playing? I quested as Blood and felt like a God. I also switched to Unholy because Kil'jaden's Burning Wish dropped and was still annihilating all in my path.

Not sure what the complaints are. Out of stuff to cry about?


You're a death knight, the class that's been able to solo raid bosses in the same expansion they're released. Of course it won't be as tough on you. Not the same for other classes (elemental shaman, for example).


I didnt notice the difference until I read this and I played a few of my classes not just DK.

[quote="207522479415"]<span class="truncated">...</span>

Why so mad, mom not bring your tendies?

If you're this upset over a game, maybe you should go outside.


Well, I waited to tell you this but your own mother and I have known each other for awhile.

Nice to meet you...son. I hope we can form a nice bond.


I have a feeling that players in the thread complaining about this change are probably some of the worst gamers on earth.
This feels absolutely deceptive. Last night, I went to do normal world quests, world quests that haven't had and still won't have upgrades for me, and it's been that way for months. A Warden quest mob that I've been able to (a bit difficult and it would always take a while) solo or two man rolled over me like a damn truck. I saw it annihilate other people. I ended up having to join the group finder to destroy a standard quest I've been able to do myself before. I thought something might be wrong with my interface, or maybe demo warlocks were nerfed significantly and maybe I missed the news in the patch. Instead, someone in LFG told me about the reddit post, and I checked myself. Depending on what mob it is, even simple mobs scale to 20-22% higher than they do around 850 item level.

There is little incentive for me to do world quests anymore. Not only did you make this affect the Broken Isle, but also other world quests. As a casual player, this makes things wholly unappealing. Spend more time killing the same stuff for zero upgrades? Oh, I could get a legendary, but I already have two, so what's the point? Nothing. Except the rep grind that you keep pushing onto everyone, one of the things I hate the most in this game.

On top of that, this change was made absolutely deceptively. You all wanted to see how we'd all react if the change was made, so you snuck this in and avoided mentioning it in the patch notes. I spent the small amount of time I had to play last night wondering if there was some change made to warlocks because I kept dying to stuff I knew I was capable of doing only Monday, only to find all of this out.

If I didn't run a guild of people I care about immensely, I would officially be quitting this game and never look back. If I wanted a game where mobs got more difficult based on the gear I was equipping at the time, there's tons of games out there with that feature that I've actively avoided. Looks like WoW's being added to that list. What's next? Slipping in item level scaling for current raid content?

Way to completely piss your user base off. There goes the little faith many of your users had in you.
Also, i've noticed no one plays likes playing healers this patch all that much.

You think making it harder on them is going to help?
As of this moment I see no point in doing any content beyond what's necessary to finish class campaigns and crafting. My account HAS existed since Vanilla, and my life has evolved drastically since that time; now I'm married, I have a house to maintain, family to care for, and I don't have time to bust my face against content ify characters won't become any more powerful. All of this on top of needless time gates and cosmetic changes to the characters my wife plays has made the game undesirable at the moment.

In MMORPGs you get gear to kill stuff faster. I had hoped an authority on the genre would understand that.

The short version is, Blizzard devs, I do not trust you any longer.
03/29/2017 04:37 AMPosted by Sairia
03/29/2017 04:35 AMPosted by Profaneblood
...

This thread is a perfect example of why they didn't communicate it imo.
This thread is a perfect example of why they should communicate more before hand.


It would have happened with or without communication. In addition, this particular change would have been perceived very negatively by the portion of players that engage in PTR testing (players like the overwhelming majority in this thread). We don't know if other kinds of players are more receptive of this kind of change so in order to gather feedback from these players, a live test may have been considered appropriate.

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