PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

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So are they ever going to remove this mess or are they just going to ignore it like spoiled children and hope it goes away?

Because it's obviously not.
Why shouldn't mob scaling be in the game at all?


Since you weren't paying attention, let's just take a look at this again:

We can see a trend in the MMO genre of games that have implemented scaling to create new game modes in old content and call it "new content". This is objectively bad for a game as it kills activity and active users.
04/10/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Teiah


Is this also including the Ilvl of every piece of gear you have in your bank as well?


It does. It also counts items in the vendor buyback tab (which they hastily hotfixed in) so that you can't "sell" items, do your questing/chores/etc, and then buy them back.
04/10/2017 01:03 PMPosted by Skyly
It does. It also counts items in the vendor buyback tab (which they hastily hotfixed in) so that you can't "sell" items, do your questing/chores/etc, and then buy them back.


Thank you @ Skyly.

This means I'll have to re-prioritize how to get through the content.

1- @ 110, stop all progression that rewards gear. This includes: WQ's, CH quest, Invasions, Heroic Dungeons, LFR.
2- Instead of progressing toward End Game Content-- I'll be forced to sit on Broken shores to farm rep.
3- There's no content left for me to do that doesn't come with a punishment for doing it until Broken Sores is completed and I no longer need it.

I thought as new content came it was supposed to push progression, not make it regress backwards.
To top that off, people will experience it differently based on the toon that they're on. Healers, in particular, have more reason to be upset because it can dramatically impact their play. .[/quote]
So much this, ive played holy this entire expac since i strongly dislike atonement healing in disc and really dont enjoy shadow. Right when killing mobs finally started to feel good, it got kicked right back to things taking too long
To top that off, people will experience it differently based on the toon that they're on. Healers, in particular, have more reason to be upset because it can dramatically impact their play. .

So much this, ive played holy this entire expac since i strongly dislike atonement healing in disc and really dont enjoy shadow. Right when killing mobs finally started to feel good, it got kicked right back to things taking too long


Speaking as somebody who alts a shadow priest, priests really get the short end of the stick.

The ramp-up time for shadow dps was sluggish already before this change, and has only grown worse. It's even more of a struggle with multiple foes (which is the new norm, if you haven't noticed).

04/10/2017 01:12 PMPosted by Teiah

Thank you @ Skyly.
This means I'll have to re-prioritize how to get through the content.
1- @ 110, stop all progression that rewards gear. This includes: WQ's, CH quest, Invasions, Heroic Dungeons, LFR.
2- Instead of progressing toward End Game Content-- I'll be forced to sit on Broken shores to farm rep.
3- There's no content left for me to do that doesn't come with a punishment for doing it until Broken Sores is completed and I no longer need it.

I thought as new content came it was supposed to push progression, not make it regress backwards.


Right. I mean, that's an extreme response. It won't kill you to acquire gear and face mobs with more HP, certainly, but the bottom line is you shouldn't have to? Progression should be progression, and this is not a change that should've gone live mid-expansion.

What should happen is:
1) Significant squishing of ilvl gap between intro and hardcore raid loot, for the rest of Legion, to stem the tide.
2) Some of us can one-shot mobs. It's just going to be that way, because of the development team's poor design/bad planning. The answer isn't to nerf us after we've earned our power. Maybe lean on world content less and give us more, new, challenging things to do, or incentivize us to play our alts in spite of the AP grind?
3) Wait until the next expansion, or long into the (inevitable) year-long slump after Argus, THEN do a stat squish.
4) Scale ilvl of equipment way better going forward. Like, how is this still a problem? They've been complaining for years about it, but then just keep increasing the ilvl gap in each tier. There's no reason to have a 65+ point gap.
04/10/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Tresska
Why shouldn't mob scaling be in the game at all?

Since you weren't paying attention, let's just take a look at this again:

We can see a trend in the MMO genre of games that have implemented scaling to create new game modes in old content and call it "new content". This is objectively bad for a game as it kills activity and active users.

I was paying attention. But thank you for the assumption, it was much appreciated.

And...

Says who? What trend? What other games? Name one single game with a life-span anywhere close to, and a playerbase anywhere close to, World of Warcraft that has implemented this type of scaling and had negative effects such as you're referring to.

And I don't mean games like SW:ToR and Eve Online and Tara. Those couldn't compare to this one if their lives depended on it. I mean an MMO that has had several years in the "millions of subscribers" category...just 1 or 2 million will suffice.

Let me see your sources. I really want to see them because I can find nothing on Google. Although I'll admit that I may be searching the wrong thing. Please, give me something. I will back you up 1000% if you can give me anything at all that shows how a minimum scaling that is barely noticeable could possibly do anything at all to harm this, or any, game. Something so minuscule in affect that had it been in the expansion from launch day no one would have ever even noticed it as a thing. How is this going to "kill the game"?
04/10/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Cleosaptrix
So are they ever going to remove this mess


I really don't think so. At this point I'm wondering if we'll even hear about it again.
Can someone please explain to me how this works? I mean does the scaling go by your over all item level, (which mine would be 900), or does it go by your equipped item level, (which mine would be 890) ?

Just would like to know which set of item level numbers the scaling is pulling from.
Thanks


Your legendaries in your bag don't count - that's been confirmed.


04/10/2017 10:28 AMPosted by Trallara
04/10/2017 10:08 AMPosted by Teshly
Can someone please explain to me how this works? I mean does the scaling go by your over all item level, (which mine would be 900), or does it go by your equipped item level, (which mine would be 890) ?


Over-all.

They also put in some random fix that legendaries in your bags don't contribute to it or something. Although it might count two of them, or one if that's all you can wear. I confess I don't fully know the details of that, but they did change it slightly in the patch to not count extra legendaries(...somehow).


Thank You to both of you :)

This is rather silly, I think. I have to fight mobs based on my item lvl 900 vs my actual item level........ sheesh.
04/10/2017 01:18 PMPosted by Skyly
Right. I mean, that's an extreme response. It won't kill you to acquire gear and face mobs with more HP, certainly, but the bottom line is you shouldn't have to? Progression should be progression, and this is not a change that should've gone live mid-expansion.


Unlike a lot of folks, my game time is usually somewhere between 5-10 hours per week. It's not a lot of in scope of things and I want to feel like my time isn't wasted (or my money). Gearing up only for it be used against me seems like it's a waste of my money and my time.

EDIT: It seems I came into Legion at a wonky time. While there's no real content to Broken Shores, it leads me into a different spot than the rest of the masses. Others have progressed further than I and I see this as honestly just a time gate. So rather than dealing with the Ilvl scaling fustration-- This seems like a better option. I'm not getting geared up only to feel like I'm being pushed back down.

Really wish now I would have waited to get Legion until 100% of the content was available.
04/10/2017 02:01 PMPosted by Skyly
04/10/2017 12:59 PMPosted by Cleosaptrix
So are they ever going to remove this mess


I really don't think so. At this point I'm wondering if we'll even hear about it again.

I don't think we will. I think the only thing that is going to get attention is mass sub losses.
04/10/2017 02:35 PMPosted by Vynara
I don't think we will. I think the only thing that is going to get attention is mass sub losses.


somehow I doubt that'll even get the time of day from Blizz. the way they look at it, the people who leave "didn't love WoW"...in truth they DID. they just don't agree with what Blizz is doing, all in the name of their "vision", which is frankly, nothing more than a steaming pile of *expletive*.

it's sad how trolls can curse/swear, or harass other posters and Blizz turns a blind eye to their behavior, (which only further proves they're in bed with the trolls) while anyone who questions the decisions put into this game, are often met with the inability to post on the forums for hours/days/weeks at a time. all because they were suspended/banned due to language/harassment of other players, DESPITE no evidence to the contrary.

I knew some people in GD were pretty crass, but to learn some of the CM's in control of GD are just as bad? That's just sad. :|
67 hours and my first sub goes dark. the clock is ticking. was hoping blizzard would only take a day or two to reverse this stealth feature in 7.2 ptr then 7.2 live.

the only thing that will get this removed is a massive loss of subs. If that were to happen you can bet blizzard would fire Ion and the entire development team for the fiasco. you don't lose a large number of paying customers and then get a pension and a ticker tape parade. you pretty much get escorted out of the building
Let's not talk about priest all the time. Trying being shammy. I only played as enhancement and resto. I already wanted to kill myself when I reached 110. Talk about paper-thin dps, I don't think any class could be as painful as enhancement that just starting to grind WQ.
04/10/2017 03:22 PMPosted by Lucyfaithful
67 hours and my first sub goes dark. the clock is ticking. was hoping blizzard would only take a day or two to reverse this stealth feature in 7.2 ptr then 7.2 live.

the only thing that will get this removed is a massive loss of subs. If that were to happen you can bet blizzard would fire Ion and the entire development team for the fiasco. you don't lose a large number of paying customers and then get a pension and a ticker tape parade. you pretty much get escorted out of the building


Though your posts were few(compared to old forum crawlers like me) they were always on point and helpful. you will be missed.

Take care, fly safe and land soft.

edit spelling kupo
I came back from vacation for a week, and it looks like this 'feature' is here to stay. I cancelled by sub a moment ago. This changes WoW fundamentally and it's just not for me anymore. GLHF to all.
Had another week to play with this scaling, scrap it.
04/10/2017 03:22 PMPosted by Lucyfaithful
67 hours and my first sub goes dark. the clock is ticking. was hoping blizzard would only take a day or two to reverse this stealth feature in 7.2 ptr then 7.2 live.

the only thing that will get this removed is a massive loss of subs. If that were to happen you can bet blizzard would fire Ion and the entire development team for the fiasco. you don't lose a large number of paying customers and then get a pension and a ticker tape parade. you pretty much get escorted out of the building


they wouldn't though. they'd blame us for not telling them anything. which is ironic, because that's EXACTLY what we're doing. We're telling them what's wrong, but they refuse to listen, because what we're telling them, doesn't reflect what they WANT to hear.

Lore would just flip us off for refusing to bend over for their "vision"...which is just outright depressing honestly. Blizzard will go down in history as being worse than EA, Ubisoft or even Capcom.
Really? STILL no blue post? Blizz, you've had all day to respond, you've had weeks to respond. They know this thread exists, they're choosing to ignore it, which is honestly, infuriating. Because they know once everyone's subs end that dislike this change, the voice that they were right will be unanimous.
04/10/2017 03:26 PMPosted by Lunarfel
Let's not talk about priest all the time. Trying being shammy. I only played as enhancement and resto. I already wanted to kill myself when I reached 110. Talk about paper-thin dps, I don't think any class could be as painful as enhancement that just starting to grind WQ.

My shammy got shelved this expansion. She has since the beginning of BC been either resto or elemental. SHe was just too painful to level this time around.

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