PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

General Discussion
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04/03/2017 04:56 PMPosted by Nayaga
It's a fact you have no idea what I'm posting about and you likely never will. You have become a waste of time since this is a one way conversation.


Good I proved you wrong and you yet to accept it. Just give up already. I will keep trying to help you with logic, but the more truth you see..the more upset you get.

Calm down take a walk, come back and we can keep going. Right now though, you are not thinking clearly.
04/03/2017 04:59 PMPosted by Ràger
04/03/2017 04:56 PMPosted by Nayaga
It's a fact you have no idea what I'm posting about and you likely never will. You have become a waste of time since this is a one way conversation.


Good I proved you wrong and you yet to accept it. Just give up already. I will keep trying to help you with logic, but the more truth you see..the more upset you get.

Calm down take a walk, come back and we can keep going. Right now though, you are not thinking clearly.


Dude, even though we can disagree, there's no reason to belittle them.
04/03/2017 05:01 PMPosted by Sepset
04/03/2017 04:59 PMPosted by Ràger
...

Good I proved you wrong and you yet to accept it. Just give up already. I will keep trying to help you with logic, but the more truth you see..the more upset you get.

Calm down take a walk, come back and we can keep going. Right now though, you are not thinking clearly.


Dude, even though we can disagree, there's no reason to belittle them.


I am not. I am trying to HELP him. He clearly is getting upset with me. I am telling him he needs to go take a walk to calm down. How is that belittle them?
All I can see are two very deceased equines taking undeserved fongings of legendary proportions.

This thread along with it's predecessor has served it's purpose, but the line between feedback and noise has been well and truly crossed.

Time it should be allowed to slide into oblivion.

Apologies for the off topic post.
04/03/2017 05:04 PMPosted by Ràger
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Dude, even though we can disagree, there's no reason to belittle them.


I am not. I am trying to HELP him. He clearly is getting upset with me. I am telling him he needs to go take a walk to calm down. How is that belittle them?


By being flippant and condescending to the person instead of engaging his argument.

I for one see the ilvl scaling as a boon (if it works), but I don't straight up insult the opposition when they disagree.
Off-topic, but... God I hate Mondays.

Slightly on-topic: My Monday night devolved into me debating personal gameplay philosophy with people unwilling to see another viewpoint as legitimate. Not naming names but they're here in this thread.

On-topic: Scaling has its ups and downs, and we all have different opinions on how important the ups and downs are in relation to each other. Why don't we all just stop trying to change each others' opinions and simply try to understand each other? Cos CLEARLY changing each other's minds isn't working.

All I can see are two very deceased equines taking undeserved fongings of legendary proportions.

This thread along with it's predecessor has served it's purpose, but the line between feedabck and noise has been well and truly crossed.

Time it should be allowed to slide into oblivion.

Apologies for the off topic post.


The purpose has not been served until we get a better result from Blizzard. Like the outright removal of zone and iLevel scaling. Or at least a concrete statement detailing WHY they won't do such a thing, and without lawyerspeak.

Seriously, Watcher, you're a game dev now, not a lawyer. Please just be straight with us. Look how GUN Media interacts with its customers, you could learn a thing or two from them.
04/03/2017 01:18 PMPosted by Lohannah
However I do think that the tokens should be BoA for this reason. Also min ilevel is how you avoid scaling issues.


I have to agree 100%. I also voiced this same idea the first day the patch dropped. I also had issue with them not being BoA when i found out the ilvl floor on the isle's is 850, i also asked for BoA tokens then also. We have the 880 tokens for our toons once they get there.
04/03/2017 05:04 PMPosted by Ràger
04/03/2017 05:01 PMPosted by Sepset
...

Dude, even though we can disagree, there's no reason to belittle them.


I am not. I am trying to HELP him. He clearly is getting upset with me. I am telling him he needs to go take a walk to calm down. How is that belittle them?


Try adressing the point I made to you instead of talking in circles, provoking and frustrating people
...

I am not. I am trying to HELP him. He clearly is getting upset with me. I am telling him he needs to go take a walk to calm down. How is that belittle them?


By being flippant and condescending to the person instead of engaging his argument.

I for one see the ilvl scaling as a boon (if it works), but I don't straight up insult the opposition when they disagree.


I am sorry, but if that is how you see it..that is fine. All the attacks, and how he has been acting at me, when I debated him all this time. being "flippant and consdescending" Is very minor things compare to how he has been acting to myself and others who he does not agree with.

At least I gave my reasons.
04/03/2017 04:05 PMPosted by Sarda
This thread has devolved into the same 5 people just trying to derail each other while everyone downvotes them with everyone else seemingly given up.

I haven't given up on the issue. It's just that everything that could be said about this issue has been made known to Blizzard repeatedly by this point, so I'll only be checking for more blue reponses going forward. It's just not worth my time to keep arguing in circles with the same handful of contrarians here.
Y'know....my desire to play has seriously dropped off since them.

Used to raid, am casual now. Sometimes do dungeons, but generally just screw around with WQs and multiple alts. I usually focused on the ones with item rewards, for the rare titanforged upgraded item that boosts my ilvl.

And now, the only way to feel progress re: alts is grinding AP for those little +0.5% damage boosts, and the rare possibility of a titan upgrade to an artifact, because that contributes to the weapon's DPS in addition to its iLvL

That's it. It's just stupid. I mean, I'm not struggling against any mobs or anything like it, but I keep thinking: what is the point of trying to find upgrades if the act of upgrading nullifies itself?

I dunno....not that they or anyone cares, but they better roll this back or fix it in some way because I really don't know if I'll keep playing if there isn't a point to play, at least the way I am. This was the second time I've come back after taking a break (unsub), etc., and I did it because I really wanted to believe Blizzard learned its lesson.

Then they lied again.

Getting better gear only matters for raids now, really. (I know dungeons aren't ilvl scaled but they're easy)
04/03/2017 05:09 PMPosted by Derah
Y'know....my desire to play has seriously dropped off since them.

Used to raid, am casual now. Sometimes do dungeons, but generally just screw around with WQs and multiple alts. I usually focused on the ones with item rewards, for the rare titanforged upgraded item that boosts my ilvl.

And now, the only way to feel progress re: alts is grinding AP for those little +0.5% damage boosts, and the rare possibility of a titan upgrade to an artifact, because that contributes to the weapon's DPS in addition to its iLvL

That's it. It's just stupid. I mean, I'm not struggling against any mobs or anything like it, but I keep thinking: what is the point of trying to find upgrades if the act of upgrading nullifies itself?

I dunno....not that they or anyone cares, but they better roll this back or fix it in some way because I really don't know if I'll keep playing if there isn't a point to play, at least the way I am.

Getting better gear only matters for raids now, really. (I know dungeons aren't ilvl scaled but they're easy)


Ok. New poster. Don't overreact.

Sir, power progression was stated by a blue to be something they understand the value of and will preserve. It is currently preserved and there is no reason to think it won't be in the future.
Thank you for your concern
04/03/2017 04:56 PMPosted by Phumbles
So how does this relate to mob scaling? How does it ruin your fun if it feels nearly identical?

And yes, you've said it slows down gameplay. You haven't proven it. No one has.
It doesn't feel "nearly identical" to me.

It has been demonstrated many times, by many customer how it's taking longer to kill mobs now.

If we are killing mobs at the same speed as before mob health was increased with this change, I would not be here giving Blizzard my feedback.

When you say "no one has" proven it, when it's been done many times, it leads the reader to question your posts.

Why did Blizzard make this change if not to slow the killing down?

This is why Blizzard justified the design change
We tune outdoor combat for a fresh 110 around a 12-15sec duration against a standard non-elite, non-boss enemy. It's great for gear, over the course of an expansion to cut that time in half, or even by two-thirds. But once you get down to a duration of one or two global cooldowns, the game just wasn't built to support that as the norm.
I would have directly quote blue from the original thread, but it's have lots of 500 errors.

He is saying we are killing mobs too fast, "one global cooldown". What they done is increase the health so we can't one shot a mob. More that one shot takes longer.

Thus this change is all about slowing us down.
04/03/2017 04:49 PMPosted by Tresska
Don't oversimplify. Let me put it like this

Mob scaling was a very unpopular idea. To settle people's fears they set clear boundaries which they have now crossed. Those boundaries were crossed without so much as communication.


I don't think it is unpopular at all. I think people are more worried about power progression with it. As long as we can keep gaining power and feel stronger. No matter what system we have. We will be fine with.

04/03/2017 04:49 PMPosted by Tresska
With that in mind anyone should be able to see how it can easily feel that we were lied to, tricked into buying an expansion with a design philosophy that we wanted nothing to do with.


Hm, I see it more like..they changed their mind on it. At that time they felt it was not needed. I think Blizzard did handle it poorly though.

04/03/2017 04:49 PMPosted by Tresska
Now perhaps this was all unintentional, fine, but at the least it is still unintentionally misleading and those boundaries were still crossed. This is damaging to the trust many have with the development team and blizzard as a whole. This game, being a subscription model, banking on quality over phone game gimmicks, survives on the concept of brand loyalty.

At this point many of us, feeling lied to and deceived have had our brand loyalty, our trust diminished. It is easy for our minds to latch onto the most extremely bad outcomes of this "feature". I personally feel it would be the best thing for the community, the game and even the development team if this were removed from the game entirely.

Whatever potential small amount of good anyone can see coming from this I believe is pale in comparison to the long term trust and loyalty it can damage.


True enough, but Blizzard already did this with the whole flying thing for many players. It is not the first time Blizzard has done it.

I still stand by what I said before. This gives players a reason to stand up to Blizzard and fight for change on how they handle things, or talk to us more. This does not mean the scaling should be removed. The two problems are not the same.
04/03/2017 05:11 PMPosted by Nayaga
When you say "no one has" proven it, when it's been done many times, it leads the reader to question your posts.


Then why do I get zilch every time I ask for proof?

He is saying we are killing mobs to fast, "one global cooldown". What they done is increase the health so we can't one shot a mob. More that one shot takes longer.

This this change is all about slowing us down.
That doesn't equal slowing us down. And if slowing us down simply means 2-3 shotting instead of 1 shotting, good luck garnering sympathy.
I said a lot in the first thread:
Does it slow us down? Yes? Does it slow us down significantly? As in, is it even a noticeable amount? Nearly 50% of WQs aren't even killing quests and a lot of time spent on killing quest is spent running around and gathering mobs/items and waiting for respawns, not on the actual killing.

Why are you so concerned about your time? It's a game. Sure we shouldn't be wasting hours for no reason, but there's a certain margain that's acceptable. And I'd say we're well within that margin. Say something took a minute to kill in the beginning of the expansion and takes a 1:10 now. If it took a 1:10 in the beginning of the expansion you wouldn't even know to have a problem with it. We're killing stuff so fast, there's a bit of leeway for that to go down.
I'd still like to see proof that there's any real time difference.
04/03/2017 04:54 PMPosted by Hushpaw
04/03/2017 04:50 PMPosted by Dinrry
Is it just me or did the three trolls just magically get off the ignore list today? I can see their posts despite telling the system I explicitly didn't want that.

It's not just me, then. Interesting.


04/03/2017 04:56 PMPosted by Vynara
04/03/2017 04:50 PMPosted by Dinrry
Is it just me or did the three trolls just magically get off the ignore list today? I can see their posts despite telling the system I explicitly didn't want that.

One of them did for me. Other 2 stayed put. I think the forum is glitchy.


At the same time the trolls got off my ignore list, I started having a "must wait x seconds before next post" timer.
04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
04/03/2017 05:11 PMPosted by Nayaga
When you say "no one has" proven it, when it's been done many times, it leads the reader to question your posts.


Then why do I get zilch every time I ask for proof?


Bingo. all i see is we don't like be slow down, but when we counter that you won't be slowed down at higher item level. It is like no answer at all.

They don't understand that all that happen was the power scale got tone back, and you will have the same power again as before. You just got to get the gear for it. Just like the start of a expansion.
04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
04/03/2017 05:11 PMPosted by Nayaga
When you say "no one has" proven it, when it's been done many times, it leads the reader to question your posts.


Then why do I get zilch every time I ask for proof?


Because no one is going to go out of their way to build a time machine, go back in time, record gameplay footage, come back to the present, record gameplay footage, and then edit the two footages into a side-by-side comparison video for your convenience. All they can do is relate their own personal experience via written word, which apparently is not good enough for you.
04/03/2017 04:59 PMPosted by Ràger
04/03/2017 04:56 PMPosted by Nayaga
It's a fact you have no idea what I'm posting about and you likely never will. You have become a waste of time since this is a one way conversation.


Good I proved you wrong and you yet to accept it. Just give up already. I will keep trying to help you with logic, but the more truth you see..the more upset you get.

Calm down take a walk, come back and we can keep going. Right now though, you are not thinking clearly.
You have not proven me wrong. You aren't using logic.

Sadly you aren't and can't listen to others point of view. I feel sorry for the people that live around you, you must put them through hell.

Nothing you have said has changed what I like in the game or not. Something you can't seem to grasp.
04/03/2017 05:09 PMPosted by Derah
That's it. It's just stupid. I mean, I'm not struggling against any mobs or anything like it, but I keep thinking: what is the point of trying to find upgrades if the act of upgrading nullifies itself?


Yeah, you're in agreement with most of the people in this thread. This is more or less exactly how I feel as well. The last thing this game needs to do is make people less excited about getting gear. Chasing gear, after all, is a pretty large part of the game design and overall player goal.

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