PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

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the line between feedabck and noise has been well and truly crossed.


I have to agree here. They left this open and extended it so we can voice our opinion and or fix to the problem at hand.

I say, since they posted Wayyyyy back in September of 2016 that they would NEVER put in scaling, they should scrap it. Putting it in so sneaky, with players on the PTR mostly interested(vast majority tbh) in getting an edge on everyone when the patch drops and the dungeon and raid fight practice instead of leaving feedback and even noticing ANYTHING but their tunnelvision goal of gaining a upper hand. You could have put your underhanded plan in release notes for the PTR because you know as well as i do that noone is there to notice if you snuck in scaling.

I would have, and being 880 and getting snuffed every turn because of insanely fast spawns, way to many imps, opposite faction tagging 50 mobs at the portals and getting me killed 20 times. Darn right i would have noticed, and those 200g repair bills would have had me blowing all kinds of smoke on the PTR forum. Btw, i did post feedback and it went by the wayside as usual about the crazy AP design and punishment of players wanting to farm AP and the HUGE time gate of AK.

Scrap the scaling, or make the tokens BoA and let us work on the 880 gear tokens!
04/03/2017 05:16 PMPosted by Aladrath
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Then why do I get zilch every time I ask for proof?


Because no one is going to go out of their way to build a time machine, go back in time, record gameplay footage, come back to the present, record gameplay footage, and then edit the two footages into a side-by-side comparison video for your convenience. All they can do is relate their own personal experience via written word, which apparently is not good enough for you.


It's not good enough for science the scientific method. Being unable to prove something does not mean you default to the worst.
And it doesn't take a time machine to prove some of these complaints wrong or right.
04/03/2017 05:16 PMPosted by Aladrath
04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
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Then why do I get zilch every time I ask for proof?


Because no one is going to go out of their way to build a time machine, go back in time, record gameplay footage, come back to the present, record gameplay footage, and then edit the two footages into a side-by-side comparison video for your convenience. All they can do is relate their own personal experience via written word, which apparently is not good enough for you.


Logically the ilvl scaling would increase time-to-kill, simply because the mobs are scaling (in health) to accommodate the players ilvl to a degree. I don't know why she's trying to refute that.
04/03/2017 05:18 PMPosted by Vetokend
Yeah, you're in agreement with most of the people in this thread. This is more or less exactly how I feel as well. The last thing this game needs to do is make people less excited about getting gear. Chasing gear, after all, is a pretty large part of the game design and overall player goal.


Yet again, at higher item levels things become easier and you gain back the power you once had. You did this grind at the start of the expansion. Why is it a problem now? This "problem" only happen because the new system came into place. Going forward you won't have this problem.
I don't think it is unpopular at all. I think people are more worried about power progression with it. As long as we can keep gaining power and feel stronger. No matter what system we have. We will be fine with.


Not true. When mob scaling was first announced there was HUGE backlash. The entire reason we have that Ion quote about item level and scaling was to alleviate some of those concerns. Many became cool with it while others were just barely pacified enough to take a "wait and see" mentality. I personally have not liked scaling in any way shape or form.

Now, boundaries were set that in part diffused the issue and convinced many to go ahead and buy legion and give it a try. We played it in spite of scaling, some maybe even started to enjoy it. I personally have hated it. I especially hate the power roller coaster but that is a separate issue.

Now there is news that those boundaries were clearly crossed. How are we to feel about that?
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Because no one is going to go out of their way to build a time machine, go back in time, record gameplay footage, come back to the present, record gameplay footage, and then edit the two footages into a side-by-side comparison video for your convenience. All they can do is relate their own personal experience via written word, which apparently is not good enough for you.


Logically the ilvl scaling would increase time-to-kill, simply because the mobs are scaling (in health) to accommodate the players ilvl to a degree. I don't know why she's trying to refute that.

Because realistically, the mob hp change between 850 and 885 for me is lower than my DPS.
All this change means is everyone's getting a slight nudge, but then that's it, the nudge is over and it's back to business as usual. There are so many things that have a larger effect than this that it really isn't a big deal, some classes got nerfs this patch that will cost them more time than scaling will.
04/03/2017 05:22 PMPosted by Snùg
The literal intent of the scaling change, is to reduce the power curve. The entire point of it, is to make people not kill things as fast. Why would somebody need to prove to you that the change that is meant to take longer to kill things... is making things take longer to kill?


It's to protect against the "degenerate extreme", not so much make people kill slower. Sorry to quote ahead of your post.
04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
04/03/2017 05:11 PMPosted by Nayaga
When you say "no one has" proven it, when it's been done many times, it leads the reader to question your posts.


Then why do I get zilch every time I ask for proof?

The literal intent of the scaling change, is to reduce the power curve. The entire point of it, is to make people not kill things as fast. Why would somebody need to prove to you that the change that is meant to take longer to kill things... is making things take longer to kill?

If my gear and therefor power level stayed the same, but suddenly the mobs got more health.... then power progression has not been preserved.

As a Restoration Druid, a healing spec, I do not gain anywhere near as much damage per ilevel as they are increasing the health of what I am supposed to kill. My sense of power progression as a healing spec in legion has been severely impacted by this thing they assured me they would not do, because at the time they understood it would cause the things it has caused.

I would like it removed now, Please.
04/03/2017 05:18 PMPosted by Vetokend
04/03/2017 05:09 PMPosted by Derah
That's it. It's just stupid. I mean, I'm not struggling against any mobs or anything like it, but I keep thinking: what is the point of trying to find upgrades if the act of upgrading nullifies itself?


Yeah, you're in agreement with most of the people in this thread. This is more or less exactly how I feel as well. The last thing this game needs to do is make people less excited about getting gear. Chasing gear, after all, is a pretty large part of the game design and overall player goal.


I don't care about gear outside of transmog. What I do care about is the fact something that used to be pleasantly trivial has now become the exact opposite and made it mandatory for me to gear up to do the type of content I previously was able to do VERY easily in only quest reward blues and greens. Oh and now getting gear makes it so that the mobs increase in health which makes it take even longer to kill them, so even though they might not be hitting as hard as you it's still a pain in the !@# to deal with and not fun or rewarding.
04/03/2017 05:20 PMPosted by Sepset
Logically the ilvl scaling would increase time-to-kill, simply because the mobs are scaling (in health) to accommodate the players ilvl to a degree. I don't know why she's trying to refute that.


Yet again this depends on the scaling and how it is done. My friends tell me at 900+ item level they don't feel the item level changes. So at one point your power out scales the hp gain.

Plus we gain a BUNCH of new AP points needed. So our weapon power will go up as well, and that does not scale through item level.
Y'know....my desire to play has seriously dropped off since them.

...


Ok. New poster. Don't overreact.

Sir, power progression was stated by a blue to be something they understand the value of and will preserve. It is currently preserved and there is no reason to think it won't be in the future.
Thank you for your concern


To be totally fair, if power progression was preserved, I wouldn't have a great deal to complain about. A fraction (small or large, not sure) of it was preserved, but I think "reduced" is a more accurate term than "preserved".

Maybe splitting hairs here, but I feel as though it's an important distinction. The OP (in this discussion) has a valid complaint, let's not try and bury it like that.
04/03/2017 05:18 PMPosted by Vetokend
04/03/2017 05:09 PMPosted by Derah
That's it. It's just stupid. I mean, I'm not struggling against any mobs or anything like it, but I keep thinking: what is the point of trying to find upgrades if the act of upgrading nullifies itself?


Yeah, you're in agreement with most of the people in this thread. This is more or less exactly how I feel as well. The last thing this game needs to do is make people less excited about getting gear. Chasing gear, after all, is a pretty large part of the game design and overall player goal.


To add to this sentiment, I strive for better gear to make the other aspects of the game easier for me.
...

Because no one is going to go out of their way to build a time machine, go back in time, record gameplay footage, come back to the present, record gameplay footage, and then edit the two footages into a side-by-side comparison video for your convenience. All they can do is relate their own personal experience via written word, which apparently is not good enough for you.


It's not good enough for science the scientific method. Being unable to prove something does not mean you default to the worst.
And it doesn't take a time machine to prove some of these complaints wrong or right.


They're comparing past experience to present experience so yes, it does, by your logic.
04/03/2017 10:58 AMPosted by Lohannah
04/03/2017 10:56 AMPosted by Eleanõr
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An 8000 comment thread, three days of discontent, and a second thread that needs its cap upped.

Can we get some serious feedback? You say thanks for the feedback, but its a two way street; We need to know what is (or isn't) happening.

Don't forget they did delete part 3 that got made after part 2 got capped. They've been active this morning and that's what makes me salty.

Indeed
04/03/2017 05:20 PMPosted by Ràger
04/03/2017 05:18 PMPosted by Vetokend
Yeah, you're in agreement with most of the people in this thread. This is more or less exactly how I feel as well. The last thing this game needs to do is make people less excited about getting gear. Chasing gear, after all, is a pretty large part of the game design and overall player goal.


Yet again, at higher item levels things become easier and you gain back the power you once had. You did this grind at the start of the expansion. Why is it a problem now? This "problem" only happen because the new system came into place. Going forward you won't have this problem.


At the beginning of the expansion this is expected. Not to be thrust at us in the middle of it. I think that's something you said, and we can agree on.

This is a hypothetical question, but what if this becomes the norm because it's such an easy solution? What if every three months or so, or every patch, mobs are rescaled to "remain relevant"?

EDIT: I pose that hypothetical question because that's what I think about when they say that power progression is preserved. I know you feel that power progression is preserved. I think, in the bigger picture, it is not.
04/03/2017 05:21 PMPosted by Tresska
Now there is news that those boundaries were clearly crossed. How are we to feel about that?


I understand that there's the emotional argument involved, but I don't think players are willing to give the mechanic a chance--despite gear levels soaring out of control.

I don't think Blizzard intended characters to be deleting mobs so early in the cycle and are doing what they can to streamline the progression, and maybe finding alternatives to making alt grinds a little easier.
04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
Does it slow us down? Yes?
Then why ask me to prove it?

04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
Does it slow us down significantly?
That is a matter of opinion.

04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
Why are you so concerned about your time? It's a game. Sure we shouldn't be wasting hours for no reason, but there's a certain margain that's acceptable.
Not everyone likes the same things in a game. I for one don't want to spend more time killing mobs that I have for the last 4 months. I've done these WQ enough, they are boring now, it's just a grind to get to what I do have fun in the game with.

04/03/2017 05:12 PMPosted by Phumbles
I'd still like to see proof that there's any real time difference.
We don't have to provide you with proof you are willing to acccept.

I have tried to explain to Rager and now you, it's a game for fun. This change is not fun to us. That is all you need to understand.
04/03/2017 05:21 PMPosted by Tresska
I don't think it is unpopular at all. I think people are more worried about power progression with it. As long as we can keep gaining power and feel stronger. No matter what system we have. We will be fine with.


Not true. When mob scaling was first announced there was HUGE backlash. The entire reason we have that Ion quote about item level and scaling was to alleviate some of those concerns. Many became cool with it while others were just barely pacified enough to take a "wait and see" mentality. I personally have not liked scaling in any way shape or form.

Now, boundaries were set that in part diffused the issue and convinced many to go ahead and buy legion and give it a try. We played it in spite of scaling, some maybe even started to enjoy it. I personally have hated it. I especially hate the power roller coaster but that is a separate issue.

Now there is news that those boundaries were clearly crossed. How are we to feel about that?


Yet people get upset over systems they don't understand. I can agree with part of this point. How Blizzard handle it makes me wonder if they are trolling people, but at the same time. If you are wrong about a system, and feel that your way can't handle it. (face it they been trying for years to calm the power progression down.) They figure out a way to do it, but how people look at it is consider a bad thing. You have to bite the bullet for the good of the game.

As long as they scale the item level up to a point where you destory things like before. It is fine right? Like I said they picked a bad time to pull back the power from players because it does not feel good that you use to be able to easily defeat a mob, now it takes longer. (oh and that stupid elf city surmar or whatever. God I hate that zone design.)

However, people view of item level scaling is..no matter how powerful you get. The mobs can never fully be owned. At this point it is proven to not be true. As like i said 900+ people crit one shot things depending on spec. Healers start to kill just as fast as before the change. (So I been told.)
04/03/2017 05:26 PMPosted by Sepset
04/03/2017 05:21 PMPosted by Tresska
Now there is news that those boundaries were clearly crossed. How are we to feel about that?


I understand that there's the emotional argument involved, but I don't think players are willing to give the mechanic a chance--despite gear levels soaring out of control.

I don't think Blizzard intended characters to be deleting mobs so early in the cycle and are doing what they can to streamline the progression, and maybe finding alternatives to making alt grinds a little easier.


They should have just left well enough alone. We were getting along just fine without scaling of any sort.
04/03/2017 05:26 PMPosted by Sepset
04/03/2017 05:21 PMPosted by Tresska
Now there is news that those boundaries were clearly crossed. How are we to feel about that?


I understand that there's the emotional argument involved, but I don't think players are willing to give the mechanic a chance--despite gear levels soaring out of control.

I don't think Blizzard intended characters to be deleting mobs so early in the cycle and are doing what they can to streamline the progression, and maybe finding alternatives to making alt grinds a little easier.


I think there may be a lesson to be learned for Blizz for future expansion. I think they can plan gear better for sure. I also think there are other nobs to turn. I am all for correcting their mistake. But don't tax power in the thick of the expansion. Especially if your solution is one you clearly stated you would not do.
Not everyone likes the same things in a game. I for one don't want to spend more time killing mobs than I have for the last 4 months. I've done these WQ enough, they are boring now, it's just a grind to get to what I do have fun in the game with.


04/03/2017 05:27 PMPosted by Nayaga
have tried to explain to Rager and now you, it's a game for fun. This change is not fun to us. That is all you need to understand.


And all you need to understand is 1 shotting mobs isn't good for a game and shouldn't be standard practice.
04/03/2017 05:27 PMPosted by Aladrath
We were getting along just fine without scaling of any sort.


We weren't all 910+

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