PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

General Discussion
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04/03/2017 06:39 PMPosted by Dratharzul
04/03/2017 06:28 PMPosted by Phumbles
It means you can go tag other peoples mobs before they 1 shot them.


You're so hung up on '1 shot! 1 shot!' when in actual fact, nobody does this.


823's don't. It depends on the mob and spec attacking but it happens all the time. Now add 30+ ilvls to everyone.
Even if it's not 1 ability=1kill, things still die in less than a GCD or two, which is the parameter for the "degenerate extreme". Personally it takes me as long to apply my weapon enhancement and gain maelstrom as it does to actually kill the average mob.
04/03/2017 06:41 PMPosted by Vetokend
I wish they would have handled this in a similar fashion to how they handled heroics and mythics in 7.2. They made each of them harder, increased the rewards, but didn't scale them according to item level.

If they want to make old world quests still relevant, why not do the same thing there? Make them stronger, increase rewards, don't scale them to item level.

Wouldn't this make everybody happy?
And then you get the perk of non WQ mobs not scaling, I'd at least take that as a compromise. It's seriously no fun to try and head to some dungeons only to have to stop CONSTANTLY for some randomly scaled mob to take up so much of your time because they dazed you and you're in heal spec.
04/03/2017 06:41 PMPosted by Phumbles
823's don't.


No one doesn't.

04/03/2017 06:41 PMPosted by Phumbles
It depends on the mob and spec attacking but it happens all the time. Now add 30+ ilvls to everyone.


Nope.

04/03/2017 06:41 PMPosted by Phumbles
Even if it's not 1 ability=1kill, things still die in less than a GCD or two, which is the parameter for the "degenerate extreme". Personally it takes me as long to apply my weapon ehancement and gain maelstrom as it does to actually kill the average mob.


Bollocks.

Your whole post I could put on my garden bed. Total manure.
04/03/2017 06:41 PMPosted by Phumbles
823's don't.


No one doesn't.

04/03/2017 06:41 PMPosted by Phumbles
It depends on the mob and spec attacking but it happens all the time. Now add 30+ ilvls to everyone.


Nope.

Even if it's not 1 ability=1kill, things still die in less than a GCD or two, which is the parameter for the "degenerate extreme". Personally it takes me as long to apply my weapon ehancement and gain maelstrom as it does to actually kill the average mob.


Bollocks.

Your whole post I could put on my garden bed. Total manure.


Sure thing bud. Blizzard said it themselves, but everyone knows they're just evil liars.

You think this is true..
04/03/2017 06:12 PMPosted by Dratharzul
Why should I get to 850 to only be weaker (or rather, take longer to kill mobs)?

and you're ilvl 823, but sure, you definitely know what's going on.
04/03/2017 06:53 PMPosted by Dratharzul
Bollocks.

Your whole post I could put on my garden bed. Total manure.


Um they made a video proving they are right.
04/03/2017 06:41 PMPosted by Phumbles
04/03/2017 06:39 PMPosted by Dratharzul
...

You're so hung up on '1 shot! 1 shot!' when in actual fact, nobody does this.


823's don't. It depends on the mob and spec attacking but it happens all the time. Now add 30+ ilvls to everyone.
Even if it's not 1 ability=1kill, things still die in less than a GCD or two, which is the parameter for the "degenerate extreme". Personally it takes me as long to apply my weapon enhancement and gain maelstrom as it does to actually kill the average mob.

Of course on my Frost Death Knight I can still one shot the average mob every 5 minutes. Are they going to adjust the scaling so that mobs have enough health to survive my 5min CD one shot? Just to make sure I'm not being a degenerate and using it to kill an entire WQ in one pull and one ability?
04/03/2017 04:50 PMPosted by Ràger
It is the SAME thing, the power scale got tipped back but we will get to the point we are at before this change happen.

So being upset about the very design of a MMO is crazy. We do this with every expansion, but this is the first time we had to do it in the middle of one. I question Blizzard timing of this change, but lets not pretend like we don't do this gear grind to be able to easily handle the mobs. We do.

That is a fact.


You have got to be kidding me. This is the third time I have seen you bring up this bunk, and it will be the third time I have had to tell you that this is simply false. By your own standards, that would make you a liar.

Higher level content at the start of a new expansion is not the same as item level scaling. They are two different things. Expansions reset the power ceiling by providing new content to preserve the sense of progression this game relies on. Item level scaling curtails the speed at which people are moving through present content. That is its explicit purpose. Go have Phumbles or Roxette get you a Blizzard quote if you don't believe that.

One is a reset button on what constitutes end game. The other is an attempt to extend encounter duration.

Please trot this argument out a fourth time. Please, I beg you, then we'll know for damn sure who does or does not understand something. No, no, better yet, I'll just start dismissing you as a liar, something you're perfectly content to do yourself.
Sadly folks, I lost faith that *ANY* amount of feedback will change their mind

Lets look at other widely hated things

CRZ being one of them

Flight another

Once Devs think they "know best" with their bad decisions, they stick with them, no matter how many players it costs them
04/03/2017 04:10 PMPosted by Phumbles
Demanding apologies.


Yes, you're right. I am insisting on an apology. And I'll layout why. (Sit back cause this is longer than I usually like to go with posts.)

When ilvl Scaling was put on the PTR without comment I can forgive that. It's the PTR after all. If there's a place to test a large scale change to the game "organically" the PTR is definitely it. Then Ornyx claimed noone posted about it on the PTR forum. That links have been posted to show people commented on things being "off" and not feeling as powerful shows that wasn't the case. But aside from that how does someone comment on a specific change when the change isn't announced. "We secretly replaced their usual brand with Brand X. Let's see if they notice." Misrepresentation. #1.

In that same post it was also stated the change had been on the PTR since January. However in Febrary Lore stated in clear, unmistakable terms that it is against Blizzard's code to make stealth changes to the game. Lie. #2. (I'll let others decide which of the two are the liars.)

Relatedly they deliberately left the ilvl Scaling off the PTR notes. Because "well no one said anything so we just assumed it was all good" and why bother telling the playerbase a change has been made they know the players will dislike if they don't have to. Lie of Omission. #3

Finally comes the 7.2 and Live with no mention of the change on the notes. Lie of Omission. #4.

And here is where Blizzard starts muddying their story. Watcher at first says they deliberately didn't mention it in the notes because they wanted an "organic" response but they didn't expect to fool millions of players. However he also says the change should have been "transparent" "subtle" i.e. not noticeable. In plain terms implemented in such a way to fool millions of players. Ornyx in a different post states they should have put the change in the notes on the PTR so it could have been properly tested. This is in direct contradiction to what Watcher said. If you're going to try and deceive people stick to the story. Once you start changing the story the lie becomes obvious. Lie of the Spin. #5.

That's five instances of Blizzard in one form or another trying to deceive the playerbase. Five instances that bring into question the trustworthiness of Blizzard. Five instances that bring into question the trustworthiness of the CMs. Five instances that beg the question "Why should we trust anything Blizzard says again"?

So yes, I'm insisting on an apology and hopefully a clear statement never to try and pull another stunt like this again where they make a large scale change to the game and say nothing. I was taught that while one may forgive a lie if you want to earn back trust you begin with a sincere apology. So far Blizzard has not only not apologized but their combined posts display an hint of arrogance that they see nothing they've done as wrong or in need of apologizing for.
04/03/2017 07:07 PMPosted by Piousheretic
You have got to be kidding me. This is the third time I have seen you bring up this bunk, and it will be the third time I have had to tell you that this is simply false. By your own standards, that would make you a liar.

Higher level content at the start of a new expansion is not the same as item level scaling. They are two different things. Expansions reset the power ceiling by providing new content to preserve the sense of progression this game relies on. Item level scaling curtails the speed at which people are moving through present content. That is its explicit purpose. Go have Phumbles or Roxette get you a Blizzard quote if you don't believe that.

One is a reset button on what constitutes end game. The other is an attempt to extend encounter duration.

Please trot this argument out a fourth time. Please, I beg you, then we'll know for damn sure who does or does not understand something. No, no, better yet, I'll just start dismissing you as a liar, something you're perfectly content to do yourself.


This is ONLY half true.

You reach a point with your item level that you gain the power you had before. This just slows down that progression. Guess what? Like I said each expansion we go into, we also have to do the same gear grind to reach a power point where we can easily handle mobs. All this change did was to even out the power progression to get to that point.

So yes I am 100 percent correct. We do this grind each time to get to a point where we can easily handle the mobs again. This time it happen in the middle of a expansion instead of a start of one.

You would have a point if Item level scaling did not let you gain the super strong power you once had. YOU get that power, but it is at a much higher item level it is a slower pace than before it evens the progression out.
04/03/2017 06:54 PMPosted by Phumbles
and you're ilvl 823, but sure, you definitely know what's going on.


This is how good (bad) your reading is. I already told you there is no point me getting a better ilvl score only to hit mobs for longer. This is the WHOLE reason why we're here. I stopped bothering when I saw this thread. Sorry that your OCD can't stand to see a number below 850.

Buy a pair of glasses.
04/03/2017 06:57 PMPosted by Ràger
Um they made a video proving they are right.


Skewed video.
04/03/2017 07:13 PMPosted by Ràger
So yes I am 100 percent correct. We do this grind each time to get to a point where we can easily handle the mobs again. This time it happen in the middle of a expansion instead of a start of one.


I'm afraid this is apples to oranges. In every other expansion, getting new gear didn't make enemies get stronger. Even if gaining gear is still beneficial in the new system, it's not as much as it used to be. Many of us don't see why this is necessary. Other better (and less lazy) solutions exist.
04/03/2017 01:46 PMPosted by Nobuo
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

Did they go back on their change to mob's damage scaling to ilvl?

I seriously hope this is not the case. Because that would be realllllllllllllll bad.

The reason I ask is it feels like everything on the Broken Shore hits twice as hard today. I just got my !#%$ pushed in by a couple of murlocs.

The hell is going on?

Man, I haven't gotten in there today. Don't tell me. ugh.
04/03/2017 07:15 PMPosted by Dratharzul
04/03/2017 06:54 PMPosted by Phumbles
and you're ilvl 823, but sure, you definitely know what's going on.


This is how good (bad) your reading is. I already told you there is no point me getting a better ilvl score only to hit mobs for longer. This is the WHOLE reason why we're here. I stopped bothering when I saw this thread. Sorry that your OCD can't stand to see a number below 850.

Buy a pair of glasses.


So you don't want to do progression content?
04/03/2017 07:21 PMPosted by Vetokend
04/03/2017 07:13 PMPosted by Ràger
So yes I am 100 percent correct. We do this grind each time to get to a point where we can easily handle the mobs again. This time it happen in the middle of a expansion instead of a start of one.


I'm afraid this is apples to oranges. In every other expansion, getting new gear didn't make enemies get stronger. Even if gaining gear is still beneficial in the new system, it's not as much as it used to be. Many of us don't see why this is necessary. Other better (and less lazy) solutions exist.


Again that is not the point. They get stronger but so do you. The power progression ends up in the same place, but at a steady pace instead of a sky rocket jump that has no balance.

This way Blizzard can balance new content moving forward around a wide range of item levels instead of forcing gear short cuts just to do current content.
04/03/2017 06:04 PMPosted by Dratharzul
04/03/2017 05:59 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
right now, leveling 1-80 is easy but boring.


That's because everyone's done it multiple times. If you bring scaling to 1-80 and every mob takes longer to kill, you force people into dungeons. No one is literally going to bother


i wanna bring 1-110 zone scaling everywhere. i mean, you lose the ability to Steamroll old content, but rewards from old content would be scaled to your level, itemized to the expansion, and have a chance to titanforge or drop artifact power boosting items.

as well as item scaling forcing you to actually learn your class and also learn to do vital things for your role. instead of steamrolling dungeons with your heirlooms. heirlooms would still not require repairs and would still scale to a point or boost XP gain. they just wouldn't let you steamroll dungeons anymore.

ilvl scaling in low level zones, brings back group quests, which brings people to actually work together and socialize. people being forced to help each other, breathes life into the social aspect. actually having to think, makes the game more engaging.
04/03/2017 07:23 PMPosted by Sepset
So you don't want to do progression content?


Not right now, no.
04/03/2017 07:13 PMPosted by Ràger
This is ONLY half true.


No, it's fully true, you just think you can redefine reality to whatever you proclaim it is. You are neither logically consistent or intellectually honest. Thanks for clarifying.

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