PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

General Discussion
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04/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Drunksprite
I really dont see this as a problem... I don't like when current content gets trivial, I get bored. That's when I stop playing.

I just don't understand some people... You want content to last, so you have something to do, but when they do just that, you don't want it?


I don't want content to last long, I want new content.. that's why I paid a monthly subscription. I want new content that kicks my face in, so I can power up to beat that new content, and get some fresh new content to take its place.
04/03/2017 10:16 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
level/gear scaling is how relevant content stays relevant without punishing the freshly dinged characters,


Not sure if I agree. As Timeless nor the Jungle were for fresh end game levels. You still needed to do some work. If you walked in with quest blues and greens-- you got ate while solo. The mobs were designed for people that had at least a min of Heroic dungeon gear, transitioning players from LFR into Normal raiding or higher.
I am entirely against mobs scaling with your item level. I trudged through when it was hard when I had no gear. I get geared up and things become easier and less frustrating only to have the fruits of my labor stripped.
in any living world, the nonplayer characters should grow and progress in some manner. much akin to the players, which keeps all content relevant. NPCs have lives and challenges as well. i find level/gear scaling to be realistic because NPCs also grow, mature, progress and evolve. NPCs who remain static are NPCs who fail to keep interest. sure, the story might be focused on the player characters, but the non player characters would also be growing, progressing and evolving.

if you look at most fantasy stories where the hero leaves their home town for a long while, the people in their home town had plenty of time to grow, mature and evolve. meaning the butcher who used to sell your meat might now be a highly experienced warrior whom could surprise even yourself.
04/03/2017 10:16 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
level/gear scaling is how relevant content stays relevant without punishing the freshly dinged characters,


Not sure if I agree. As Timeless nor the Jungle were for fresh end game levels. You still needed to do some work. If you walked in with quest blues and greens-- you got ate. The mods were designed for people that had at least a min of Heroic dungeon gear, transitioning players from LFR into Normal raiding or higher.


Yes.. both the Timeless Isle and Tanaan Jungle were largely motivating to me, because I had to earn the right to be there. Glad you said that. If everybody can do the same content, sure doesn't give much privilege to those who really work at it.
04/03/2017 10:16 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
level/gear scaling is how relevant content stays relevant without punishing the freshly dinged characters,


Not sure if I agree. As Timeless nor the Jungle were for fresh end game levels. You still needed to do some work. If you walked in with quest blues and greens-- you got ate. The mods were designed for people that had at least a min of Heroic dungeon gear, transitioning players from LFR into Normal raiding or higher.


Ya, but that mean that players had short cuts to getting gear up. With item level scaling in the future. I can see the need for catch up gear to be gone.
04/03/2017 10:25 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
i find level/gear scaling to be realistic because NPCs also grow, mature, progress and evolve


Yes so naturally a wolf is better than my artefact, legendary armor and high end gear combined...lol.

Ludicrous.
04/03/2017 10:20 PMPosted by Vetokend
04/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Drunksprite
I really dont see this as a problem... I don't like when current content gets trivial, I get bored. That's when I stop playing.

I just don't understand some people... You want content to last, so you have something to do, but when they do just that, you don't want it?


I don't want content to last long, I want new content.. that's why I paid a monthly subscription. I want new content that kicks my face in, so I can power up to beat that new content, and get some fresh new content to take its place.


I want new content and the old content to feel like it still exists.

04/03/2017 10:27 PMPosted by Dratharzul
04/03/2017 10:25 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
i find level/gear scaling to be realistic because NPCs also grow, mature, progress and evolve


Yes so naturally a wolf is better than my artefact, legendary armor and high end gear combined...lol.

Ludicrous.


If you call dying in 3 GCDs instead of 2 "better".
04/03/2017 10:16 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
04/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Drunksprite
I really dont see this as a problem... I don't like when current content gets trivial, I get bored. That's when I stop playing.

I just don't understand some people... You want content to last, so you have something to do, but when they do just that, you don't want it?


level/gear scaling is how relevant content stays relevant without punishing the freshly dinged characters,


Interesting way of looking at it. I honestly never saw being weak as a punishment for the newly dinged. I saw being strong as a benefit for the people who strived to improve themselves. Why else chase the carrot?
04/03/2017 10:25 PMPosted by Vetokend
Yes.. both the Timeless Isle and Tanaan Jungle were largely motivating to me, because I had to earn the right to be there. Glad you said that. If everybody can do the same content, sure doesn't give much privilege to those who really work at it.


When I first stepped into either area, I was largely under geared and had to have help through grouping. Again, all this scaling does, is remove the need for grouping, it doesn't help it. Whats the point of LFG if you have no reason to use it?
8 sec ago

04/03/2017 10:16 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
04/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Drunksprite
I really dont see this as a problem... I don't like when current content gets trivial, I get bored. That's when I stop playing.

I just don't understand some people... You want content to last, so you have something to do, but when they do just that, you don't want it?

level/gear scaling is how relevant content stays relevant without punishing the freshly dinged characters,

Interesting way of looking at it. I honestly never saw being weak as a punishment for the newly dinged. I saw being strong as a benefit for the people who strived to improve themselves. Why else chase the carrot?


A fresh ding doesn't say 'you are prepared' It says, you're ready to start preparing for end game content. Heroic dungeons, LFR, raiding-- that's where the end game progression comes from in the PvE aspect.
Wolfs better than my Silver Hand and trillions ap combined. Seems legit.

PS: Still waiting for a new Blue response. Reset coming tomorrow...
I want new content and the old content to feel like it still exists.


I go back to old expansions all the time to collect achievements, solo raids, etc. The old content isn't gone, it's just way easier because we've surpassed it. I love that feeling.
04/03/2017 10:29 PMPosted by Phumbles
If you call dying in 3 GCDs instead of 2 "better".


Who mentioned dying? This is what I mean by not reading.
04/03/2017 10:27 PMPosted by Dratharzul
04/03/2017 10:25 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
i find level/gear scaling to be realistic because NPCs also grow, mature, progress and evolve


Yes so naturally a wolf is better than my artefact, legendary armor and high end gear combined...lol.

Ludicrous.


just because an item is legendary doesn't mean it is better. as an example, look at an authentic Japanese Nihonto crafted by hand. they are an extremely pretty and extremely legendary sword worth a small fortune, but they are still a sword at their core.

the realistic concept of wolves evolving over the course of the stories fails to account for fantastic elements like magical artifact weapons and legendary armor, and if those things technically did exist. there would likely be some old wolves whom knew how to read and fight people whom use them.

when a piece of powerful technology is discovered, every creature adapts thier tactics to compensate for it. meaning, mass produced Ashbringers still have a struggle against a wolf whom is familiar with the original.
04/03/2017 10:32 PMPosted by Vetokend
I go back to old expansions all the time to collect achievements, solo raids, etc. The old content isn't gone, it's just way easier because we've surpassed it. I love that feeling.


I kinda feel like if people want old content to feel 'fresh', they should lvl a new toon from 1-110. The idea of begin forced to redo content I've already completed seems-- Daunting.
04/03/2017 09:46 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
but there should be some rewards for actually working with a group that are superior to what you earn through solo play.


At the risk of adding grist to the mill here, (its ok GD this one is on ignore and has been since page 45 or so, so I wont continue to be obliged to scroll past the spewage (gotta love my little portmanteau there)) I can see where the amount of rewards should be increased for group play vs solo but I cannot see where OPEN WORLD group play should get better quality rewards than solo play. In fact if anything OPEN WORLD group play rewards should be nerfed compared to solo play because the solo player may not be able to tank or burst or heal or have a pet that can tank or heal so he is gimped compared to the group which likely has all of those which makes them much more efficient in terms of character/globals (think man/hours) per kill. So in essence a solo player is a 'better' player in that he can down mobs in the open world that others feel they must have a group to do.
04/03/2017 08:22 PMPosted by Nui
04/03/2017 08:18 PMPosted by Ràger
So just have a npc that makes it where you don't do the scaling, while others do and add world quest to old world.

We can have the best of both worlds.


This is key. This is very important. I think if item level scaling was OPTIONAL the same way turning off experience gain for leveling toons is OPTIONAL, this would not be a problem. I personally would not have a problem with item level scaling at all if it was an option for those who want it.

As it stands, they implemented it for all, like it or not. If there hadn't been an outcry it would have stayed that way.


They won't put in a toggle, the feature is obviously hugely unpopular and virtually everyone would turn it off. Look at how flying is being handled, when people choose to use an optional feature in that blizzard doesn't like it simply gets removed.
04/03/2017 08:20 PMPosted by Phumbles
From what I can see, scaling adds 1 GCD extra. Essentially doing what they said it's for, preventing instagibs.
So instead of one shotting it you can now two shot it...oh wait faction tagging says otherwise.

The massive upsurge in power comes because of the four levels of raid content and the three levels of dungeon content plus warforging and titanforging on top. Questing and it's rewards would happen regardless and are base line so that doesn't contribute to the "issue" Blizzard were trying to fix. Yet it is the mobs needed for questing which is where they sought to find the solution, not where the problem is created.

I said before they should have made heroic raids, heroic not add mythic as well. They too could, potentially (not that I'm advocating it), get rid of LFR which would mean that's two levels of item scaling gone, two jumps no longer needed.
Same with Mythic+ dungeons why not make heroic ones heroic that people dread - Halls of Reflection anyone? (I can't describe how good it feels to go back there and insta-gib everything but I still get that horrible sick feeling as I zone in.)

I suspect the reason they didn't is because they wouldn't be able to churn things out fast enough and thus people would tear through what they did produce and then have nothing to do. Yet if what they did churn out was fun and at the right level for the right amount of players - they know their metrics and just how much of the population does x, y and z - people would continue to play and strive towards the next shiny which caught their eye. I would imagine, perhaps wrongly, it's easier and quicker to take the same raid/dungeon and tweak numbers for difficulty, add a few more obstacles in here and there than it is to create a whole new one from scratch.

I do not understand why at level 110 they bring this in when they have heirlooms, they encourage you even, to insta-gib everything on your way to max level. Anyone remember the carnage which was starter areas when they introduced CRZ and you couldn't tag anything? The complaints then from brand new customers and old alike were met with "they will respawn...eventually"
04/03/2017 10:37 PMPosted by Rodrick
At the risk of adding grist to the mill here, (its ok GD this one is on ignore and has been since page 45 or so, so I wont continue to be obliged to scroll past the spewage (gotta love my little portmanteau there)) I can see where the amount of rewards should be increased for group play vs solo but I cannot see where OPEN WORLD group play should get better quality rewards than solo play. In fact if anything OPEN WORLD group play rewards should be nerfed compared to solo play because the solo player may not be able to tank or burst or heal or have a pet that can tank or heal so he is gimped compared to the group which likely has all of those which makes them much more efficient in terms of character/globals (think man/hours) per kill. So in essence a solo player is a 'better' player in that he can down mobs in the open world that others feel they must have a group to do.


Really, there's no reason to group at this point. If its true and ilvl scaling makes mobs stronger, players with low ilvl's might do better solo and may not have to worry about grouping. At least that's where I've seen several people I know going. They have, for the most part, except for rares-- done well with low ilvl and soloing the content.

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