PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

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04/04/2017 12:48 AMPosted by Ràger
I been using facts


Opinions are not facts, facts are something you can prove. You cannot prove or disprove how great "ilvl scaling can be for the game." The major crux of your arguments have been "Don you see how great it COULD be?" And haven't you seen how it already messed up? Blizz admitted they messed up by having damage scaling and way too much health. Now some people are looking at what some of the percentages of scaling might be currently and asking why they even bothered.
04/04/2017 12:22 AMPosted by Dratharzul
04/04/2017 12:10 AMPosted by Ràger
For people who don't want that, they can just opt out of it by a npc.


They will never add a toggle.


/sigh.

Hate to say this but they have something similar, at the entrance to the Blasted Lands, from the Swamp of Sorrows. When you've leveled high enough, you can interact with the Bronze Dragon NPC who, upon request, changes the BL zone from 'current'(WoD level yuck) to 'Classic'(yay) or even back again if you so wish.
And she does it for free(not hiring HER anytime soon, I tells ya!).
04/03/2017 09:23 PMPosted by Dinrry
Guys, the trolls somehow got off my ignore list for the second time today.


So it's not just me on this one.
04/04/2017 12:56 AMPosted by Anareiel
Hate to say this but they have something similar, at the entrance to the Blasted Lands, from the Swamp of Sorrows. When you've leveled high enough, you can interact with the Bronze Dragon NPC who, upon request, changes the BL zone from 'current'(WoD level yuck) to 'Classic'(yay) or even back again if you so wish.
And she does it for free(not hiring HER anytime soon, I tells ya!).


Yeah, but a toggle for every zone that's pre-Legion? I can't see Blizz doing that. And it was done for Seasonal World Events. Gotta get those Candy buckets.
04/04/2017 12:56 AMPosted by Anareiel
04/04/2017 12:22 AMPosted by Dratharzul
...

They will never add a toggle.


/sigh.

Hate to say this but they have something similar, at the entrance to the Blasted Lands, from the Swamp of Sorrows. When you've leveled high enough, you can interact with the Bronze Dragon NPC who, upon request, changes the BL zone from 'current'(WoD level yuck) to 'Classic'(yay) or even back again if you so wish.
And she does it for free(not hiring HER anytime soon, I tells ya!).


That's for the state of the zone. Dunno if they have one for the zone that changed in Pandaria or not. Also note that's not for a system that effects scaling of mobs, just the state of a single zone. Having an NPC for scaled/not-scaled would mean you essentially would have 2 different instances of the entire game for each server. I don't think that would ever be something they'd the effort and money on setting up. For a scant few zones sure, not for the entire world of Warcraft.
04/04/2017 12:55 AMPosted by Elnira
04/04/2017 12:48 AMPosted by Ràger
I been using facts


Opinions are not facts, facts are something you can prove. You cannot prove or disprove how great "ilvl scaling can be for the game." The major crux of your arguments have been "Don you see how great it COULD be?" And haven't you seen how it already messed up? Blizz admitted they messed up by having damage scaling and way too much health. Now some people are looking at what some of the percentages of scaling might be currently and asking why they even bothered.


You are wrong on this. I never said my opinion was fact. I said that I been using FACTS to counter the false infomation that some of you seem to spread about the system making you weaker.

I use logic to explain why the system is good, and how Blizzard can make it work. I also use logic to explain why we are doing the same item grind as we always do.

Sorry if some of you can't accept it.
04/04/2017 01:01 AMPosted by Elnira
That's for the state of the zone. Dunno if they have one for the zone that changed in Pandaria or not. Also note that's not for a system that effects scaling of mobs, just the state of a single zone. Having an NPC for scaled/not-scaled would mean you essentially would have 2 different instances of the entire game for each server. I don't think that would ever be something they'd the effort and money on setting up. For a scant few zones sure, not for the entire world of Warcraft.


No, there's not one for that area. Since there was no reason to add one. Rares, everything else are still accessible and vendors were simply moved.

But it doesn't stop the scaling from stopping at Legion should it push forward beyond Legion. And if anything, would be an easy fix for it to continue even after Legion's dead and we've moved on to the new x-pack. That I do see...
04/04/2017 12:55 AMPosted by Elnira
...

Opinions are not facts, facts are something you can prove. You cannot prove or disprove how great "ilvl scaling can be for the game." The major crux of your arguments have been "Don you see how great it COULD be?" And haven't you seen how it already messed up? Blizz admitted they messed up by having damage scaling and way too much health. Now some people are looking at what some of the percentages of scaling might be currently and asking why they even bothered.


My opinion was fact. I said that I been using MY FEELINGS to counter anyone saying anything I don't like that some of you seem to spread about the system that they don't like for various reasons.

I use MY OPINION IS RIGHT why the system is good, and how Blizzard can make it work. I also use feels to explain why we are doing the same item grind as we always do.

Sorry if some of you can't accept it.


FIXED
04/04/2017 12:58 AMPosted by Teiah
04/04/2017 12:56 AMPosted by Anareiel
Hate to say this but they have something similar, at the entrance to the Blasted Lands, from the Swamp of Sorrows. When you've leveled high enough, you can interact with the Bronze Dragon NPC who, upon request, changes the BL zone from 'current'(WoD level yuck) to 'Classic'(yay) or even back again if you so wish.
And she does it for free(not hiring HER anytime soon, I tells ya!).


Yeah, but a toggle for every zone that's pre-Legion? I can't see Blizz doing that. And it was done for Seasonal World Events. Gotta get those Candy buckets.


Good point, and thank you for perspective.
For one zone, yes.

To implement this game-wide? Forget it.
04/04/2017 01:03 AMPosted by Ràger
04/04/2017 12:55 AMPosted by Elnira
...

Opinions are not facts, facts are something you can prove. You cannot prove or disprove how great "ilvl scaling can be for the game." The major crux of your arguments have been "Don you see how great it COULD be?" And haven't you seen how it already messed up? Blizz admitted they messed up by having damage scaling and way too much health. Now some people are looking at what some of the percentages of scaling might be currently and asking why they even bothered.


You are wrong on this. I never said my opinion was fact. I said that I been using FACTS to counter the false infomation that some of you seem to spread about the system making you weaker.

I use logic to explain why the system is good, and how Blizzard can make it work. I also use logic to explain why we are doing the same item grind as we always do.

Sorry if some of you can't accept it.


The fact is is has made me weaker. What could be killed in 10 sec prior to patch, now takes say 12-14 secs. Even as I gear up, what will take 4-5 secs, will take 7-8 secs. When quite a few WQs are kill x number of mobs etc, the time will add up and make the task tedious, not more challenging. ANd this is not including doing WQs on alts.
04/04/2017 12:48 AMPosted by Ràger
Sorry but I been using facts and logic all this time. I accept some of you hate it, but if spread false infomation about how the system works, I will call you out on it. It is just that simple.


Wrong, I have pointed to at least one instance where your logic was faulty, and you just decided, "nah, it isn't." That isn't logic. Based on the structure of your arguments, you don't even know what the word means.

And in no way have I spread any misinformation on this topic. You can check that guff at the door. I'll thank you to not cast such aspersion's my direction. My argument to date has not only been consistent, but very simple:

1.) If a system like this is imperceptible in its effects, it can just as easily be removed to no detriment.

2.) Player power is a result of itemization, an issue that makes more sense to tackle.

3.) Blizzard didn't just "change their minds". They said they weren't interested in a system, then set it forth without saying anything to their players, who had to discover it for themselves. And indeed, the initial implementation was so mishandled that it had to be scaled back dramatically.

4.) There is no reason to believe scaling will stay with current content. Since Blizzard likes to implement systems they claim not to favor on a lark, and without telling anyone, the fear that this will show up to a greater effect and/or in other area's is not unfounded.

5.) Absolutely none of the pro crowd, who have continuously used the lame-duck argument that "they like a challenge" has, to my reckoning, acknowledged what I and others have suggested - that you level lock yourself, use lesser gear, or do whatever. If you want a challenge, gimp yourself. Lots of people do it in lots of games. In fact, various iterations are often called "Iron Man Challenges". But you won't do that. You won't even entertain doing that.

6.) To tack on to 5: If Blizzard implements scaling, those against have no choice but to pay the toll. If they don't, those for the proposition still have options open to them.

None of this is lying or whining and this has been my position from post one in the other thread. I have no aversion to facts whatsoever. What I do take umbrage with, are people that with a distorted sense of the problem and broken logic telling me how far in error I am.
04/04/2017 01:03 AMPosted by Ràger
04/04/2017 12:55 AMPosted by Elnira
...

Opinions are not facts, facts are something you can prove. You cannot prove or disprove how great "ilvl scaling can be for the game." The major crux of your arguments have been "Don you see how great it COULD be?" And haven't you seen how it already messed up? Blizz admitted they messed up by having damage scaling and way too much health. Now some people are looking at what some of the percentages of scaling might be currently and asking why they even bothered.


You are wrong on this. I never said my opinion was fact. I said that I been using FACTS to counter the false infomation that some of you seem to spread about the system making you weaker.

I use logic to explain why the system is good, and how Blizzard can make it work. I also use logic to explain why we are doing the same item grind as we always do.

Sorry if some of you can't accept it.


Well if you like feeling so powerless then they should implement a toggle on the system for people like you who enjoy character regression.
04/04/2017 01:14 AMPosted by Saelara
Well if you like feeling so powerless then they should implement a toggle on the system for people like you who enjoy character regression.

...Sorry but balance>all.
04/04/2017 01:14 AMPosted by Saelara
character regression


That might be interesting... As a stand alone realm... Copy your chars in, get hugely buffed but if you dienits permanent
04/04/2017 01:14 AMPosted by Saelara
04/04/2017 01:03 AMPosted by Ràger
...

You are wrong on this. I never said my opinion was fact. I said that I been using FACTS to counter the false infomation that some of you seem to spread about the system making you weaker.

I use logic to explain why the system is good, and how Blizzard can make it work. I also use logic to explain why we are doing the same item grind as we always do.

Sorry if some of you can't accept it.


Well if you like feeling so powerless then they should implement a toggle on the system for people like you who enjoy character regression.


Wait wait...

He likes feeling powerless?

I think I do remember him...
04/04/2017 01:19 AMPosted by Ràger
04/04/2017 01:14 AMPosted by Saelara
Well if you like feeling so powerless then they should implement a toggle on the system for people like you who enjoy character regression.

...Sorry but balance>all.


Balance is what should exist between different classes at the same gear level, not what should exist between a fresh max level in greens and a character that has spent months to get fully mythic geared.
04/04/2017 01:20 AMPosted by Aliantonn
04/04/2017 01:14 AMPosted by Saelara
character regression


That might be interesting... As a stand alone realm... Copy your chars in, get hugely buffed but if you dienits permanent


...like the 'Ironman' versions of characters in Diablo 2?

Hmmm....

Maybe have it ingame, as a part of the character creation page? ''Click the following: Regular...or...IRONMAN''.

Its a thought.
04/04/2017 12:44 AMPosted by Phumbles
You're right, it is fantasy. And you can't determine for me how mobs are in my fantasy.


Nor us. The same wolf shouldn't be doing the same thing after getting legendary gear, upgraded artefact, higher level gear. That's incorrect, even for a fantasy.
04/04/2017 01:03 AMPosted by Ràger
Sorry if some of you can't accept it.


When are you going to? Exactly, shoosh time now.
04/04/2017 12:56 AMPosted by Anareiel
/sigh.

Hate to say this but they have something similar, at the entrance to the Blasted Lands, from the Swamp of Sorrows. When you've leveled high enough, you can interact with the Bronze Dragon NPC who, upon request, changes the BL zone from 'current'(WoD level yuck) to 'Classic'(yay) or even back again if you so wish.
And she does it for free(not hiring HER anytime soon, I tells ya!).


That's because they used a whole zone which was previously a different level zone as a segue for an expansion intro. Can you see them adding a toggle for all zones? Also, none of those scaled. They are separate mobs too and not even the same named mobs.

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