PSA: Creatures now scale with item level #2

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04/04/2017 07:01 AMPosted by Usdachoice
04/04/2017 06:39 AMPosted by Roxette
In order to be smarter, I am just telling you, you would need to be in the genius range.


So someone in the "genius range" spends their time posting on a video game forum (to the tune 30400 posts) while arguing with people they deem as insignificant?

This thread has turned to comedic gold.


I like Rox's posts; their lack of cohesiveness makes me laugh and provides a momentary distraction to how frustrated I am at Blizzard and their handling of yet another mismanaged issue.
04/04/2017 07:09 AMPosted by Trallara
04/04/2017 07:06 AMPosted by Lucyfaithful
the new island is harder only because of scaling. not because blizzard actually put new mobs who hit harder and have more hp. on the ptr you could see it. but most people didnt realize it was because of scaling.


What.

Scaling is affected by the base difficulty you give mobs. Mobs on broken shore are harder than random mob in Highmountain. And that's before we go into scaling not affecting how hard mobs hit, only health(...currently).

Your statement isn't correct.


I really dont care if you believe scaling makes only a slight difference at all. over the last 4 days dozens of people have made the same claim. blizzard is dead wrong about scaling it should be removed today. not after half the people who play now quit over it being added into progression raids and low level zones in the next expansion.

read my lips scaling is the worst thing blizzard has done in years
If not ilvl scaling, someone needs to take a serious look at this game's systems and do an overhaul.

Example: In WotLK's first cycle, the ilvl growth between fresh 80 dungeon gear (200) and the best available in the patch (213) was a growth of 6%. Not saying with stat allocation that the power growth was only 6%, but just a for instance. With Legion, we have a range of ilvl 800 as a base to roughly 900+... an inflation of 12%+ if the stats were a linear growth, which they aren't... the budget is worse than that.

Even with scaling, geared 110s are melting mobs. That's without any ToS gear... and we're getting a 7.3 as well... what's that going to look like? Fire and Brimstone clearing an entire area with 1 cast? Just running through an area with Demonwrath on while everything dies without even having to click it? In previous expansions, I've felt strong by the end of the xpac... but I've never felt this powerful by the end of the first patch cycle.

It's going to turn into the same garbage that is leveling - just run around, throw dots on everything and wait for it to die at your feet while it all does 0 damage to you.
04/03/2017 05:20 PMPosted by Ràger
04/03/2017 05:18 PMPosted by Vetokend
Yeah, you're in agreement with most of the people in this thread. This is more or less exactly how I feel as well. The last thing this game needs to do is make people less excited about getting gear. Chasing gear, after all, is a pretty large part of the game design and overall player goal.


Yet again, at higher item levels things become easier and you gain back the power you once had. You did this grind at the start of the expansion. Why is it a problem now? This "problem" only happen because the new system came into place. Going forward you won't have this problem.


You JUST DO NOT GET IT! If the ilvl FLOOR is ilvl 850, then why should a ilvl 835 player even try to go farm at the portals, or do WQ's on the Shore? They are getting owned like crazy JUST LIKE me at ilvl 880 because of the scaling and the insane spawn rate of mobs at WQ,s, the portals, the whole Shore.

At ilvl 880 we should be doing MUCH easier there. It also seems to me that ALL the WQ,s even on the Broken Isles seem to be a bit higher, i really hope not because that puts even MORE undue burden on ilvl 110 fresh players. With the amount of insane stuff you need to do right when you hit 110, players are already overwhelmed, do you think SCALING is going to keep them around? When i seen what 110 was like i quit playing my druid after 3 days. I HATED it.

So the scaling must go, if you do not see this then no one can open your eyes to it by now. We SHOULD "feel", or "Be" STRONGER at higher than ilvl 850 on broken shore no matter what if we are 870 and above period. They said so in PLAIN ENGLISH that scaling would never happen because it goes against the whole purpose of how a MMO is designed. They said they would NEVER add scaling, and that is why they release CONTENT.

What part are you NOT understanding. The scaling should be scrapped and that is that. They made the promise to us, they should KEEP IT!

Here i will refresh your memory ONE MORE TIME.

Players on the WoW Forums and Reddit have noticed that mobs appear to be scaling up based on player item level in 7.2.

If this is intended, it would be a change of opinion from what was stated in the Legion Developer Q&A from September 2016:

"
Q: Do World Quests scale with item level, or will they just become trivially easier for greater rewards?

A: Once you're max level, the world isn't scaling with your gear. There would be problems if we tried to do that - what do you do with a fresh 110 and a raid-geared 110 fighting the same mob in the same place? We could some kind of scaling I guess, like leveling, to normalize it? But I think that would go too far in undermining the core sense of power progression that is part of an MMO. The stuff that was challenging for you in Suramar, that was challenging when you first hit 110 in greens...when you come back in Mythic dungeon gear, you should crush them a bit. The intent is that the content is is something you outgear, outpower eventually.

That said, that's why we add new content."

There!
04/04/2017 07:07 AMPosted by Trallara
You realize what they were saying is how smart they were right? So for you to be smarter you'd have to be a genius...


Presuming the following:

a - they were being truthful (I seriously doubt)
b - they are smart, but I'm smarter
c - they were lying and I'm smarter anyway

04/04/2017 07:08 AMPosted by Roxette
geez I have to actually spell it out for you.


Don't bother, you can't even read.

04/04/2017 07:08 AMPosted by Roxette
I have an IQ right near the genius range so in order to be a lot smarter than me you would have to be a genius.


Yeah, for sure... put your hand up anyone who believes this? A person with puerile replies, petty trolling and sheer ignorance. Yeah a genius would really bother wouldn't they? I mean, it's a plain as day right? Please...lol.

04/04/2017 07:08 AMPosted by Roxette
And if you can't pick it up this time there just is no hope


I pick up lies.

04/04/2017 07:10 AMPosted by Roxette
I occasionally do get drawn into discussions with idiots - what can I say.


A genius wouldn't let that happen, but a person with an massive ego might. Not sure why Roxette changed the subject about being smart. Seems that they don't care about the topic in the first place (we all knew that anyway).
04/03/2017 10:32 PMPosted by Vetokend
...

I go back to old expansions all the time to collect achievements, solo raids, etc. The old content isn't gone, it's just way easier because we've surpassed it. I love that feeling.


Well at least wait for Legion content to be ACTUALLY old. Saying your tired of it doesn't make it old or irrelevant. We outgear things way too fast usually.


I'm not tired of it at all, but we can't deny that 7.0 world quests are indeed old content, in contrast to 7.2 content. To me, that means we should have an easier time doing it (progression). Adding in a mechanic to make it still seem relevant is an awkward band-aid.

Remember when the Timeless Isle came out in MoP? Everybody was doing quests there for better rewards. The old/original 5.0 dailies were still available and untouched though, so it was easy to get them done quickly if you hadn't capped out reputations yet. Not only that, but you got to wipe the floor with something - it felt good, and gave a sense of validation. "Yes, these months of acquiring gear actually did something.. I'm not wasting my time."

I honestly see zero issues with outgearing something that's in the current expansion. The whole purpose of getting better gear is to be more powerful. Why is it such a bad thing for world quests over a half year old to be super easy?

If Blizzard absolutely wants old world quests to still be viable, they ought to just crank up the rewards and statically buff all the associated mobs. Make them stronger, yes, but don't make them stronger because I got stronger. We CAN have the best of both worlds without item level scaling.
04/04/2017 07:22 AMPosted by Ava
If not ilvl scaling, someone needs to take a serious look at this game's systems and do an overhaul.

Example: In WotLK's first cycle, the ilvl growth between fresh 80 dungeon gear (200) and the best available in the patch (213) was a growth of 6%. Not saying with stat allocation that the power growth was only 6%, but just a for instance. With Legion, we have a range of ilvl 800 as a base to roughly 900+... an inflation of 12%+ if the stats were a linear growth, which they aren't... the budget is worse than that.

Even with scaling, geared 110s are melting mobs. That's without any ToS gear... and we're getting a 7.3 as well... what's that going to look like? Fire and Brimstone clearing an entire area with 1 cast? Just running through an area with Demonwrath on while everything dies without even having to click it? In previous expansions, I've felt strong by the end of the xpac... but I've never felt this powerful by the end of the first patch cycle.

It's going to turn into the same garbage that is leveling - just run around, throw dots on everything and wait for it to die at your feet while it all does 0 damage to you.


Well thats the problem, most players are NOT going around melting mobs. and again, see my above post and see WHY players SHOULD be if they are geared and what blizz said they would do instead of scaling.

Nuff said. I am sick of repeating myself.
04/04/2017 07:20 AMPosted by Lucyfaithful
I really dont care if you believe scaling makes only a slight difference at all. over the last 4 days dozens of people have made the same claim. blizzard is dead wrong about scaling it should be removed today. not after half the people who play now quit over it being added into progression raids and low level zones in the next expansion.

read my lips scaling is the worst thing blizzard has done in years


Scaling literally isn't doing what you say it's doing. It's not making mobs hit harder(...now, it did for a day). It's only making them have more health. Mobs on the broken shore are harder by design, they hit harder, and have more health than mobs in other locations. That isn't scaling, that's design.

They also scale, but that's completely separate. A mob in stormheim isn't harder than a mob on the broken shore. And the mobs on the broken shore aren't harder than the one in stormheim because of scaling. Both mobs are scaled.

You can not like scaling all you want. I'm just pointing out your statements are incorrect on how scaling works and how mobs are more difficult on the broken shore because of scaling.

But frankly, how can Blizzard take your feedback as meaning anything when you don't even understand how the system is working? At no point did I say scaling was good, or you should like it. Literally just correcting you where you have the facts wrong.

Also what. Raids didn't have scaling attached to them. What are you even talking about?

Edit: Oh, you think it'll be added. Seriously, you're sitting there making up garbage to be upset about now. How is this at all a rational stance?
This is insane. What are the numbers now if you combine both threads?

10,000 since they dumped this stupid hidden idea on us?

Yeah, them ignoring this and us really seems like its going to work.
04/02/2017 10:26 AMPosted by Phumbles
Poll on MMO-Champ: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)/page25

Yes I don't like it, and it's enough to unsub
167 11.32%

No I don't like it, but its not enough to unsub
336 22.78%

No It doesn't or hasn't affected me
715 48.47%

No I like it
257 17.42%


Posting this as a favor to those who don't have time to read the downvoted post. In case you missed the 2nd reply to this thread because it was downvoted even though no opinion was attached to it.
04/03/2017 07:28 PMPosted by Dratharzul
04/03/2017 07:26 PMPosted by Ilinaaniri
i wanna bring 1-110 zone scaling everywhere.


An atrocious idea that would kill this game. No one will mount farm, or bother soloing old raids for achieve. People do that stuff when they're done with their dailies etc.


Hell, that's basically what I do for fun in this game aside from roleplaying with my friends.

Or DID do for fun. See, at some point Legion will be old content and I'd like to finish that off once I've outleveled it in a future expansion, but with level and ilevel scaling I doubt I'll ever be able to.
04/04/2017 07:10 AMPosted by Roxette
04/04/2017 07:01 AMPosted by Usdachoice
...

So someone in the "genius range" spends their time posting on a video game forum (to the tune 30400 posts) while arguing with people they deem as insignificant?

This thread has turned to comedic gold.


I post when I am at work - it doesn't take my full attention. I occasionally do get drawn into discussions with idiots - what can I say.


You are definitely not a genius. Real geniuses don't brag about being a genius on an online forum/thread.
Polls on mmo-champ should obviously be taken with a grain of salt and shouldn't be relied on for anything terribly useful.

Someone should go make a poll on what people actually think scaling does. Because some people seem to have some severely mistaken understanding of how this system actually works.

04/04/2017 07:39 AMPosted by Ghwene
You are definitely not a genius. Real geniuses don't brag about being a genius on an online forum/thread.


There are two people doing that tango remember.

:P
04/04/2017 07:32 AMPosted by Cleosaptrix
This is insane. What are the numbers now if you combine both threads?

10,000 since they dumped this stupid hidden idea on us?

Yeah, them ignoring this and us really seems like its going to work.


like I said...they're hoping this blows over quickly enough...and if it doesn't, they've got plan B. start shutting threads down and ban anyone who's against Blizz's vision or has issues with Blizz ignoring any feedback that isn't from their *expletive* kissers. :|

WoW is going to end not with a bang or even a whimper...it'll end up being a dumpster fire then go out with a puff of smoke and a tiny squeak. :|
04/04/2017 07:37 AMPosted by Light
04/02/2017 10:26 AMPosted by Phumbles
Poll on MMO-Champ: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2193945-iLvL-Scaling-Too-far-I-unsubbed-did-you-(Poll)/page25

Yes I don't like it, and it's enough to unsub
167 11.32%

No I don't like it, but its not enough to unsub
336 22.78%

No It doesn't or hasn't affected me
715 48.47%

No I like it
257 17.42%


Posting this as a favor to those who don't have time to read the downvoted post. In case you missed the 2nd reply to this thread because it was downvoted even though no opinion was attached to it.


Yeah, I remember responding to this earlier. I honestly don't see how it makes item level scaling seem like a good thing. From those numbers, roughly twice as many people don't like it than like it, and 11% are willing to unsubscribe from WoW as a result of it. That's not what I'd call a shining review for the feature.
04/04/2017 07:39 AMPosted by Trallara
Polls on mmo-champ should obviously be taken with a grain of salt and shouldn't be relied on for anything terribly useful.

Someone should go make a poll on what people actually think scaling does. Because some people seem to have some severely mistaken understanding of how this system actually works.
I would like to see a poll on how many MMO-Champion voters are current WoW customers.
04/04/2017 07:26 AMPosted by Tohottohandl

Well thats the problem, most players are NOT going around melting mobs. and again, see my above post and see WHY players SHOULD be if they are geared and what blizz said they would do instead of scaling.

Nuff said. I am sick of repeating myself.

I've gone through Broken Shore on 8 toons, DPS, Tanks, Heals even... and there's one glaring consistency I've noticed - if my ilvl is low, it takes longer to kill things or I might be in danger if I pull too much. If my ilvl is high on that toon, mobs are trivial and I can pull 5-10 at least and burst them down easily. While anecdotal sure, that tells me that having gear does matter, is not pointless, and is contrary to what everyone has been saying here... in addition, most everyone I've been playing the game with, not just engaging on the forums echo chamber, has said the same thing - if you're geared you'll be fine. Again, meaning having good gear does matter.

Again, if something isn't done about reigning in power bloat, or redesigning systems to accommodate for it, it's going to result in a broken game. I'll use the example of one of my 60s - running around 100% naked, with a green weapon, that toon is 2 shotting other lvl 60 mobs. This is an example of Blizzard introducing power bloat for the sake of fun, but not investigating the consequences it'd have on other areas of the game. When Blizz decided that this xpac, and this first patch cycle was going to have 4 raid difficulties, 15+ dungeon difficulties with gear growth, titanforging, etc... all that was cool because we had gear to strive for... but the power bloat is creating unintended consequences.

ilvl scaling is making it so that bloat is expanding at a rate of 2%, as opposed to 10%. Why should I go gear then? Because we went and did it when it was fine in every other xpac when the power growth per patch was much lower. The growth of dps values from launch to today is already greater than the entire growth percentage of TBC, WotLK, and Cata's entire xpacs.
04/04/2017 07:37 AMPosted by Light
Posting this as a favor to those who don't have time to read the downvoted post. In case you missed the 2nd reply to this thread because it was downvoted even though no opinion was attached to it.


you grab a small % of players on a 3rd party forum site, might I add, known for basing anyone that gives blizzard feedback that does not lick there boot. those numbers might be less then 0.05% of the wow pop, yet u act like its the 100%.

And even so 11% sub drop is a lot, you try to play that off like its nothing but the last thing wow needs is a 11% sub drop by one dumb miss take done by blizzard.
If not ilvl scaling, someone needs to take a serious look at this game's systems and do an overhaul.

Example: In WotLK's first cycle, the ilvl growth between fresh 80 dungeon gear (200) and the best available in the patch (213) was a growth of 6%. Not saying with stat allocation that the power growth was only 6%, but just a for instance. With Legion, we have a range of ilvl 800 as a base to roughly 900+... an inflation of 12%+ if the stats were a linear growth, which they aren't... the budget is worse than that.

TL;blahblahblahblah.


Yes, the system is flawed but that's another issue another thread.

Right now we are talking about ilvl scaling. You are just 1 example of OP AoE farming spec , what about fury warrior, tanks, healers, classes/specs that struggle from the start to end? The ilvl scaling is penalizing half of the classes and low ilvl.

If everyone starts with 900 ilvl, 1 click death to all mobs, we wouldn't be here, would we.
04/04/2017 07:42 AMPosted by Nayaga
04/04/2017 07:39 AMPosted by Trallara
Polls on mmo-champ should obviously be taken with a grain of salt and shouldn't be relied on for anything terribly useful.

Someone should go make a poll on what people actually think scaling does. Because some people seem to have some severely mistaken understanding of how this system actually works.
I would like to see a poll on how many MMO-Champion voters are current WoW customers.


Pretty sure none of them are. Last time I was on that board the majority of them at least were gung-ho Vanilla WoW champions.

...Sucks that I may or may not end up joining their number over this change.

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