7.2 Shoulder Openers (Assassination)

Rogue
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Edit: I removed all the old information from the first post. After testing different openers and sharing data, these are the current openers that are performing the best for now. When ToS opens and we start getting T20 pieces and new trinkets, I'll just start a new thread:

Everyone should be wearing T19 4piece. It is incredibly strong. Get it, wear it, love it.

Currently the go to setup is to wear the shoulders, boots, CoF, high ilvl NBF or stat stick, and have 3xMA relics with 4/4 MA traits on your weapon. This is consistently producing the highest dps for sin rogues. The go to opener for this setup is to talent into Nightstalker and to fit in 4 envenoms after your vanish. I will put the cast sequence below for this opener so just scroll down if this applies to you. If you do not have the optimal gear setup thanks to RNG, then just scroll down and find an opener that applies to your gear setup and talent choices;

Current strongest opener:
Nightstalker w/CoF and NBF or stat stick

Garrote > mut > rupture > mut > vendetta > envenom > KB > mut > wait until energy capped > vanish+envenom > mut > envenom > mut > envenom > mut > envenom > normal rotation

In order for this opener to beat out the NS rupture opener, you need to have 150%+ mastery and 905+ ilvl to have the proper amount of agility and mastery to make your envenoms hit hard enough to overpower a NS buffed rupture. You also need to fit in 4 envenoms within the crit window after your vanish for it to perform at the maximum level. To help with this, people are macroing their vanish and envenom together so that they can simultaneously vanish and envenom then you gotta just spam those mut > envenoms to achieve victory!

If you don't have the ilvl or mastery to make the above opener perform, you will achieve similar results with a DoS equipped. If you just don't want to play with a DoS, then I would recommend you do the above opener but where it says to vanish+envenom you should instead vanish+rupture then spam the mut > envenoms. If you have a DoS and like to use it then do the following opener to achieve great results;

Nightstalker w/DoS:
garrote > KB > rupture > mut > vendetta > envenom > mut > envenom > mut to 5CP (if you get 4CP, just FoK for the last one) > Wait until KB dot has less than 6 seconds left > vanish > rupture > mut > DoS > envenom > mut > crit buff is gone so clip SoT with your next envenom and go into your normal rotation from there.

This opener will produce similar results as the 4xEnvenom opener but relies heavily on the DoS on use effect. There is plenty of info out there about how DoS is not optimal to use once you have the boots so I won't go into detail on that, but just know that if you have the boots, try and get a different trinket...unless you just really enjoy the playstyle of DoS.

If you want to stay talented into Subterfuge, here are the openers that have produced the best results;

Subterfuge w/DoS:
Garrote > mut > rupture > mut > vendetta > envenom > KB > mut > envenom > mut > mut > auto attack and pool until KB dot is at 6 seconds remaining > Vanish

If mut > mut made 5 CPS then:
envenom > mut > garrote > DoS > spam envenom while DoS is casting to catch the last tick of your crit buff

If mut > mut made 4 CPS then:
garrote > envenom > mut > DoS > spam envenom while DoS is casting to catch the last tick of your crit buff

Then enter your normal rotation from there by mutilating to 4+CP and reapplying rupture.

Subterfuge W/O DoS:
Just do the same as above but where it says to use DoS, just envenom instead and keep doing your mut > envenom spam until the crit buff is gone.
Could you also give recommendations for without the 4 piece? I don't wear it because of my legendaries (cloak/shoulders) and the gloves are so bad that it ends up simming a dps loss. I've been running nightstalker because of the potential with a 30 stack buffed fok hitting anything in 10 yrds.
03/28/2017 07:29 AMPosted by Bclmj
Could you also give recommendations for without the 4 piece? I don't wear it because of my legendaries (cloak/shoulders) and the gloves are so bad that it ends up simming a dps loss. I've been running nightstalker because of the potential with a 30 stack buffed fok hitting anything in 10 yrds.


I think 4 pc bonus is better regardless what stats is on them. 10% dmage per bleed on envenom is huge and that's the reason why we have 6 pc this exp.
03/28/2017 07:29 AMPosted by Bclmj
Could you also give recommendations for without the 4 piece? I don't wear it because of my legendaries (cloak/shoulders) and the gloves are so bad that it ends up simming a dps loss. I've been running nightstalker because of the potential with a 30 stack buffed fok hitting anything in 10 yrds.


Without the 4piece, the priority to get in as many envenoms as possible definitely falls down on the list. For your situation you want to focus on getting your fan of knives off from stealth and then get a full 5CP rupture going on your vanish so it would look something like this:

FoK > Garrote > rupture > mut > KB > vendetta > envenom > mut to 5CP > vanish > rupture > mut > envenom > mut/envenom spam until you need to refresh garrote/rupture. Just make sure you let that nightstalker buffed rupture fall completely off or refresh it at 1 second.
03/28/2017 07:40 AMPosted by Handsomejeff
03/28/2017 07:29 AMPosted by Bclmj
Could you also give recommendations for without the 4 piece? I don't wear it because of my legendaries (cloak/shoulders) and the gloves are so bad that it ends up simming a dps loss. I've been running nightstalker because of the potential with a 30 stack buffed fok hitting anything in 10 yrds.


Without the 4piece, the priority to get in as many envenoms as possible definitely falls down on the list. For your situation you want to focus on getting your fan of knives off from stealth and then get a full 5CP rupture going on your vanish so it would look something like this:

FoK > Garrote > rupture > mut > KB > vendetta > envenom > mut to 5CP > vanish > rupture > mut > envenom > mut/envenom spam until you need to refresh garrote/rupture. Just make sure you let that nightstalker buffed rupture fall completely off or refresh it at 1 second.


I don't know why you got down voted lol
Jeff, thanks for starting the thread. I've posted my thoughts on my initial opener change in another thread or two, but I'll put it here too. It's the same as what you listed above, we think very much alike. I did do some target dummy testing last night, it actually worked out pretty well as popping the early vendetta caused me to get approximately the right amount of 7.2 energy back, just all at once instead of over 2 seconds. What it came down to was:

garrote > mut > rupture > mut > vendetta + envenom > Kingsbane > mut > envenom > mut to 5 cps >* vanish > envenom > mut > garrote > envenom > DOS (or if your Jeff, mut/envenom spam)

* = I was watching my KB weak aura timer and pooling until KB was at ~6-7 seconds, Then I would use my vanish to help ensure I got my final KB ticks as crits. Also, with the 4 moves in the 2nd vanish + DOS, the last few hits from DOS are not crits, but I think with the 4 piece set for now, 1 envenom is worth more than 3-4 crits from DOS. When 4 piece is gone, ensuring DOS crits on all might be better, but hopefully we have better trinkets at that point too :)
03/28/2017 07:44 AMPosted by Sameo
03/28/2017 07:40 AMPosted by Handsomejeff
...

Without the 4piece, the priority to get in as many envenoms as possible definitely falls down on the list. For your situation you want to focus on getting your fan of knives off from stealth and then get a full 5CP rupture going on your vanish so it would look something like this:

FoK > Garrote > rupture > mut > KB > vendetta > envenom > mut to 5CP > vanish > rupture > mut > envenom > mut/envenom spam until you need to refresh garrote/rupture. Just make sure you let that nightstalker buffed rupture fall completely off or refresh it at 1 second.


I don't know why you got down voted lol


Meh, there are some salty people on the forums. I'm not worried about it. Also, what you said is pretty true. The 4Piece is very worth it and Bclmj should definitely find a way to equip it!
03/28/2017 07:44 AMPosted by Elyzibeth
Jeff, thanks for starting the thread. I've posted my thoughts on my initial opener change in another thread or two, but I'll put it here too. It's the same as what you listed above, we think very much alike. I did do some target dummy testing last night, it actually worked out pretty well as popping the early vendetta caused me to get approximately the right amount of 7.2 energy back, just all at once instead of over 2 seconds. What it came down to was:

garrote > mut > rupture > mut > vendetta + envenom > Kingsbane > mut > envenom > mut to 5 cps >* vanish > envenom > mut > garrote > envenom > DOS (or if your Jeff, mut/envenom spam)

* = I was watching my KB weak aura timer and pooling until KB was at ~6-7 seconds, Then I would use my vanish to help ensure I got my final KB ticks as crits. Also, with the 4 moves in the 2nd vanish + DOS, the last few hits from DOS are not crits, but I think with the 4 piece set for now, 1 envenom is worth more than 3-4 crits from DOS. When 4 piece is gone, ensuring DOS crits on all might be better, but hopefully we have better trinkets at that point too :)


Hahaha this is exactly what I was planning on doing, watching for that optimal time to use my vanish to catch the ticks. Glad to see it works, now we just gotta see if there is something else that could potentially be better! Also, why you gotta rub it in that I STILL don't have DoS? That hurts man.../s

Seriously though, I hate Gul'dan soooooo much.
And here I am ... the whole Nighthold is nearing its end and I'm yet to drop DoS, be it through guild master loot ( which hasn't dropped since 1st week farming with guild ... WHYYYYYYYYYYY ) or bonus loot ( I'm not even gonna comment how many coins I've wasted so far on this !@#$er )
I completely lucked out and bonus rolled my DOS. Right now I'm in the "I desperately need another MA relic" club. I'm currently running 1 with COF and can't seem to get botanist to drop me an 890 shadow one.
I think my guild has seen 2 heroic draughts and one normal CoF (0 heroic) from actual drops, not bonus rolls.

I was thinking along those same lines too Elyzibeth, trying to fit in the vanish for the end of kingsbane.
03/28/2017 08:00 AMPosted by Omgbak
And here I am ... the whole Nighthold is nearing its end and I'm yet to drop DoS, be it through guild master loot ( which hasn't dropped since 1st week farming with guild ... WHYYYYYYYYYYY ) or bonus loot ( I'm not even gonna comment how many coins I've wasted so far on this !@#$er )


I'm in the same boat as you, hand me an oar and I'll help us row towards our demise.

Seriously, 20 kills on Gul'dan total (3 LFR, 15 normal, 5 heroic) all using a coin and still nothing. It'll happen eventually...like once tomb opens and there is some new godly trinket that I want.
>Did a Nighthold class hall mission
>Picked up a quest to kill Gul'dan on Normal
>Killed him
>Turned in quest
>Received a crate
>Opened Crate
>Got DoS
>Nerdgasm overload
03/28/2017 08:00 AMPosted by Omgbak
And here I am ... the whole Nighthold is nearing its end and I'm yet to drop DoS, be it through guild master loot ( which hasn't dropped since 1st week farming with guild ... WHYYYYYYYYYYY ) or bonus loot ( I'm not even gonna comment how many coins I've wasted so far on this !@#$er )


Not even lfr one? Damn man
I know its a good set but the sims say its worse no matter how I try to configure it. Does simc sim the 4 set inaccurately? I realize i shouldn't follow sims blindly but I'm willing to admit the sim programmers probably know better than me.
03/28/2017 08:39 AMPosted by Bclmj
I know its a good set but the sims say its worse no matter how I try to configure it. Does simc sim the 4 set inaccurately? I realize i shouldn't follow sims blindly but I'm willing to admit the sim programmers probably know better than me.


Bclmj,
It could have to do with you running Alacrity for all of your fights. It is a MAJOR dps loss against single target. The only fight I run alacrity on in Night Hold is Skorpyron generally. Some people run it on spell blade and botanist too, but I've found I tend to perform equally in both specs, so I don't bother to swap much anymore.

If you ran Agonizing poison, it would boost your envenom damage by a massive amount ~ 40-50%. When you combine that with the tier bonus it's substantial. You really should try simming your character with AP, and also try AP with your tier gear.

Good luck!
03/28/2017 08:17 AMPosted by Sameo
03/28/2017 08:00 AMPosted by Omgbak
And here I am ... the whole Nighthold is nearing its end and I'm yet to drop DoS, be it through guild master loot ( which hasn't dropped since 1st week farming with guild ... WHYYYYYYYYYYY ) or bonus loot ( I'm not even gonna comment how many coins I've wasted so far on this !@#$er )


Not even lfr one? Damn man

I saw some mother!@#$er on LFR getting a 920 one ... does that count? ç_ç'
Draught of souls was the perfect name for the trinket. Every week that goes by it slowly drains another piece of a persons soul that doesn't have one. Only once you acquire one can you indulge in the sweetness of other's souls......

But seriously, hang in there!
What about Subtlety?
03/28/2017 11:07 AMPosted by Brannick
What about Subtlety?


I have yet to even try out Subtlety so one of the other Sub rogues who have the shoulders will have to answer that, sorry!

Guess I should edit the post topic to be about assassination only.

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