Flying Grind - Arguments for it?

General Discussion
As some have said before, no one is happy with the way it's presented.

Blizz clearly doesn't want to have flight in the game, they want to create areas that are storyline integral that they don't want flight to interfere with. Suramar this expac, and the broken shore for sure. In WoD it was Tanaan.

The players just want flight at max to get around everything blizz tries to code in because it feels less tedious to run around things to just complete the objectives for numerous reasons.

I feel Blizz should just rip off the bandaid and not put flight into the game at all. Watch the sub count drop and make a decision on if thats what they want to continue on with. It's clear they dont want flight to interfere with certain areas, but the playerbase has been flying since BC, so they dont really want to give it up.

Blizz just needs to see how many people will really drop the game for good because of flight, and then abandon there ideas or stick with them.

Blizzard doesn't need WoW to be a cash cow anymore, I feel like they should just roll the dice.
04/10/2017 12:23 PMPosted by Orylie
04/10/2017 12:13 PMPosted by Shoogar
...

Because content is expensive to develop, and if you had flying right away you would burn through the content (at least the world content) much faster.

By making you work long and hard for flying, they are making content last longer.


This is exactly right. They need to maximize the amount of time spent on an expac and that's all it is. I understand it from a business perspective. Flying does make the content go quicker and given their current development of the game I get it. I don't like it but I do understand it from a business perspective.


I could if they didn't handle this expansion the way they did. With artifact weapons , class order hall quests , hidden appearances/color combos , each class being unique with at least 3 weapons , and lots of content released quickly ; they have given more of a reason to allow flying. With so much offered in different ways its almost impossible to fully experience it without a mechanic that makes completing it a little faster.
They want it to feel like there are lots of people playing so they make the world small. Very small. Tiny. Like dev hands tiny.
Then they make it hard to get to places easily so it takes longer and think that makes it Big. It doesn't. Ask any woman. Big is big.
04/10/2017 12:30 PMPosted by Malmedula
They want it to feel like there are lots of people playing so they make the world small. Very small. Tiny. Like dev hands tiny.
Then they make it hard to get to places easily so it takes longer and think that makes it Big. It doesn't. Ask any woman. Big is big.


XD
go grind instead of being on the forums
04/10/2017 12:32 PMPosted by Lewgata
go grind instead of being on the forums


Would but cant log into the game!!
Forcing players to "play the content the way the developers created" goes completely against the original concepts behind WOW. This was not to be another straight forward follow the developer path up a hill "Gauntlet, Baulders Gate, etc " style game. It was supposed to be a free world for the player to experience and want to continue to experience year after year. All of which the current decision makers have forgotten. The content provided is clearly appreciated by the players, just allow us to experience it when and how we want :)
Back before WoD there was a large group of people, myself included, that thought flying was a poor addition to the game that should have died with BC. There are many reasons why we didn't like flying and I'm not going to get into them. The point is that a significant portion of the Dev team felt the same way.

This lead to Blizzard more or less stating they were not going to have flying going forward. Players flipped out and Blizzard decided that since there were players and employees who felt strongly both for and against flying, they would 'compromise' by making it something that was unlocked late into an expansions life cycle.

Tldr There were both players and Devs that didn't like flying in the game, and those who did like it. They changed their plan of no more flying to "late expansion unlocked flying" as a compromise.
04/10/2017 12:32 PMPosted by Lewgata
go grind instead of being on the forums


It's not a grind, its a gate.
04/10/2017 12:32 PMPosted by Lewgata
go grind instead of being on the forums


We would if we could log in, silly.
I have yet to see 1 valid intelligent argument against flying. So I can tell you there are no valid reasons for grinding for flying.
04/10/2017 12:35 PMPosted by Pandoressa
Forcing players to "play the content the way the developers created" goes completely against the original concepts behind WOW. This was not to be another straight forward follow the developer path up a hill "Gauntlet, Baulders Gate, etc " style game. It was supposed to be a free world for the player to experience and want to continue to experience year after year. All of which the current decision makers have forgotten. The content provided is clearly appreciated by the players, just allow us to experience it when and how we want :)


Problem is that same argument can be used for anything.
  • Let me use bots.
  • Let me run in game casinos
  • Let me use hacks/cheats
  • All of these could be argued for by saying "just allow us to experience it how we want".
    04/10/2017 12:06 PMPosted by Velinda
    Can anyone come up with an argument for having it gated like it is now? One that pertains into how it being gated helps you personally? I cant find one , it doesn't make any sense other than to artificially "give more stuff to do".


    Shouldn't you come up with arguments for why you should have it immediately at max level? Max level means nothing nowadays, that's why it's gated. In BC and even Wrath leveling was still part of the game, it's all but gone now. The ground niche used to be filled by the leveling experience, but now that niche had to move to max-level experience because that's essentially all there is.
    They're lazy and probably want to create geometry with missing surfaces to pump out more empty space for us to run around and get snagged on.

    They think it's enjoyable. Cute huh?
    Mainly i meant that Flying doesn't harm or hurt other players experiences in any way. Fly if you want to or don't of you don't. Its a fun addition in the same way transmog is. Do we need it ? No. Do many players choose to use and like it? Yes.
    And flying really doesn't enhance the ability or speed to get yourself some beautiful purple gear , pvp and the new dungeon / raid content is what many players crave.

    I have flying, because, well....it's flying.....but it's not the necessity that people say it is.

    It takes little to no time to hit max level, and if you plot out WQ you don't have to ride around like an idiot to do them, and then it doesn't effect, instances, pvp or raiding
    Plain and simply I am pretty positive they think of it this way:

    Flying makes things quicker and easier. Gate the ability to fly = takes longer to go through and quest = takes longer to get achievements = takes longer to get reps up and things unlocked = more time spent for users = more blizz sub fees = more money. They can spill the whole "we want you to slow down and enjoy our content" bull!@#$, but that really means we just want you to slow down so you dont cap out and become bored with the game because we want money.

    I know this and play the game full well, either way I am fine with it. But I am absolutely certain that is their rationale with it. For instance, saturday I unlocked flying and spent time doing WQ/killing rarespawns/grabbing world treasure chests/questing and the speed at which you can do it is SO much quicker. This was originally an alt, so had very little in the way of those things. But after playing Saturday and Sunday after unlocking flying I jumped from 13,500 Resources to 47,800 resources, grinded over 70 Million AP (Quests/WQs/rarespawns/chests so a good chunk will sadlly not be repeatable) Finished Suramar quest 2/11 - 10/11, finished off 2 other zones I neglected to finish quests in. Flying is such a huge leap in convenience for running through quests its unbelievable. As I said, I am absolutely sure they figure if things are slowed down people will not progress their characters as fast as they would with flying, and still feel that they want to do so, so will sub longer than they may otherwise.
    Go to the southernmost flight path in Draenor Nagrand. (Nivek's Overlook)
    There are three treasures in the area, Two on islands just offshore, and one in a tree just west of the FP.
    Get to them without flying (and without looking up the solution if you haven't done it yet.).

    I found the solution for getting these treasures to be fun and engaging, giving me a good 40 minutes plus of interesting gameplay / puzzle solving.

    If I had flying when I was hunting the treasures, I'd have just flown out and up to retrieve them in a couple minutes or so.. Fast, forgettable, and definitely not fun.
    04/10/2017 02:34 PMPosted by Fugubar
    Go to the southernmost flight path in Draenor Nagrand. (Nivek's Overlook)
    There are three treasures in the area, Two on islands just offshore, and one in a tree just west of the FP.
    Get to them without flying (and without looking up the solution if you haven't done it yet.).

    I found the solution for getting these treasures to be fun and engaging, giving me a good 40 minutes plus of interesting gameplay / puzzle solving.

    If I had flying when I was hunting the treasures, I'd have just flown out and up to retrieve them in a couple minutes or so.. Fast, forgettable, and definitely not fun.


    As a pro-flyer, I can definitely agree that a number of treasures have been designed in interesting ways. Suramar is, I think, the best example of this -- because in Suramar you are not constantly struggling with some meaningless mob you aggroed. You can largely ignore the mobs but have to watch out for a handful or have an actually somewhat difficult fight on your hands. Generally when you're fighting the geometry, you're also in a position where about sixteen bears, one at a time, slowly aggro you while you're doing positioning.

    However, I don't find that my enjoyment of this content outstrips my enjoyment of flying to the point that I could conceivably play without it for longer than about two months.
    It's because blizzard is lazy. Instead of making content that requires flying to access and explore. The gate it off every expansion and make it only fast travel. Shame a 10 you feature was not expanded but that world require effort and better world design. Let's be real why do we have to reunlock flying over and over in the same game led alone why are there flight points still. The argument with flying should be at blizzard making content around it and not being lazy.

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