Affliction MG Changes - Some Transparency?

Class Development
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I realize we're only a few builds into 7.2.5 and I am trying to remain patient with the incoming changes to Warlocks, however this latest change to MG seems very extreme, and I am asking for some transparency from the developers on the intention behind this change.

In brief testing on a target dummy (I know, not the best reference), the 30% nerf to MG is accounting for a drop of about 27% DPS for this character using MG, Contagion, SL, GoSup, and Effigy from Live to PTR. This is the kind of large adjustments I was under the impression that the developers intended to avoid considering the artifact system.

This is also further compounded by our current T20 set bonus, which puts a lot of emphasis on drain damage and complete drains - both of which are part of the MG play style, which was just effectively neutered.

Obviously this is leading to some question about the direction of Affliction moving into 7.2.5 and the Tomb, as our set bonus is saying, "single target drain" for play style, but the PTR changes are effectively saying, "do not play the single target drain build".

I am assuming there is some upcoming adjustments to our baseline dot damage to offset the MG nerf and give us better multi-dotting, but without any hint of this on the PTR, it's very difficult to guess where we're heading.

Can we have some communication on this change and the intended direction for Afflcition in 7.2.5? As it stands now, without some kind of communication, these adjustments are going to cause some serious strife in the Affliction Community.
I feel like they were not taking M+ into consideration when making these changes.
Multidotting? Idgaf about multidotting. If it is anyones intention to base our spec around the assumption that there will always or usually be stuff to multidot then id rather see dots get changed so they can only be applied to one mob at a time and anytime you dot something else the dots are removed from the original mob
So they take MG from 70% down to 40%, wtf is wrong with 70% down to 60% or something, drop it down slowly with a scalpel if you need to make adjustments, why must it always be the sledgehammer?
70% to 40% seems like a serious extreme in terms of a nerf. And I'll be the first to admit that Affliction probably needed a slight one. But to effectively remove almost thirty percent of the spec's overall damage with no realistic compensation (face it; nobody's taking Haunt) seems a bit much, especially considering people actually enjoy the MG playstyle and now it pulls relevant numbers on top of that.
I wholeheartedly agree OP and your post articulated my concerns very well...

Say something blizzard, its not right to make a gigantic change like this without any clarification.... a lot of people are worried.
04/18/2017 07:58 PMPosted by Dreadfury
70% to 40% seems like a serious extreme in terms of a nerf. And I'll be the first to admit that Affliction probably needed a slight one. But to effectively remove almost thirty percent of the spec's overall damage with no realistic compensation (face it; nobody's taking Haunt) seems a bit much, especially considering people actually enjoy the MG playstyle and now it pulls relevant numbers on top of that.
Aff top end should start coming down with the bug fixes to broken things like Fatal Echos.

More was probably needed; but as is apparent that they're still catching some fairly substantial bugs this late in the game... does not say good things about how much attention to detail is paid to the class.
And i love the changes to haunt. Like are they trying to make it more appealing? Because if so they are failing hard. You now get to spend twice the shards without any way to gen more
I'm so ready to go grind out AP for another specialization, and pray to the gods of rng that I'll be able to get better legendaries for that specialization as well in a short enough time span as to play it in Tomb of Sargeras!

Great job!!

In all seriousness though, we really need some answer on this. Unless you're going to totally rebalance Affliction damage, including making DoTs much stronger baseline, I don't see this doing anything but nerfing the hell out of the specialization.

Also, stop buffing Haunt. It will never be viable over the other options and it (or MG) should be a baseline ability. It's ridiculous that it isn't. Adding a soul shard cost for such a small damage increase on a target? You will always have a higher benefit from using Malefic Grasp, especially because it doesn't cost a resource to use, and our shard generation is going down dramatically in 7.2.5 with the loss of T19 4-piece.

The only time I see Haunt even being remotely attractive would be a fight with non-stop movement, and even then WiA with SE would still most likely be better.
I feel for you guys. Shadow is in a bad spot after they overnerfed due to S2M and it appears they're repeating the process here. I think anyone can look at mythic performance and come to the conclusion that Affliction is in need of some downward tuning but at face value this just looks heinous. Fixing bugs that were inflating damage and then a 30% reduction to MG on top of that? Seriously? What happened to the whole diatribe about how this expansion would allow them to turn lots of different knobs to balance specs without breaking pvp? If they need to turn one knob this much there's a much bigger problem here behind the scenes than affliction being too strong.
They give a f*ck guys -.- they can't even fix the Wrathguard glyph, they won't rework soul effigy and the whole point of nerfing affliction is to force us into destruction, which means more and more of our money, it seems to me they make us reroll every patch, same !@#$ always.
I'm starting to feel like I'm being toyed with. Seriously, I just don't get what you are trying to accomplish here.

1) We do an extreme amount of meaningless damage to Skorp, and you nerf seeds/StS.

2) the class forum was full of suggestions and pleas to address the QoL issue with effigy. We got nothing.

3) You basically forced us into MG

And now we're seeing several "adjustments" to our damage based on farm numbers, totally ignoring the fact that some (most) of us are still in progression.

I'm sure there was a bug with fatal echoes, but damn if this doesn't feel like you're trying to ninja in some additional nerfs. Which is really sad that that thought even comes to mind. I mean why not just sit on the conduit changes and the FE fix and see what happens before announcing (if you want to call it that) another major nerf. And some discussion about your concerns for the spec would have gone a long way.

I mean couldn't you have come to us and said, "hey, we think Aff is a lttle OP at the moment and we're considering some changes, here is what we're thinking . . ., we'd love sone feedback." I'm not saying give us control over class design, but the way you've gone about this just seems really heavy handed.

On a personal note, my only concern is that I feel like I'm contributing to my raid team. We're a small group and everyone's damage matters. During EN I went from feeling like a liability to feeling like I'm not a hindrance. In NH, I feel like I'm consistently contributing to our progression. Please try to consider how eliminating extreme outliers impacts the avg player.
I'd be cool with haunt if it didn't suck and if it wasn't useless with our tier set
04/18/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Cloontang

I am assuming there is some upcoming adjustments to our baseline dot damage to offset the MG nerf and give us better multi-dotting, but without any hint of this on the PTR, it's very difficult to guess where we're heading.

[/quote]

Wont happen.

strogner DoT's = buff to all even w/o MG.

honestly think blizzard will do that?

Destro and aff's T20 bonus' are being made ot seem less exciting with the changes going on with the specs in PTR.

Also Haunt sucks.
the buff is actually a nerf (given that shards on it will hurt your dmg as UA need em and have traits that buff it)
04/19/2017 01:28 AMPosted by Lockedheart
04/18/2017 05:43 PMPosted by Cloontang

I am assuming there is some upcoming adjustments to our baseline dot damage to offset the MG nerf and give us better multi-dotting, but without any hint of this on the PTR, it's very difficult to guess where we're heading.



Wont happen.

strogner DoT's = buff to all even w/o MG.

honestly think blizzard will do that?

Destro and aff's T20 bonus' are being made ot seem less exciting with the changes going on with the specs in PTR.

Also Haunt sucks.
the buff is actually a nerf (given that shards on it will hurt your dmg as UA need em and have traits that buff it)[/quote]

Buy hey! at least it wont cost mana anymore lol...
04/18/2017 09:07 PMPosted by Terrorox
And i love the changes to haunt. Like are they trying to make it more appealing? Because if so they are failing hard. You now get to spend twice the shards without any way to gen more
Solution for a more stable shard regen without wrecking more talents? Easy.

A simple improvement, like this: Drain Soul - Full Channeling of Drain Soul Generates 1 Soul Shard. Also Generates 1 Soul Shard if the target dies during this effect.

We get a shard if target dies during channeling, as usual - but now, we still get a shard even if the target didn't die, because we've completed a full channel.

Win-Win. Bugs me why they never even try this.
Do...do the devs actually have a plan of what they want with the Affliction spec? I mean, the pendulum's simply swung the other way and now players are going to spec WiA and SE. I mean, all you've done is simply make players revert to EN-style gameplay.

What makes it worse is that SE is a widely disliked talent, with few defenders, and it doesn't play well with the T20 bonus.

This just seems to be knee-jerk balancing rather than something well-thought out. It's not like it's easy to swap specs in Legion, considering relic-farming, AP and spec-specific legendaries.
As someone who has been playing Affliction since I came back, in the last portion WoD, I've lost track of how many times the Affliction play style has changed.... Do they really not know what they want affliction to be, or are the devs full of ADD and just can't stick to something? SOMEONE must really not like seeing out UA crit for over a million or something.
04/19/2017 12:08 AMPosted by Warwor

1) We do an extreme amount of meaningless damage to Skorp, and you nerf seeds/StS.


And then give us a new trait that does nothing to improve our QoL with Seed's ridiculous cast time and uselessness on anything but Skorpyron.

04/19/2017 12:08 AMPosted by Warwor

2) the class forum was full of suggestions and pleas to address the QoL issue with effigy. We got nothing.


I have never specced into Effigy yet, despite it hampering my DPS pre-7.2, because I refuse to accept its terrible design that was loathed and cast off from Mages.

04/19/2017 12:08 AMPosted by Warwor

3) You basically forced us into MG


Not great design. And please don't make bad talents viable options by nerfing the good talents. Maybe make the bad talents not bad?


On a personal note, my only concern is that I feel like I'm contributing to my raid team. We're a small group and everyone's damage matters. During EN I went from feeling like a liability to feeling like I'm not a hindrance. In NH, I feel like I'm consistently contributing to our progression. Please try to consider how eliminating extreme outliers impacts the avg player.


Quoted and bolded for truth and emphasis. This exactly mirrors my experience. We weren't contributing to progression in NH either until just a month ago. That's 6.5 months of irrelevance, 1 month of relevance.

I don't care about being top on every fight, and I don't mind a few nerfs to maintain some parity between classes, but don't force us into Soul Effigy. Make it viable, make it competitive for the few people who like it, but for the majority of us who loathe it, please don't hamstring us, please don't make our spec un-fun.

Also, thank you for finally fixing things so that our artifact finally works closer to how it's supposed to in Nighthold. Hopefully it will continue to do so in Tomb of Sargeras. I have felt since day one that the lion's share of Affliction's problems and its wildly swinging pendulum of strengths and shortcomings all stem from the fundamentally broken design of our artifact when you took away the souls it would spawn for us to kill.
YIP on the MG nerf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dntaKKdKPik

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