Another alternative to outright ban-hammer

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Random question, is paying for carry (Game gold) bad or is it RL money bad?

I know RL money bad cause that's just legal crap blizz doesn't want to bother with. But some comments seemed to say carries in general are bannable (i.e. pay game gold). Just wanted to check on this.

Edit adding:

Thx many people who responded. I see gold carries a lot so I was wondering.
Carries for gold is a non-supported transaction. It isn't against the rules, but if they scam you Blizzard will (most likely) not do anything.
05/02/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Kimmiroa
Random question, is paying for carry (Game gold) bad or is it RL money bad?

I know RL money bad cause that's just legal crap blizz doesn't want to bother with. But some comments seemed to say carries in general are bannable (i.e. pay game gold). Just wanted to check on this.
just read some of the tos about cheating an your answer will become as clear as daylight as to what you can do should not do ect.
yeah they should stop handing out account bans and just ban IPs. Those undesirable cheaters are just going to cheat again like the OP.
Once a cheat always a cheat
05/02/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Kimmiroa
Random question, is paying for carry (Game gold) bad or is it RL money bad?

I know RL money bad cause that's just legal crap blizz doesn't want to bother with. But some comments seemed to say carries in general are bannable (i.e. pay game gold). Just wanted to check on this.


Carries for gold are completely viable. It's an in game currency for an in game good (ie raid run) so they have no issues with it. It is easy to get scammed though, so you just have to be sure if you want a gold carry for whatever that you look into the guild and/or group offering the carry.

People did gold carries for CMs last exp, pandaland etc. People have been doing gold carries for raids for a long time too. Just look for reputable sources.
05/02/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Kimmiroa
Random question, is paying for carry (Game gold) bad or is it RL money bad?

I know RL money bad cause that's just legal crap blizz doesn't want to bother with. But some comments seemed to say carries in general are bannable (i.e. pay game gold). Just wanted to check on this.


paying with in game items or currency is fine for any carry or mount run etc etc but paying with IRL money is bannable and you should report anyone that asks you to pay IRL money. Take screen caps and send them all in to blizz
05/02/2017 02:19 PMPosted by Daddyfiend
yeah they should stop handing out account bans and just ban IPs.


Problem with that is IPs are quite often shared depending on the provider. So you could end up preventing folks from playing who are innocent. And there are ways to spoof an IP address. And there are folks who play at things like e-cafes. So if you banned their IP, you ban everyone from the e-cafe.

Not a good idea.
05/02/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Kimmiroa
Random question, is paying for carry (Game gold) bad or is it RL money bad?

I know RL money bad cause that's just legal crap blizz doesn't want to bother with. But some comments seemed to say carries in general are bannable (i.e. pay game gold). Just wanted to check on this.


Paying for carries is not supported if using gold, and no real life cash like you see advertised in group finder. Account sharing carries are never allowed, as well as win trading, which is expressly forbidden.
05/02/2017 02:23 PMPosted by Smitenhealz
05/02/2017 02:19 PMPosted by Daddyfiend
yeah they should stop handing out account bans and just ban IPs.


Problem with that is IPs are quite often shared depending on the provider. So you could end up preventing folks from playing who are innocent. And there are ways to spoof an IP address. And there are folks who play at things like e-cafes. So if you banned their IP, you ban everyone from the e-cafe.

Not a good idea.


well they need to take a hard stance on cheaters. I know a lot of botters that all got banned last year and all bought a new account instantly turned their bots back on then sell the gold they farm to a certain website. I even reported with full account names and alts to blizzard but none of them were banned again.

Maybe blizzard owns the website they sell their gold to who knows.

Also

2017... dynamic IP
05/02/2017 02:26 PMPosted by Kozzae
05/02/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Kimmiroa
Random question, is paying for carry (Game gold) bad or is it RL money bad?

I know RL money bad cause that's just legal crap blizz doesn't want to bother with. But some comments seemed to say carries in general are bannable (i.e. pay game gold). Just wanted to check on this.


Paying for carries is not supported if using gold, and no real life cash like you see advertised in group finder. Account sharing carries are never allowed, as well as win trading, which is expressly forbidden.


Oh was OP an account sharing carry? I was thinking of the pay another player gold to get brought along dg/raid kind of carry.
05/02/2017 02:28 PMPosted by Daddyfiend
05/02/2017 02:23 PMPosted by Smitenhealz
...

Problem with that is IPs are quite often shared depending on the provider. So you could end up preventing folks from playing who are innocent. And there are ways to spoof an IP address. And there are folks who play at things like e-cafes. So if you banned their IP, you ban everyone from the e-cafe.

Not a good idea.


well they need to take a hard stance on cheaters. I know a lot of botters that all got banned last year and all bought a new account instantly turned their bots back on then sell the gold they farm to a certain website. I even reported with full account names and alts to blizzard but none of them were banned again.

Maybe blizzard owns the website they sell their gold to who knows.

Also

2017... dynamic IP


Just report them. Also blizz can file a lawsuit against them (thw website people) as well. I think blizz recently sued a company that was using their creative property (characters from some of their other games) in their own video games.

It may take time, but eventually botters will be punished enough that they either stop or blizz just makes a lot of money from selling their games multiple times to the same people.
05/02/2017 02:04 PMPosted by Kegstand
05/02/2017 01:15 PMPosted by Cäynä
Ban cheaters period. No 2nd chances just a ban.
Amen. Imho Blizzard is far to lenient in punishing bots/hacks/exploits, especially with the "but but but they might be compromised/BotD" way of thinking.

Bit of a side note, they are a bit to lenient with forum bans as well, but thats another can of worms for a different day.

It has very little to do with "they might be compromised!"

The reason they do 6-month ban waves instead of permabans for WoW is because people cheating are more likely to wait out the ban if they know it will ends compared to if they get permabanned, where the same player is likely to just buy a new account right away and continue botting or what have you.
In the words of Chris Rock:

"Don't cheat, DON"T CHEAT!, you know why? Cause you're gonna get caught. I don't care if you're 007, you're gonna get caught"
05/02/2017 02:37 PMPosted by Eilinasia
05/02/2017 02:04 PMPosted by Kegstand
...Amen. Imho Blizzard is far to lenient in punishing bots/hacks/exploits, especially with the "but but but they might be compromised/BotD" way of thinking.

Bit of a side note, they are a bit to lenient with forum bans as well, but thats another can of worms for a different day.

It has very little to do with "they might be compromised!"

The reason they do 6-month ban waves instead of permabans for WoW is because people cheating are more likely to wait out the ban if they know it will ends compared to if they get permabanned, where the same player is likely to just buy a new account right away and continue botting or what have you.


no youre wrong. They buy new accounts to bot on then sell the gold off to websites.

A lot of botters actually have more than one account. I know a guy that has 5 accounts and 4 of them are botting non stop. Reported them not long after legion was released. Never banned and still playing/botting today
05/02/2017 10:56 AMPosted by Chihao
Ok this looks like another rant thread to whichever CM is reading this right now, but let me get this straight. I am here to provide constructive feedback on what has definitely affected me.

Quick Background: My raider got banned for 'Exploitation of Game Mechanics' despite not doing anything out of the ordinary. Appealed but rejected

And the same can apply to maybe some others. You've caught some rotten apples yes, but at the same time many innocents are dragged into this. This is heavily affecting the innocent & their related people.

My 2 cents on a better way to deal with this rather than outright ban.

1: Roll-back the account, all the way to before whichever suspicious activity / exploit was done. Or you know, just dump it back at pre 7.2 (but please give back AK, its important for raiders!). This way, whatever **** they did to break the game balanced is effectively nullified (for the most bit)

2: Put these accounts on a watch-list. This guy has cheated before, and it's likely he will do it again (actually they probably won't, but for mentioning sakes). So these accounts undergo another scan every week / month searching for hacking. If there is hacking detected, straight ban hammer this time! Can't say didn't warn you. They can probably be cleared off the watch-list after 3/6/12 months.

3: Like legit modifying his account. Did he exploit something to bring him profit? Remove all his gold!. Did he duplicate mounts? Remove all tradable mounts from his collection. Did he glitch out and obtain a toy / achievement? Remove it! (Wait, this shouldn't even be bannable, or fake achievs should be bannable). Whichever thing the abuser has touched, make it gone!

Maybe these 3 steps are going way too far in your eyes for there are maybe hundreds or thousands of these banned accounts. But if there really are that many, all the more you should be prioritizing quality support, instead of vaguely ban-hammer for everything. In the case that the innocent is spared from the horror of losing his hard work, Blizzard would almost become a patron god to them, answering their prayers. In the botter / cheater eyes? Whelp, got discovered, move on. Faking their innocence to get the account back? Ok but you lost what you cheated for and more, definitely not doing it again.

Going a little further has a huge impact in your customer eyes, please don't disappoint us. (Well, blocking this thread while quoting forum rules isn't going to help you either, and if it's somebody's comment that is toxic instead, remove that please, not my thread.)


I find it interesting you never mention what "your raider" did to get banned.
05/02/2017 02:37 PMPosted by Eilinasia
It has very little to do with "they might be compromised!"

The reason they do 6-month ban waves instead of permabans for WoW is because people cheating are more likely to wait out the ban if they know it will ends compared to if they get permabanned, where the same player is likely to just buy a new account right away and continue botting or what have you.
It's the "reason" given after filing a report, so idk.

I digress, it's archaic and doesn't work. People just buy new accounts now even with a 6 month since they can just make up the loss in a few days thanks to the lvl 100 boost. I knew a guy back in Cata (maybe MoP? its been years) that would do that and that was without the boost. He'd just buy a new account, slap it on his old bnet account, and only be inconvenienced for a few days to a week while his bot re-leveled and then got back into his bot gathering routine. Tbh I think he's gone through half a dozen accounts and he still has all the goods gained from botting i.e titles, gold, etc...

Dozens of people reported him numerous times and each time was "the account might be compromised" as a response. Granted, I know they can't disclaim the exact reason or even if anything is done but they should word it differently mayhaps?

Bottom line though, they need to be more strict with punishments.

Dozens of people reported him numerous times and each time was "the account might be compromised" as a response. Granted, I know they can't disclaim the exact reason or even if anything is done but they should word it differently mayhaps?


Stop reporting him with tickets to game masters then who work customer service, and just right click report since that goes to the hacks team directly to investigate.
Keep whining, OP, I need more schadenfreude in my life.

05/02/2017 02:28 PMPosted by Daddyfiend
Maybe blizzard owns the website they sell their gold to who knows.


That's a pretty serious allegation there, champ. Be careful what you say on Blizzard's OFFICIAL forums.
05/02/2017 01:02 PMPosted by Pallymcbeal
Zero tolerance is the best policy. And if it is a ban, it's likely not the first time he has had to be on the wrong end of a GM action...

There are some actions that can and do earn a ban on the 1st offense.
05/02/2017 03:54 PMPosted by Thelootgnome
Keep whining, OP, I need more schadenfreude in my life.

05/02/2017 02:28 PMPosted by Daddyfiend
Maybe blizzard owns the website they sell their gold to who knows.


That's a pretty serious allegation there, champ. Be careful what you say on Blizzard's OFFICIAL forums.


lol, there's a difference between an allegation and supposition.

Buying new accounts is just a cost of doing business for people who are making money with bots etc. IF they're making more than they're losing, there's no incentive to quit. Seems to me that the cheaters gold could be tracked to the people they sell it to and removed from game. (or whatever was gained by the cheating is removed from all parties involved) When people start losing the stuff they're paying real money for, they'll quit paying real money for it. Remove the demand and there's no motivation to supply.

Edit: I'm not saying remove gains instead of banning, I'm saying do both. I'm no programmer so there may be technical reasons beyond my understanding why things can't be done, but imo if any company chooses to take banning punitive measures instead of viable alternative preventative measures, they're doing it for their own bottom line.

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