This AK nerf is literally pointless.

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I hate grinding artifact power. Gathering miniscule amounts of 2-3 million per world quest, but feeling compelled to do each and every wq anyway because my addon tells me it'll all add up to 1/4 of my current trait isn't fun. It's a tedious grind that makes me feel like the developers care more about how much time I clock in than how much fun I'm having. Having more sources of AP doesn't mean I'm going to pursue them. Why does it matter if someone has only participated in 25% of Legion? If they only enjoy that 25%, maybe there's a problem there?

I was excited to wait for AK 50 because RL would keep me mostly busy until early July, and by then I could leisurely get my characters to Concordance, collect the class-based reward(Illipepe, for one), and move on to another character, without worrying about having to put in the same ridiculous grind I did the first time.

All this change means for me is that attempting to grind out other classes' rewards a painful idea, rather than relaxing. I've always loved WoW because it wasn't as grind-based as other MMO's I played, or at least it didn't feel like it, but Legion's Artifact Power system has been leaving a sour taste in my mouth. This change feels like an extension of the issues I take with it.

Hardcore players are going to grind like hormonal highschoolers no matter what changes you make. This change to artifact knowledge will only slow them down, and punish more casual players like myself.
05/23/2017 10:12 AMPosted by Levíathan
AK is a 'set and forget' mechanic. Hell, I don't even keep track of it. I just start it and never look back at the timer. How was that ever perceived as an over reliance by Bliz?

AK is hardly a "set and forget" mechanic. It has to be checked every 4-1/2 days so another work order can be started. If you "forget it" you never pick up the work order that is ready so you can start a new one. I hate AK for this reason alone...it never leaves my mind... "Don't forget to check the AK timer." "Oh crap, my AK is finishing in the middle of raid! Now the next one will be behind." And more constant thought about AK.

What IS something that needs zero thought is AP. It comes from every players do normally in game...regardless of playstyle. It falls into your bags if you love WQs. It happens along if you love Archaeology and Pet Battles. It drops from the sky if you enjoy raiding, PvP, or instances. It literally comes from every kind of end game content one could imagine. THAT takes significantly less thought than AK.

AK has to be remembered or it will never be done. AP just lands in bags without giving it a 2nd thought if you play the game regardless of playstyle.
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.


While this is funny, its kind of generous to say Legion has a lot of content when it recycles it's own content more then cata recycled past villains.
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
[quote]


what else is there?
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.


Have you? More importantly have the developers?
05/23/2017 11:48 AMPosted by Kimmiroa
05/23/2017 11:38 AMPosted by Galo
...

SHAME on you for saying this, shame.

How dare you criticize a person on this forum.

That is so low it is not even funny.

What if the 25% they have engaged in is all they like? Who do you think you are to attack them?

Wow, can't believe you were allowed to attack someone like this and not get fired.


Yah cause Ornyx just called out a person who complained and sarcastically asked what is he supposed to do without the AP grind and that person's info indicates they have 75% worth of content they could do. That poor person who has nothing to do got attacked so savagely.

For an MMO it shows that they are not really focused on feedback, and more on there internal numbers. Its not entirely about what was said, but how it was a response :P
Honestly i think it shows a lot.
It was a post that should have been ignored, Not responded too.
...I think you're getting caught up on a difference between who made the post regarding this, which we wanted to be a reactive message once players started talking about it.

I don't consider it 'out-of-touch' to let the conversation happen and then respond to it once people have had some time to discuss the change. The only reason anyone here may think this is a problem is because there was a post on the EU forums before the NA forums, which, frankly, the community here has been stuck on for years as if there's some vendetta to be had against another region - and we don't see as a problem.

At the end of the day, the information being given yesterday or today does not change the information or what we would have said - so let's move on from this and get back on topic.


This gating is ridiculous. Its time to stop pretending it has anything to do with the player "feeling" they are done. They won't because you left in the endless concordance grind but without actually letting us get there in any reasonable amount of time. This expansion is the absolute worst for feeling like you're done something, sitting back and feeling like you've accomplished getting what you want done. The whole expansion is nothing but an attempt to keep a constant feeling of grinding, be it through the really bad endless trait on your artifact or having to do a boss endless amounts of times to roll a perfect titanforge.

I miss when I felt the accomplishment, When I would get my piece of gear and feel like I actually finished something for that tier in WoW. It's not like that anymore and it feels like this game is heading down the Korean MMO route of endless grinds and using that as an excuse to say "Well, you haven't capped your artifact" when asking what else there is to do this patch.

I do love WoW but I find that these things hinder any feeling of excitement I do have, its lessening the fun and increasing the frustration.


1. Blizzard does not under any circumstance want to give up AP as a reward. It's a low effort thing that they can just give out for everything.

2. Because of 1, they cannot give the players a hard end point on the weapons. Doing so would effectively be making AP into past currencies with a hard ceiling - which they don't want.

Players should change their perception of what Concordance is after the first point. The first point is the "end point" that players want. The second point and beyond is a trashcan which props up 1 and 2. Players should absolutely treat it like such.
05/23/2017 11:38 AMPosted by Galo
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.


SHAME on you for saying this, shame.

How dare you criticize a person on this forum.

That is so low it is not even funny.

What if the 25% they have engaged in is all they like? Who do you think you are to attack them?

Wow, can't believe you were allowed to attack someone like this and not get fired.


Hardly disagree with you, it was a clever to point out how mindless the previous poster and you are.
05/23/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Raiyyn
Don't forget to check the AK timer." "Oh crap, my AK is finishing in the middle of raid! Now the next one will be behind."


That isn't how it works, unless you are queuing only 1 at a time, or waiting to pick up until both are ready.

You can pick up a ready AK, not start a new one until 10 minutes before your second completes, and the one you just started will start 10 minutes later.
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.


That's a great attitude for someone just "doing their job". This is 100% bad PR and it makes Blizzard look worse when you make comments that directly attack a paying customer.
05/23/2017 10:37 AMPosted by Wooble
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.

Its pretty unprofessional for a Blizzard employee to armory troll a player.

I think it's quite appropriate...most definitely not unprofessional. At least not in this type of scenario where players scream for "communication" then immediately attack anyone who actually attempts to communicate. And when the players who do the most attacking don't actually do anything in the game at all.

Kudos to Ornyx for not just sitting there and taking the crap thrown at him. I <3 this little, baby Space Goat.
05/23/2017 11:38 AMPosted by Galo
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.


SHAME on you for saying this, shame.

How dare you criticize a person on this forum.

That is so low it is not even funny.

What if the 25% they have engaged in is all they like? Who do you think you are to attack them?

Wow, can't believe you were allowed to attack someone like this and not get fired.


Please snowflake. When you dish it out, expect to get bitten back sometimes.

You want to hate on Blizzard, don't be surprised when they factually point out your own failures.

Someone who whines about lack of content when they haven't done the content available isn't really in a good spot to criticize.

With all the crap the blues take on here, it's nice to see some teeth on the retorts.

I for one would give Ornyx 2 raises for this:

- one for dealing with the overall absolute atrocious "Blizzard never does anything right" narrative on GD
- one for telling like it is to a "never-Blizzard" parrot.
05/23/2017 09:51 AMPosted by Ornyx
As she noted, this change is mainly aimed at increasing base Artifact Power gains instead of an over-reliance on Artifact Knowledge


That's not what you guys wrote in the patch notes at all though? And this isn't reflected in anything we've been doing in Legion, everything that we do all the time still gives the same amount of base AP.

So can you point out what you mean by this and please do not say the Elite Strike because that has been about .01% of my total acrued AP.
05/23/2017 11:39 AMPosted by Beraht
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.


#airhorn
#wowwink
#thuglife

*popcorn intensifies*

Someone gonna need some ice for that burn. Heck alert the burn ward, this is going to require major surgery.

I'm not at all embarrassed or ashamed of my Armory in any context Berith, thank you.

I honestly don't know why you're allowed to post anything.
05/23/2017 11:55 AMPosted by Futatsuiwa
05/23/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Ornyx
I assume you're trying to make a joke about content, because, looking at your Armory, it appears you've only engaged with about 25% of Legion.


That's a great attitude for someone just "doing their job". This is 100% bad PR and it makes Blizzard look worse when you make comments that directly attack a paying customer.


I thought it was funny as hell. People seem to have no qualms bashing and berating the devs, but HOLY HELL they better not dare say anything negative back.
05/23/2017 11:48 AMPosted by Kimmiroa
05/23/2017 11:38 AMPosted by Galo
...

SHAME on you for saying this, shame.

How dare you criticize a person on this forum.

That is so low it is not even funny.

What if the 25% they have engaged in is all they like? Who do you think you are to attack them?

Wow, can't believe you were allowed to attack someone like this and not get fired.


Yah cause Ornyx just called out a person who complained and sarcastically asked what is he supposed to do without the AP grind and that person's info indicates they have 75% worth of content they could do. That poor person who has nothing to do got attacked so savagely.


It was not only unprofessional of him, it was an abuse of his power and position.

He could have done 1% of the content and his argument would still be valid.

Ornyx decided not to engage in the debate about the facts, but rather attack the person in a passive aggressive manner. That is shameful.

Ornyx owes the customer and immediate and unqualified apology, public. And then he can come back on and engage with the community as a person of character and integrity.
05/23/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Raiyyn
05/23/2017 10:12 AMPosted by Levíathan
AK is a 'set and forget' mechanic. Hell, I don't even keep track of it. I just start it and never look back at the timer. How was that ever perceived as an over reliance by Bliz?

AK is hardly a "set and forget" mechanic. It has to be checked every 4-1/2 days so another work order can be started. If you "forget it" you never pick up the work order that is ready so you can start a new one. I hate AK for this reason alone...it never leaves my mind... "Don't forget to check the AK timer." "Oh crap, my AK is finishing in the middle of raid! Now the next one will be behind." And more constant thought about AK.

What IS something that needs zero thought is AP. It comes from every players do normally in game...regardless of playstyle. It falls into your bags if you love WQs. It happens along if you love Archaeology and Pet Battles. It drops from the sky if you enjoy raiding, PvP, or instances. It literally comes from every kind of end game content one could imagine. THAT takes significantly less thought than AK.

AK has to be remembered or it will never be done. AP just lands in bags without giving it a 2nd thought if you play the game regardless of playstyle.


That is some extreme mental gymnastics. Holy !@#$. You don't actively seek out AK, you set it and forget it for 10 days or 5 if you wanna place the next order before it rolls the second one. I think its straight out lying if you say you've never focused on getting more AP from activites. Constantly having to use it when you get it, grinding out that next trait. But thats somehow less focused than making sure to log on every week? Seriously?

But AP on the other hand is that ever reliant grind, you focus on it because you have to get it to be viable. If you are going to try to argue that AK grind is worse than the AP grind.
Eh all this did is lowered the DR for time vs power gained, honestly i'd fine if it was 50 fine if it was 40 it just brings more why bother grinding my wep past lvl10 concord, atm vs 30 so gives us less to do, but i could see them bringing in lvl50 in Argus, so it does give us a breather to not grind mindlessly to 30 so soon, and gives us a chance to play alts lvl other weps and play other games COUGH COUGH DESTINY 2 COUGH COUGH kinda funny this happens right before it comes out lol
05/23/2017 11:52 AMPosted by Státìc
Players should change their perception of what Concordance is after the first point. The first point is the "end point" that players want. The second point and beyond is a trashcan which props up 1 and 2. Players should absolutely treat it like such.


That isn't an option for me. I need to have end points, my entire reason to play this game, to raid is to have an end point for an expansion. Bad enough the warforge system, I can never be fully BiS, maxed out, not possible to get any stronger depending on my level of raiding difficulty. This whole expansion tosses that idea out the door. I want to be able to say that Sevaira as a heroic raid character cannot possibly get any stronger than she is given the heroic content I use her in. To say she is effectively complete is my goal.
05/23/2017 11:28 AMPosted by Hrothknut
This dev team also seems to have a vendetta against alts for whatever reason that perplexes the heck out of me

Indeed.

And yet, directly from Ion: "If you only play one character, you're only seeing 1/12th of the content."

And also from Ion: "We don't see why Artifact Power should apply to all your specs."

It's like they hate the fact that I do want to play many other specs and play many other characters. But they can still recognize that if a person only plays one character, they are only seeing a small minority of the content.

It !@#$ing baffles me how this came to be.
...

Exactly! I am a couple of points into Concordance, and I am not at all grinding AP any more. It is both satisfying for me to get to that accomplishment, and a relief to know there's no point in actively pursuing it further.

I am not wiped out. I hit what was for me a meaningful goal, and now I'm free to move on to other things - this week I got two Glory mounts I'd long wanted, and I've started doing PvP dailies on my alt to get his PvP artifact skin.


So if players hit a point where they cannot complete before its obsolete, Why even bother having it ? When it could be a complete step for players to move on from.
It sounds like it added nothing to the game, But a bit of frustration to some players, if it is not even worth doing passed a point.


At this point I feel like we're debating on pure subjectivity.

Concordance was never intended to be completed, and I've never approached it that way, so I'm totally at peace with this shift making it a continual power benefit across the board for all players with only a minor difference between the top and bottom of its power curve. It felt like a satisfying accomplishment to me to hit that goal and now I'll happily, passively continue on that path upward. I am able to move on from it just fine, and it has added to the game for me, and will continue to do so.

If people are simply upset that something unable to be completed exists in the game, and don't like that design, I can't argue against your opinion.

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