Blizzard and professionalism

General Discussion
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05/23/2017 11:47 PMPosted by Rhondar
05/23/2017 10:49 PMPosted by Cronostrike
...

Not exactly. This is the equivalent of that customer coming in and saying "You have no selection!" and then having the employee say "Well you've only tried one thing on the menu when there is so much more!".

This isn't about changing the single recipe, it's about the customer not trying anything else on the menu at all and having this pointed out to them.


Yes. You are correct so - Mr/Mrs customer I understand how you feel about the change. Looking at your purchase history I see there are other items on the menu you have not tried.

Instead of, I am going to assume you are joking because looking at your armory you have completed 25% of Legion.

How about if the 25% he did complete he did not enjoy so sees no point in doing the rest of the 75%.

His initial comment was snarky yes but that and his completion history are moot points. The issue here is the response he received. It was sarcastic. I am pretty sure you speak sarcastically to a customer and you will be in hot water with your employer.


Trying barely anything and dismissing everything else because of the small taste you had when there's plenty more on the menu is what most people would consider a customer being difficult.

If a customer starts saying to the other customers hey there's nothing good here I'm fairly sure a chef will say hey that person only actually tried this and doesn't know what he's talking about, the selection is fine
I thought it was hilarious.

Moron makes groundless complaint, gets shut down. Case closed.
05/23/2017 11:40 PMPosted by Bogrum
The funny thing is Ornyx wasn't even right. If he had gone past the first page of the so-called snarky poster he would have seen that said poster had actually done a lot of content. How much do you have to do to have an opinion? Second, armory trolling is low effort douche baggery especially when you can't compare the trollers main because it's hidden.


Exactly. No need for a company spokesperson to engage in that behavior.
05/23/2017 11:44 PMPosted by Vandor
05/23/2017 11:40 PMPosted by Bogrum
The funny thing is Ornyx wasn't even right.


Actually he was.

Mass down-voting posts because you can't admit that doesn't make you right.


Actually no, he was wrong. And the mass down votes seem to be on the white knight side. But as pointed out by another poster (Tadge)

"Relena's armory says:

They have all reputations except Legionfall to exalted.
They made 35 turnins toward the Broken Shore buildings.
They hit Loremaster for Legion.
They did the nine-week Suramar Insurrection chain.
They skipped Trial of Valor, but completed both Emerald Nightmare and Nighthold (the front page only shows progress for that character, the actual achievements page shows they've done more with others).
They completed 8 of the 12 Mythic dungeons.
They completed the Order Hall campaigns on four different classes.

Yes, they're slacking on professions and haven't touched PVP or pet battles, but otherwise.. that looks like it should be more than just a quarter of Legion."
05/24/2017 12:00 AMPosted by Bearheart
05/23/2017 11:47 PMPosted by Rhondar
...

Yes. You are correct so - Mr/Mrs customer I understand how you feel about the change. Looking at your purchase history I see there are other items on the menu you have not tried.

Instead of, I am going to assume you are joking because looking at your armory you have completed 25% of Legion.

How about if the 25% he did complete he did not enjoy so sees no point in doing the rest of the 75%.

His initial comment was snarky yes but that and his completion history are moot points. The issue here is the response he received. It was sarcastic. I am pretty sure you speak sarcastically to a customer and you will be in hot water with your employer.


Trying barely anything and dismissing everything else because of the small taste you had when there's plenty more on the menu is what most people would consider a customer being difficult.

If a customer starts saying to the other customers hey there's nothing good here I'm fairly sure a chef will say hey that person only actually tried this and doesn't know what he's talking about, the selection is fine


And I do not disagree with you. However, Not the proper reply from a company spokesperson to a paying customer. If he has no other way to deal with a difficult customer then maybe social media is not the best fit wouldn't you think?
05/23/2017 11:12 PMPosted by Wanobi
05/23/2017 05:32 PMPosted by Promiseland
Is Blizzard not allowed to be honest?


They are...the problem is, they aren't.

Remember how 7.2 was supposed to be the "biggest patch ever?"

It's a good thing all this massive amount of content (the single weekly) didn't hit us at once.

The playerbase might have gotten completely overwhelmed by the vastness of it and not known what to do!

/sarcasm

05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
It's easy to delete a comment and move on, but it takes a lot more willpower to engage in a conversation, call out false statements (even if done half-assedly in a joking manner), and try to engage on the real issue.


If only that were the case. You can't really take the high road on that one, because you and your team has done just that on a number of occasions. How many "engaged conversations" got 404'd rather than you actually using "willpower to engage in a conversation" or "try and engage on the real issue?" How many more have gotten a snarky reply where you made fun of someone rather than answered the question at hand, or responded to some off hand comment in the thread and completely ignored the actual topic being discussed? The answer: far too many.

05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
Our team is not part of Customer Service, and we don't necessarily adhere to the same levels of 'professionalism' that they may in their day-to-day, and, even when we do, it's very much relaxed as it is in most of the industry.


You don't see many people in similar positions outright mocking people rather than addressing the points they make, making jokes about sexual assault, and the like, but I guess that's what passes for "relaxed" standards here.

Your team may not be a part of "customer service" but you seem to forget that you are dealing with customers who not only paid to play the game, but are paying to keep playing and post on the forums. As many others have already pointed out: your position comes with the responsibility to rise above and set examples for the community. If you choose (as one of its responsible for setting the tone) to act like the worst aspects of it, you tarnish your own reputation, the team you lead, and the company you work for.

05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
My goal here is first and foremost engagement and community-building, and I'm given free rein to do that as I see fit (albeit to my own pleasure and detriment).


So, how does "building community" get accomplished through snark, mocking people, evasiveness, ignoring direct questions put to you, and not getting back to people in a timely manner? The people in the diablo anniversary event thread are still waiting for you to return with answers, but since then you managed to continually find your way into the lounge threads to bump and extend them...while somehow missing that just about every CoC violation listed happens on a regular basis there.

05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
I appreciate everyone here who talks about their time in CS roles, I've had some experience in them myself, and I understand the difference of the role vs the audience in both capacities.


Clearly, you don't. "Community building" as you call it requires professionalism (more on that below), courtesy, respect, and working to establish trust with the people you want to build community with. Your stated goals and your actions couldn't be further apart, and the fact that you don't realize this only shows that you need to really reassess your approach and methodology.

05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
An interesting note, but I don't see our team as 'professional', in the sense that we uphold ourselves to some golden, glorious, corporate standard. I consider us 'experts' in our crafts, but nothing more than players who sit at the developer's table who have been given blue text and sometime receive emails with information that you may not see.


...and it shows in the quality and quantity of what we see here. Perhaps you should start applying some industry standards of professionalism to yourself and your staff...you might be surprised at the response you get.

05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
I think we can all stand to take and throw a few punches, and we'll all get along better if we have a bit of fun. :)


Perhaps, but if you want that "community" you're so keen on building you might want to be less about "throwing punches" and more about legitimate gestures of goodwill. Perhaps starting with actually engaging with people honestly and with less snark, rather than opening with some witty (to you) comment mocking someone who is bringing an issue here and hoping for a response. A bigger step would be actually stepping in on real issues and truly engaging, not just looking to score cheap points so you can avoid answering the hard questions.


INCREDIBLE
I mean if these replies don't paint the picture I do not know what does.

Great points by this poster.
This isn't a supermarket, the customer isn't always right
05/23/2017 08:45 PMPosted by Yana
Except there is no "valid concern" when you aren't even doing what's offered.
Just because you don't see the problem doesn't make it non-valid. Even if it did, assuming the poster's point was something completely useless and had no point, your championing Blizzard GM's acting condescending toward a player's point is truly invalid.

The poster felt they had a concern and voiced it. Your subjective judgement on how valid it is to you in no way justifies a response from a CM on the forums that makes a joke of that concern.

There were a dozen ways to get the same point across without starting out by making light of the player's comment to make their lack of content completion the focus of a taunt.

Whether the customer is describing a game breaking issue or a selfish rant on a personal level, a snide condescending remark is not the way a professional company representative should handle the situation.

I suspect that, as a customer of some company that has a customer service department, if you contacted them with something (no matter how petty) that you found concerning enough to make the contact, you would explode with rage when they made fun of you for calling to talk about it.

Professionalism is the responsibility of the company representative and not the customer. I cite the following as an example of what I mean as it is a perfect description of a professional attitude regarding dealing with obnoxious and belligerent customers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTh5JzRziHE
(***clip contains some mature language***)

Ornyx is arguably the best CM on the forums. Being human, they're capable of making mistakes. Championing their right to act in an unprofessional manor according to how a troll (or any poster) is acting is about like saying they need a conspiracy to help in a cover-up.

It isn't really big deal in that it was just something said in a way that should not have been used. Ornyx is better than that and has proven it time and again.

The thing I find the most disturbing is the number of people ranting about how treating people disrespectfully is OK if they started it. Have we all been trapped forever on the grade school playground?

Have a good night everyone.
I think he could have made his point more tactfully. Why resort to the old troll argument that unless you have every achieve, you have no right to complain?

I will NEVER have any pet battle achievements, and until they get rid of the new honor system, I wont have any more pvp achievements.

I still have an opinion on aspects of the game that I do use.

If that means I dont have a right to give feedback, they should make an achievement required to post on forums.

"Completed all content to CMs satisfaction" = unlocks forum criticism ability.

White knighting still wouldnt need any prereqs though.
Quick achievement stalking of the poster shows that they've done Nighthold on another character, most mythic dungeons, and the majority of quest content in Legion.

Seems like far more than 25% to me.
Lol. People calling this an "attack on players" need to go back to their safe space.
05/24/2017 12:00 AMPosted by Rhondar
05/23/2017 11:57 PMPosted by Kaendris
...

Wrong.


So you feel it is ok for an employer to speak sarcastically and in an antagonizing manner to a customer?


Yeah, it's okay that a forum moderator makes a snarky comment to someone. God forbid someone joke around anymore these days.
Grow up, seriously. This isn't even unprofessional.

From the comment, it seems like someone was talking smack about the content in which they haven't even explored the entire content so he pulled out statistics. Well done @Orynx

Play the content first before being so quick to judge.

Again, grow up.
05/24/2017 12:20 AMPosted by Dìonysus
Grow up, seriously. This isn't even unprofessional.

From the comment, it seems like someone was talking smack about the content in which they haven't even explored the entire content so he pulled out statistics. Well done @Orynx

Play the content first before being so quick to judge.

Again, grow up.


No, they hadn't done 100% of the content but they had done a significant amount, more than 25% Ornyx claimed when he armory trolled the guy.
05/23/2017 05:31 PMPosted by Fairaday
Got to admit - that comment definitely made me feel that my posts aren't valued - no matter how cogent, reasonable and applicable they might be - unless I have the "right" amount of achieves, raid bosses, etc.
I'm not unsubbing over it - but I agree it was unprofessional.


you can be as cogent, reasonable and rational as you want. makes it easier to tell when what you're saying is cogently, reasonably, and rationally incorrect due to your lack of progression.
05/24/2017 12:24 AMPosted by Bogrum
No, they hadn't done 100% of the content but they had done a significant amount, more than 25% Ornyx claimed when he armory trolled the guy.


only 4/10 nighthold LFR and 7/7 Nightmare LFR
1 Lv25 pet
Honor Lv16 with 10 HKs and Prestige 0

this person clearly barely plays the game
05/24/2017 12:15 AMPosted by Jessekin
If that means I dont have a right to give feedback, they should make an achievement required to post on forums.


Except if you actually read, posting feedback isn't what the post was about.

But clearly, you're more interested in making posts that generate likes instead of facts. So keep at it.

Edit: Well, that wasn't entirely correct of me. It is about feedback, but not in the way that's causing people to parrot this stupid "Hur dur I need achieves to post hur dur dur"
05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
My comment to the player was only pointing out facts, albeit in a snarky way not unknown to the forums.

And here lies the problem as some see it.

In Scenario A, the player was a troll trying to get a reaction - something they accomplished by getting a CM to get snarky and defensive.

In Scenario B, the player has legitimate issues with the content offered and simply voiced that non-constructively - and still got a snarky, defensive response.

It was the type of comment that ideally should have been left alone to begin with, but failing that, should have been responded to in a manner to turn the train of discussion into something constructive, rather than just armory "stalking" the guy to tell him he's wrong and his opinion doesn't matter.

05/23/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Ornyx
It's easy to delete a comment and move on, but it takes a lot more willpower to engage in a conversation, call out false statements (even if done half-assedly in a joking manner), and try to engage on the real issue.

You didn't engage in a conversation to reach the real issue - you made a half-sarcastic / half-serious joke to shut down someone's point. You didn't open any dialogue, you did the opposite.

I generally like you Ornyx, I like seeing blues actually communicate with us on the forums, and generally you're pretty good about it, but the last couple nights haven't been great. It isn't just this post being quoted here, either.
05/24/2017 12:33 AMPosted by Eilinasia
You didn't engage in a conversation to reach the real issue - you made a half-sarcastic / half-serious joke to shut down someone's point. You didn't open any dialogue, you did the opposite.


for someone that did the opposite of open the dialogue, he sure did an awful job of it by having the conversation STILL going on.

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