Is it time for Balance of Power in LFR?

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I do, yes. Very much so. LFR doesn't require any social interaction, making my anxiety levels a lot lower in LFR.


What social interaction do you imagine actually goes on in normal raids? You can very likely get away with not having your chat visible and you won't be asked to get in voice. LFR is way more of a toxic cesspool than normal+.

I also don't get how you can have thousands and thousands of posts where you are constantly being judged, ridiculed and talked down to but the mere thought of joining a normal raid in WoW makes you 'shake.'

The stuff you say/do is so inconsistent. At this point I'm 99% sure you try to milk your 'anxiety disorder' for everything it is worth so that other people do everything for you IRL and try to use it as a reason to over reward your 'preferred' way to play a video game.
05/13/2017 03:07 PMPosted by Targon
05/13/2017 02:47 PMPosted by Thrasius
How the hell is it possible that so many people have such crippling anxiety that they can't raid or need normal people to make umpteenth different accommodations for them? Why would these people with such crippling anxiety choose to play a game based around social groups and team work?

I mean, if you can't swim you don't join the Navy. If blood grosses you out you don't become a surgeon. If you're scared of heights don't be a window cleaner. If your anxiety is so bad, maybe don't play the most social genre of all video games? And if you do, be considerate of normal people and don't try to make the game less social?

And this isn't just Pouncey, I see this on reddit, on other forums, trade chat... Like, how?


I have to agree with this. I have no idea why someone who doesn't want to group would even play this game. WoW without group content is a miserable experience to me, a worse version of open world single-player RPGs like Skyrim or TW3.

I mean, people are free to do whatever they want, but it's kinda the same as if someone with an amputated arm wanted to play a fast-paced FPS like Doom, or worse demanded that the game be slowed down for everyone so they can compete. I'm sorry, it's not your fault or anything, but the genre simply isn't made to accommodate people with your handicap.


People with social anxiety want to be sociable and talk to people. It's something we WANT to do. But our anxiety causes problems with actually doing that normally.

The medium of communication affects the anxiety. Voice communications without being face to face, such as voice comms or the telephone, are the worst since we can't detect body language. Face to face is noticeably better than that. But text communication is AMAZING for people with social anxiety, because of the ability to edit messages before sending them, the ability to come and go freely, the non-personal effect of only seeing words on a screen, etc. The Internet involves tons of text-based communication, so it makes it an ideal place for people with social anxiety to socialize.

People who are disabled, especially those who are house-bound, tend to have lots of free time, and need something to fill it. They also need something they can do to feel a sense of accomplishment and achievement. MMOs are games that are easy to sink a hell of a lot of time into, and they come with a sense of accomplishment from doing things in the game. MMOs fill two massive voids in a disabled person's life.

MMOs aren't the anathema of crippling social anxiety. MMOs are the perfect video game for people with crippling social anxiety.
it really doesn't. You actually don't have to give your medical history to anyone as reasons for not wanting to do something.


What lie should I use when they ask directly about my reasons, then?

well, you're welcome to prefer it, but I hope they don't change it. Not everything should be obtainable via LFR.


I hope they do change it. But it's up to Blizzard to decide. And I don't see why I should stop asking for something that would make the game better for me just because it would make it worse for you.
No crap it shouldn't change just for me. I agree with that. But there are other reasons to prefer LFR than anxiety, they're just not the reasons why I, personally, myself, as ONE person, prefer LFR.


It doesn't matter what people's reasons are for preferring to do LFR it doesn't justify putting BoP drops in LFR. It is a non sequitur. People have told you this many times.

A. If I prefer normal raiding then gladiator mounts should be the reward for normal raiding.

B. If I prefer LFR then BoP should be a reward for LFR.

Neither A or B is logical.
I don't get why Balance of Power is blocking a row of appearances that don't require organized raiding.

That remains one of the stupidest decisions Blizzard ever made.

Hell, I don't get why we could spend two expansions working on legendaries in LFR but suddenly a mere cosmetic appearance requires organized raiding. You'd think it would be the other way around, but apparently not.

I am imagining a meeting of the raid teams determining what can and can't be done in raids, and Ion is watching LFR get tier sets and trinkets again, and he just keeps clinging to the Balance of Power skin like a security blanket for his elitism. "There, there Watcher, you just hold onto that...no, no, we're not going to force people to do Tomb of Sargeras for flying, but don't worry, you still have Balance of Power, have a cookie."
05/13/2017 03:28 PMPosted by Arryk
I don't get why Balance of Power is blocking a row of appearances that don't require organized raiding.

That remains one of the stupidest decisions Blizzard ever made.

Hell, I don't get why we could spend two expansions working on legendaries in LFR but suddenly a mere cosmetic appearance requires organized raiding. You'd think it would be the other way around, but apparently not.

I am imagining a meeting of the raid teams determining what can and can't be done in raids, and Ion is watching LFR get tier sets and trinkets again, and he just keeps clinging to the Balance of Power skin like a security blanket for his elitism. "There, there Watcher, you just hold onto that...no, no, we're not going to force people to do Tomb of Sargeras for flying, but don't worry, you still have Balance of Power, have a cookie."


Everything in the BoP line of skins requires you to use the group finder. It has nothing to do with lording it over LFR players. That is just you projecting again. You don't need to feel inferior over this. Honestly, you don't.
No. Raiders have this one last thing going for them. LFR casual fails don't deserve any handouts
05/13/2017 03:24 PMPosted by Pouncey
I hope they do change it. But it's up to Blizzard to decide. And I don't see why I should stop asking for something that would make the game better for me just because it would make it worse for you.


Now I see why you've had bad normal mode experiences. Oi.
05/13/2017 04:00 PMPosted by Shadina
05/13/2017 03:24 PMPosted by Pouncey
I hope they do change it. But it's up to Blizzard to decide. And I don't see why I should stop asking for something that would make the game better for me just because it would make it worse for you.


Now I see why you've had bad normal mode experiences. Oi.


I noticed you're okay with making the game better for you even though it makes it worse for me. Let's not pretend you're any better than I am.

05/13/2017 03:28 PMPosted by Arryk
I don't get why Balance of Power is blocking a row of appearances that don't require organized raiding.

That remains one of the stupidest decisions Blizzard ever made.

Hell, I don't get why we could spend two expansions working on legendaries in LFR but suddenly a mere cosmetic appearance requires organized raiding. You'd think it would be the other way around, but apparently not.

I am imagining a meeting of the raid teams determining what can and can't be done in raids, and Ion is watching LFR get tier sets and trinkets again, and he just keeps clinging to the Balance of Power skin like a security blanket for his elitism. "There, there Watcher, you just hold onto that...no, no, we're not going to force people to do Tomb of Sargeras for flying, but don't worry, you still have Balance of Power, have a cookie."


The way Blizzard designed the appearances for artifacts wasn't to have 6 models and 4 different colors of each model. They instead made 6 variant weapons, and then created 3 recolors of each of those variants. It seems like an irrelevant distinction, but what it means is that there is a "default" color scheme for each tier of appearances, and then the other appearances are modifications to that default. This difference allowed them to rationalize requiring the unlock of the default before you can get any of the other colors, since they're thinking of it as unlocking the weapon and then unlocking customizations for that weapon.

It only seems weird if you treat each appearance as its own thing.

And the reason you don't notice it for the other tiers is because the PvE tier is the only one where you can unlock a recolor before the default, because of how the unlocks work. (the Hidden appearances are exempt to the normal unlock rules, which was the result of a bug, but then Blizzard kept that bug around since they decided they liked it that way)
05/13/2017 04:22 PMPosted by Pouncey
And the reason you don't notice it for the other tiers is because the PvE tier is the only one where you can unlock a recolor before the default, because of how the unlocks work. (the Hidden appearances are exempt to the normal unlock rules, which was the result of a bug, but then Blizzard kept that bug around since they decided they liked it that way)


Not true. Both 2nd and 3rd tier can have tint unlocked before the main appearance. Even more so that now we can get to 25 AK very fast, unlocking all traits and artifact lore before you finish the class campaign. And the This Side Up achievement tint is account wide.
05/13/2017 04:40 PMPosted by Taliao
05/13/2017 04:22 PMPosted by Pouncey
And the reason you don't notice it for the other tiers is because the PvE tier is the only one where you can unlock a recolor before the default, because of how the unlocks work. (the Hidden appearances are exempt to the normal unlock rules, which was the result of a bug, but then Blizzard kept that bug around since they decided they liked it that way)


Not true. Both 2nd and 3rd tier can have tint unlocked before the main appearance. Even more so that now we can get to 25 AK very fast, unlocking all traits and artifact lore before you finish the class campaign. And the This Side Up achievement tint is account wide.


I stand corrected.
05/13/2017 03:22 PMPosted by Pouncey
05/13/2017 03:07 PMPosted by Targon
...

I have to agree with this. I have no idea why someone who doesn't want to group would even play this game. WoW without group content is a miserable experience to me, a worse version of open world single-player RPGs like Skyrim or TW3.

I mean, people are free to do whatever they want, but it's kinda the same as if someone with an amputated arm wanted to play a fast-paced FPS like Doom, or worse demanded that the game be slowed down for everyone so they can compete. I'm sorry, it's not your fault or anything, but the genre simply isn't made to accommodate people with your handicap.


People with social anxiety want to be sociable and talk to people. It's something we WANT to do. But our anxiety causes problems with actually doing that normally.

The medium of communication affects the anxiety. Voice communications without being face to face, such as voice comms or the telephone, are the worst since we can't detect body language. Face to face is noticeably better than that. But text communication is AMAZING for people with social anxiety, because of the ability to edit messages before sending them, the ability to come and go freely, the non-personal effect of only seeing words on a screen, etc. The Internet involves tons of text-based communication, so it makes it an ideal place for people with social anxiety to socialize.

People who are disabled, especially those who are house-bound, tend to have lots of free time, and need something to fill it. They also need something they can do to feel a sense of accomplishment and achievement. MMOs are games that are easy to sink a hell of a lot of time into, and they come with a sense of accomplishment from doing things in the game. MMOs fill two massive voids in a disabled person's life.

MMOs aren't the anathema of crippling social anxiety. MMOs are the perfect video game for people with crippling social anxiety.


Well first, only fools require anyone to use voice comms in N EN or Nighthold pugs. You can very easily get by with text only, and many runs of these places these days are AP runs that crash through the place pretty easily and don't worry too much about performance.

Second, it still doesn't feel like the sort of game you should play. Games like GTA or Skyrim offer tons of content without any required social interaction, that sounds more up your alley to be honest. End of the day, this game requires you to interact with people unless you decide to play 100% solo for some reason, which means you could face disagreeable persons or jerks. And frankly it doesn't look like you can handle it.

And third, I still don't see why the game needs to bend to your needs so much. Especially for what is at the end of the day a skin in a video game. It's a reward for organized raiding. Raid in an organized way and get a skin, do not raid in an organized way and get no skin. This is not a punishment in any way, just like I'm not being ''punished'' by not having the rarest battle pets in the game because I decide not to pursue them.

This is the last I'll say on the subject. I understand you have a disability, but that doesn't mean Blizzard should redesign their game around it. If you refuse to do a content, you don't get a cosmetic reward that goes with said content. That is perfectly reasonable.
05/13/2017 04:46 PMPosted by Targon
05/13/2017 03:22 PMPosted by Pouncey
...

People with social anxiety want to be sociable and talk to people. It's something we WANT to do. But our anxiety causes problems with actually doing that normally.

The medium of communication affects the anxiety. Voice communications without being face to face, such as voice comms or the telephone, are the worst since we can't detect body language. Face to face is noticeably better than that. But text communication is AMAZING for people with social anxiety, because of the ability to edit messages before sending them, the ability to come and go freely, the non-personal effect of only seeing words on a screen, etc. The Internet involves tons of text-based communication, so it makes it an ideal place for people with social anxiety to socialize.

People who are disabled, especially those who are house-bound, tend to have lots of free time, and need something to fill it. They also need something they can do to feel a sense of accomplishment and achievement. MMOs are games that are easy to sink a hell of a lot of time into, and they come with a sense of accomplishment from doing things in the game. MMOs fill two massive voids in a disabled person's life.

MMOs aren't the anathema of crippling social anxiety. MMOs are the perfect video game for people with crippling social anxiety.


Well first, only fools require anyone to use voice comms in N EN or Nighthold pugs. You can very easily get by with text only, and many runs of these places these days are AP runs that crash through the place pretty easily and don't worry too much about performance.

Second, it still doesn't feel like the sort of game you should play. Games like GTA or Skyrim offer tons of content without any required social interaction, that sounds more up your alley to be honest. End of the day, this game requires you to interact with people unless you decide to play 100% solo for some reason, which means you could face disagreeable persons or jerks. And frankly it doesn't look like you can handle it.

And third, I still don't see why the game needs to bend to your needs so much. Especially for what is at the end of the day a skin in a video game. It's a reward for organized raiding. Raid in an organized way and get a skin, do not raid in an organized way and get no skin. This is not a punishment in any way, just like I'm not being ''punished'' by not having the rarest battle pets in the game because I decide not to pursue them.

This is the last I'll say on the subject. I understand you have a disability, but that doesn't mean Blizzard should redesign their game around it. If you refuse to do a content, you don't get a cosmetic reward that goes with said content. That is perfectly reasonable.


Dude, it's fine if you don't understand, just stop trying to pretend that you do.
05/13/2017 03:22 PMPosted by Pouncey
People with social anxiety want to be sociable and talk to people. It's something we WANT to do. But our anxiety causes problems with actually doing that normally.


Social anxiety keeps getting brought up when discussing random que content. From those that I personally know with severe versions of such disorders, random or unfamiliar elements simply exacerbate their issues not soothe them in any way.

What portion of the community do you believe has such sever forms of social anxiety, anyway?
I believe outliers or special cases don't belong as the center piece in such a generalized discussion as this.
Start your own discussion centered on them if you want to bring in and discuss such unique circumstances.

As far as this thread is concerned, we are talking about the average player.
The average player, who dictated by the laws of probability doesn't suffer from such conditions.

Be it text or voice these people, with symptoms so severe they present real problems when they attempt to function in even casual no pressure social situations, do not deal well with strangers or the unknown. Peroid. Such individuals would most certainly run from this game, rather than attempt to pick it up. They would not willingly put themselves in such an uncomfortable position.
Someone would literally have to be forcing them to play for them to show up here. It would not be a voluntary decision. . . which isn't a smart move by either party.
[Pretty sure it's 99% impossible to even start Balance of Power unless you have a guild specifically running EN now. No one runs EN anymore. The gear is terrible, the ilvl is worse, and in 2 months when Tomb is out, any small fraction of EN runs that exist will no longer exist at all.


Wrong. People run EN all the time. Speed runs for AP and chance at legendaries, plus running alts.
05/13/2017 11:15 PMPosted by Farfalle
[Pretty sure it's 99% impossible to even start Balance of Power unless you have a guild specifically running EN now. No one runs EN anymore. The gear is terrible, the ilvl is worse, and in 2 months when Tomb is out, any small fraction of EN runs that exist will no longer exist at all.


Wrong. People run EN all the time. Speed runs for AP and chance at legendaries, plus running alts.


At this point, it's simply laziness. People will get balance of power if they quit complaining on the forums and spend an hour in a farm group. It's that simple.
Account wide rather than make it LFR
05/13/2017 11:02 PMPosted by Whitecrow
05/13/2017 03:22 PMPosted by Pouncey
People with social anxiety want to be sociable and talk to people. It's something we WANT to do. But our anxiety causes problems with actually doing that normally.


Social anxiety keeps getting brought up when discussing random que content. From those that I personally know with sever versions of such disorders, random or unfamiliar elements simply exacerbate their issues not soothe them in any way.

What portion of the community do you believe has such sever forms of social anxiety, anyway?
I believe outliers or special cases don't belong as the center piece in such a generalized discussion as this.
Start your own discussion centered on them if you want to bring in and discuss such unique circumstances.

As far as this thread is concerned, we are talking about the average player.
The average player, who dictated by the laws of probability doesn't suffer from such conditions.

Be it text or voice these people, with symptoms so severe they present real problems when they attempt to function in even casual no pressure social situations, do not deal well with strangers or the unknown. Peroid. Such individuals would most certainly run from this game, rather than attempt to pick it up. They would not willingly put themselves in such an uncomfortable position.
Someone would literally have to be forcing them to play for them to show up here. It would not be a voluntary decision. . . which isn't a smart move by either party.


It's confusing how you spend so much time talking about anxiety but also insist that the discussion not involve any talk about anxiety.

So, back on topic.

Really, I don't think that pre-made groups really deserve a special reward for avoiding the matchmaker. You can get Balance of Power done in a Normal mode PUG, and there's nothing inherently difficult or special about joining a Normal mode PUG. You open up PGF, select the raid you want to do, apply to every group until one accepts you, accept the summons, and then do the raid (which from what I've heard, is so mind-bogglingly easy on Normal that any random idiot can do it without any trouble, so there's no inherent difficulty to reward either).

There's nothing to reward there. Nothing deserving of special recognition. You wanna talk about handouts in LFR? Let's also talk about handouts for pushing a few buttons to apply to groups and accept summons.
Only if they remove tier and trinkets from LFR.
05/14/2017 12:45 AMPosted by Corona
Only if they remove tier and trinkets from LFR.


By "tier" do you mean the set bonuses? If so, may I suggest a compromise of retaining the set bonuses but having LFR tier not interact with Normal, Heroic and Mythic tier sets? That way you won't be able to fill in tier set bonuses with LFR gear. This would make it so that you wouldn't have to run LFR for set bonuses, but people who prefer LFR would still be able to get those set bonuses.

As for trinkets, maybe just nerf the LFR versions a bit more if they're still causing those issues.

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