Paragon Caches are Incredibly Disappointing

General Discussion
I've opened ~20 paragon caches at this point. So far I've only received order hall resources, gold, and maybe a curious coin or two. I haven't gotten any other rewards. No pets, no mounts, no gear, no toys, nothing. Before 7.2 launched, I was really excited about the paragon tier caches, thrilled to have a reason to do lots of world quests and eager to earn some cool mounts, pets, or toys.

I understand that paragon caches are just "bonuses" but gating unique mounts behind them has encouraged me and other players to do more world quests in hopes of receiving a reward. Before, when I did world quests, I knew exactly what my rewards would be and I'd do the ones that interested me.

Now, I do more world quests in hopes of filling that paragon bar up and getting one of the honestly really cool mounts they reward. When I open a paragon cache and get gold or resources, I don't feel excited, I feel almost sick, like I've just wasted a lot of time doing world quests for nothing.

Something needs to be done to make this system fun, and not punishing and miserable. Either we need a bad luck protection mechanic to make the rewards more likely to drop on subsequent chests, the random rewards need to be improved, or there needs to be an alternative way to obtain them - perhaps they're for sale at Exalted, but somewhat expensive?

I really hope Blizzard is reading this. I know my sample pool is small, but no one in my guild except the most lucky players are enjoying the paragon caches in their current implementation.
I'm at 70 exalted reps so I don't mind grinding rep and I don't mind doing the WQ's for resources (even tho I have more than I can use at this point) and AP. What is missing is the feeling that you are working towards something.

1. Tell me how much rep I'm getting when I gain rep. This nebulous "your rep has increased" crap is silly.

2. Give the Paragon Caches as mini rewards for meeting the next exalted point and perhaps make the 5th one on each faction have a higher chance at the mount.

3. Give the Pargon Caches as mini rewards for grinding and award the mount at the 10th exalted rep point on each faction.

Working towards RNG is unfufilling even for those who don't mind grinding out rep, I can't imagine how it feels to those who hate grinding for anything.
Bad luck protection isn't enough. We used to get mounts for getting exalted with a faction.

If Blizzard wants to make us grind more, fine. Let us get mounts with something like 25,000 additional rep.

Just make it something clear and achievable.

A goal.

Not yet another endless, RNG-filled grindfest. I think everyone has had enough of that.
It really is not fun to have these mounts gated behind this kind of rep farm RNG. It's bad enough when the RNG for mounts is incredibly high, hiding it behind hundreds of WQ for a chance at a mount is not fun. Very much reminds me of the farm to get the sandstone drake recipe before you could buy fragments from vendors.
I think you've all said something more succinctly than I did.

What is frustrating about the paragon caches is that as a player I'm not working towards a goal. I'm working for weeks towards a pull of a slot machine with apparently low chances of rewarding anything. It's frustrating.
Running ICC every week for Invincible's reins was also a grindfest.
05/11/2017 09:31 AMPosted by Beefpotato
Running ICC every week for Invincible's reins was also a grindfest.


It totally was, but it's customary and expected for mounts to have a low percentage chance to drop from the last boss of a raid tier. It also takes less than an hour each week to run an old raid.

The nature of world quests means it will take weeks to grind up a single paragon cache, no matter what level the player is who attempts them.
05/11/2017 09:08 AMPosted by Dahlia
but gating unique mounts behind them

Wondered how long it would take before the post got all entitled. Didn't take too long.
05/11/2017 09:35 AMPosted by Calqulon
05/11/2017 09:08 AMPosted by Dahlia
but gating unique mounts behind them

Wondered how long it would take before the post got all entitled. Didn't take too long.


Is it entitled to say something is bad game design? No one is entitled to receive any mount or in-game reward, but we are all entitled to have an opinion about what is and isn't fun or rewarding gameplay. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
[quote="207532776561"]Is it entitled to say something is bad game design? No one is entitled to receive any mount or in-game reward, but we are all entitled to have an opinion about what is and isn't fun or rewarding gameplay. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

It was a combination of your tone and general whining in your post. Especially the crying and "feeling sick" about how you wasted your time because you did not get your reward instantly. Unless you intended to sound like a child. If so, spot on!
[quote]Is it entitled to say something is bad game design? No one is entitled to receive any mount or in-game reward, but we are all entitled to have an opinion about what is and isn't fun or rewarding gameplay. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

It was a combination of your tone and general whining in your post. Especially the crying and "feeling sick" about how you wasted your time because you did not get your reward instantly. Unless you intended to sound like a child. If so, spot on!


When I feel like I've wasted a lot of time on something for nothing, I legitimately do feel sick to my stomach. I think there's a lot of room between over a months worth of world quests for 0 rewards and getting my rewards "instantly" as you put it. I also didn't claim I'd cried because of the experience. I encourage you to re-read my post and the others in this topic, as it seems you have a false impression of what we've written.

Up until now, everyone here has shared their thoughts on how to improve paragon cache design civilly, respectfully, and without hyperbole. I hope you will express your opinions with the same care.
They are faction mounts. Up until Legion, factions mounts could be purchased once you hit exalted. And I did that on various toons throughout all the xpacs.

But now they are a crapshoot for every extra 10K rep you get after hitting exalted.
Why ? Why the change now ? Is it to keep people subbed and playing old content over and over and over every single day ?

Sure I understand rng. i've farmed dungeons over and over for that mount drop.
But now they've put the rng into things you used to do knowing there was an end, a reward for all that work.

I don't like playing a game where almost everything is rng based.
The rng stuff used to be optional content that folks chased after. Now rng is embedded into everyday game play.

The mounts I've acquired in legion were definite rewards for doing something.
The faction rng mounts..I'm not chasing, just like I'm not chasing AP or forged gear from WQ anymore.
05/11/2017 09:08 AMPosted by Dahlia
Something needs to be done to make this system fun, and not punishing and miserable.


Its kind of always the same isn't it?

People create expectations that Paragon chests are there for those items specifically, then when you discover those items are, in fact, rare and that paragon chests are really just a way to get extra reward for continuing to WQ's - all of a sudden its punishing and miserable.

If folks learned to reset their own expectations to something reasonable then you'd probably be having a lot more fun.
05/11/2017 10:34 AMPosted by Brockthorn
I don't like playing a game where almost everything is rng based.


Sort of like almost the entirety of WoW since its inception, then.
I mean couldn't you have seen this coming with how disappointing this expansion has been?
05/11/2017 10:40 AMPosted by Mvura
05/11/2017 10:34 AMPosted by Brockthorn
I don't like playing a game where almost everything is rng based.


Sort of like almost the entirety of WoW since its inception, then.


Nope. There's a lot in wow that is not rng based.

Mounts from achievements. Mounts from PVP. All past rep based faction mounts.

What if all of them had been rng based ?

And for the rng based mounts..doing a raid once per week is not the same as doing daily quests over and over and over every day.
05/11/2017 09:35 AMPosted by Calqulon
05/11/2017 09:08 AMPosted by Dahlia
but gating unique mounts behind them

Wondered how long it would take before the post got all entitled. Didn't take too long.


Some people like to use the world "entitled" without even bothering to know the definition of it. The OP is doing world quests with factions he/she has already grinded to exalted with and is continuing said grind in the hopes of a reward that justifies the effort. I didn't see anything in the OP that suggested logging on meant they'd get a reward.
WoW has lost a lot of "time spent = reward" mentality.

One of my favourite examples of this was Valor Tokens dropping from raid bosses with a large list of purchasable gear. That way if you came out of a raid that night with nothing you knew you were closer to that awesome piece on the vendor for all your hard work.

Goals in this game need to be transparent and achievable over time. Not random and immediate or never.
05/11/2017 10:54 AMPosted by Rokhstrom
WoW has lost a lot of "time spent = reward" mentality.

One of my favourite examples of this was Valor Tokens dropping from raid bosses with a large list of purchasable gear. That way if you came out of a raid that night with nothing you knew you were closer to that awesome piece on the vendor for all your hard work.

Goals in this game need to be transparent and achievable over time. Not random and immediate or never.


You had the same with honor/conquest and the pvp vendor.
You kept at it slowly accumulating the currency knowing exactly what you could buy with it at the end.
If they wanted to add a grind after exalted, they should have gone full Argent Tournament.

How it should have worked:

-7.2 should have had a new currency. (The Argent Tournament had Champion Seals, so let's call this version Paragon Seals.)

-Paragon Seals are only available from Paragon Caches. Every cache has a 100% chance to drop 1, and a rare chance to drop 2-3.

-Mounts, toys, pets, etc, are all available from faction vendors for 10 Paragon Seals.

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