How can 900+ DPS not even do 300k ST?

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Ilevel means nothing with these new M+ loot adjustments. People getting 900+ gear for doing virtually nothing of any consequence. Titanforging. Saw some guy get a 920 from a M+0. Free 900 loot handed out from Broken Chore bosses. Getting carried just because you have a certain key and then getting gear from that carry. None of these things improve the player, they just improve the gear the player wears. So you have the same players who have no idea how to play in gear that took almost no skill to earn.

I actually inspect everyone before I approve them. If they do not have 4pc Heroic NH+ gear and proper itemization I dis invite them. Usually classes stack 2 stats max. If their gear is all over the place, it is a clear sign they suck and are just looking to get into a group to get carried.
05/17/2017 02:13 PMPosted by Levie
Being well itemized with stats can make a massive difference. I see people still glowing over ilvl and ignoring the stats. Also - Timing. Knowing when and how to use abilities for maximum effect. Dungeon familiarity helps so much.


nah, i do more than 300k on my ilvl 845 hunter that hit 110 2 days ago.

@OP, just check warcraftlogs for EVERY player you invite, not parsing average 90th+ on heroic? dont invite. You'll be surprised if you check logs more often how many players are 900+ grey parsing every fight in heroic NH.
Poor itemization does not lead to a 900+ person doing 300k. People were doing well over that in EN with a single legendary.

My 880 alt warrior who hit 110 last Sunday and is wearing whatever he gets his hands on does over 400k, and that's 100k below what he sims.

Some people are just bad and that's all there is to it.
05/17/2017 02:48 PMPosted by Equitis
Something called ramp up time
I run into this all the time, even on my Destruction spec. I love my Affliction spec to pieces, but I switched over to Destro because I needed to learn it in order to do better dps.

But ramp up is still an issue, regardless of spec used. The problem I've run into a lot is you get situated and start your ramp up abilities, then the mechanics say "MOVE" which blows whatever ramp up credit you have to bits.

If some of these specs would allow for casting "on the move" I think a lot of dps would be better. But its a fine line for a lot of players. I still haven't found the sweet spot for my toons, but I do tend to start out immediately by casing UA or Seeds on my Afflic. That does help some.
05/17/2017 02:15 PMPosted by Lockoclock
Depends on how quick you kill everything. If you pull big groups of people, and they die in a global then I don't do much as an affliction lock.

I've had a few dungeon runs with friends where they'd make a huge pull of something like the crabs/slimes in EOA, and then aoe them down before I can even cast a SOC.

Made up for it on bosses though.

Generally if it dies in a few seconds my dps doesn't have a chance to really do anything.

No idea about other classes though.


I always feel bad for them
05/17/2017 02:39 PMPosted by Spektro
1) Properly itemized gear.
2) Tier set bonuses.
3) Good Trinkets.
4) Proper Legendary items.
5) Third Relic Slot.
6) Proper amount of Artifact traits (36+, ideally 43+)


1) won't have that much of an impact. Properly itemized is good, raw budget can trump it, gonna have to sim to find out.

2), 3) 4) are all good answers. This is where your major gains in DPS come from actually.

5) and 6) are literally given to you now. You get the 3rd relic slot about 6-7 hours after hitting 110.
05/17/2017 02:15 PMPosted by Lockoclock
Depends on how quick you kill everything. If you pull big groups of people, and they die in a global then I don't do much as an affliction lock.

I've had a few dungeon runs with friends where they'd make a huge pull of something like the crabs/slimes in EOA, and then aoe them down before I can even cast a SOC.

Made up for it on bosses though.

Generally if it dies in a few seconds my dps doesn't have a chance to really do anything.

No idea about other classes though.


Yeah this is all very true, it honestly makes you feel stupid sometimes when you cast seed into a pack but the melee are in there smashing 1M+ dps before your first one even explodes, sometimes it explodes as the last 10% is being cleaned up. Only comfort is knowing that you have a chance to redeem yourself on boss fights.
When will people accept that ilvl has never, and i mean never, been a reliable indicator of performance??
05/17/2017 02:15 PMPosted by Lockoclock
Depends on how quick you kill everything. If you pull big groups of people, and they die in a global then I don't do much as an affliction lock.

I've had a few dungeon runs with friends where they'd make a huge pull of something like the crabs/slimes in EOA, and then aoe them down before I can even cast a SOC.

Made up for it on bosses though.

Generally if it dies in a few seconds my dps doesn't have a chance to really do anything.

No idea about other classes though.


Same here for my mage. I switched from fire to frost because at least it slows down the mobs for others, if they live long enough to slow down.
It's because people who don't normally do difficult or challenging content can easily get similar i-levels to mythic raid gear. This expansion more than any other you can't judge a person by their level of the gear.
Y'all r making it too complicated. They wuz drunk.

It's the simplest answer, and therefore most likely to be true.
05/17/2017 02:58 PMPosted by Dominates
Ilevel means nothing with these new M+ loot adjustments. People getting 900+ gear for doing virtually nothing of any consequence. Titanforging. Saw some guy get a 920 from a M+0. Free 900 loot handed out from Broken Chore bosses. Getting carried just because you have a certain key and then getting gear from that carry. None of these things improve the player, they just improve the gear the player wears. So you have the same players who have no idea how to play in gear that took almost no skill to earn.

I actually inspect everyone before I approve them. If they do not have 4pc Heroic NH+ gear and proper itemization I dis invite them. Usually classes stack 2 stats max. If their gear is all over the place, it is a clear sign they suck and are just looking to get into a group to get carried.

brah, where's your enchantments?
05/17/2017 02:13 PMPosted by Levie
Being well itemized with stats can make a massive difference. I see people still glowing over ilvl and ignoring the stats. Also - Timing. Knowing when and how to use abilities for maximum effect. Dungeon familiarity helps so much.


None of this is excusable, for any DPS spec, at 900 ilev. The expectation by the OP to do 300k DPS on a single target is doable at 850, even with poor itemization, as long as the play is correct.

Even with "poor" play, and itemization, at 900 ilev, any spec is able to easily be doing 500k.

People who don't understand their spec are the only ones who won't be doing at least those levels of damage. None of this post was meant to be condescending at all, for those who assume it is, it's just facts.
obv not trying
05/17/2017 03:52 PMPosted by Praying
05/17/2017 02:58 PMPosted by Dominates
Ilevel means nothing with these new M+ loot adjustments. People getting 900+ gear for doing virtually nothing of any consequence. Titanforging. Saw some guy get a 920 from a M+0. Free 900 loot handed out from Broken Chore bosses. Getting carried just because you have a certain key and then getting gear from that carry. None of these things improve the player, they just improve the gear the player wears. So you have the same players who have no idea how to play in gear that took almost no skill to earn.

I actually inspect everyone before I approve them. If they do not have 4pc Heroic NH+ gear and proper itemization I dis invite them. Usually classes stack 2 stats max. If their gear is all over the place, it is a clear sign they suck and are just looking to get into a group to get carried.

brah, where's your enchantments?


Alt Number 5 Bruv. Zero Ehf's Given. I don't even raid on him anymore. I do a 1 and done Mythic+ with my guild every week. That is about it.
Why go through the work when the OP was there to carry them?
05/17/2017 03:15 PMPosted by Beraht
05/17/2017 02:39 PMPosted by Spektro
1) Properly itemized gear.
2) Tier set bonuses.
3) Good Trinkets.
4) Proper Legendary items.
5) Third Relic Slot.
6) Proper amount of Artifact traits (36+, ideally 43+)


1) won't have that much of an impact. Properly itemized is good, raw budget can trump it, gonna have to sim to find out.

2), 3) 4) are all good answers. This is where your major gains in DPS come from actually.

5) and 6) are literally given to you now. You get the 3rd relic slot about 6-7 hours after hitting 110.


None of that changes the fact that all 6 affect your DPS. Whether or not it's "easy" or "hard" to get or if it affects the DPS "more" or "less" than the other items in the list isn't in question. You can have two people with ilvl 900+, one of which did all 6, and the other who did zero out of the 6.

The guy/girl who has all 6 boxes checked, will do more DPS than someone who doesn't have ANY of them checked. That's not up for debate.
05/17/2017 02:10 PMPosted by Trumpanzee
I was just in a mythic 10, thinking it was going to go well since we had 3 DPS at over 900... yet the other two DPS were consistently doing bad damage on not only trash packs, but being nearly tripled in damage by me on bosses and doing like 100k less then the tank.

How is it possible for people with this kind of gear to do such low dps? Do they just spam random attacks without any thought, or just tunneling mechanics so much that they can't find time to do their job? I just don't get it.


Well if they're all Versatility items...
05/17/2017 02:15 PMPosted by Lockoclock
Depends on how quick you kill everything. If you pull big groups of people, and they die in a global then I don't do much as an affliction lock.

I've had a few dungeon runs with friends where they'd make a huge pull of something like the crabs/slimes in EOA, and then aoe them down before I can even cast a SOC.

Made up for it on bosses though.

Generally if it dies in a few seconds my dps doesn't have a chance to really do anything.

No idea about other classes though.


True. In a +10, the other DPS would have to be pretty great to not allow a caster to get the ball rolling however.

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