Jaina Proudmoore

General Discussion
06/15/2017 03:32 PMPosted by Averyx
06/15/2017 03:18 PMPosted by Rea
She did a pretty convincing job of quitting the Alliance when she stormed out of the Stormwind throne room when Anduin rebuffed her calls for revenge against the Horde for their 'treachery' at the Broken Shore.

I have played both sides of the story here. The Alliance, outside of Genn, have denied her opportunity after opportunity to take revenge against the Horde for Theramore. Varian even chewed her out for what she and Vareesa did to the Horde in Dalaran after the bombing, which cost the Alliance the Blood Elves.


That's not quitting the Alliance, if that was the case most leaders would have left the Alliance already. She hasn't been trying revenge, she tried to disband the Horde as a dangerous faction and Varian was mad because negotiations with the BEs were down but it didn't really affect her.

06/15/2017 03:20 PMPosted by Zurilia
She was being a hyper-aggressive warmonger in front of a young man who had just lost his father.

Be spiteful towards the Horde all you want, but being just as aggressive as they WERE makes you no better.


Her friend and king had just died, the Alliance was abandoned and the intelligence they had was that it was the Horde plan all along (rogue quests) why wouldn't she be mad?. Is not like she insulted Anduin or anything, and as Genn and Velen say later, Anduin had to learn to act in times of war despite the pain.


I have one simple question, then.

Where is she?

This is (regardless of how much Bliz has failed to portray it in the world as such) the gravest threat faced by the planet since the War of the Ancients.. and yet one of the planets most powerful Archmages has been very absent from the defense of the planet since being told that she couldn't take revenge against the Horde for the Broken Shore.

This is a time when it is all hands on deck or else the world itself is destroyed.. and she is nowhere to be found.

-edits to add-

My point being, even if she doesn't want to support the Horde.. it is hard to be a supporter and member of the Alliance when it has been destroyed and the planet is burning in fel fires.
06/15/2017 03:43 PMPosted by Rea
This is a time when it is all hands on deck or else the world itself is destroyed.. and she is nowhere to be found.


My point exactly, she is being incredibly selfish.
06/15/2017 12:00 PMPosted by Quínn
She unsubbed


She was thinking about coming back, but saw the Mage class mount and decided against it.
06/15/2017 03:43 PMPosted by Rea
have one simple question, then.

Where is she?

This is (regardless of how much Bliz has failed to portray it in the world as such) the gravest threat faced by the planet since the War of the Ancients.. and yet one of the planets most powerful Archmages has been very absent from the defense of the planet since being told that she couldn't take revenge against the Horde for the Broken Shore.

This is a time when it is all hands on deck or else the world itself is destroyed.. and she is nowhere to be found.


06/15/2017 03:33 PMPosted by Blightfall
Seems quite strange though that she would let her personal feelings get in the way while the world is being attacked. What is she doing that is more important than THIS?


The same as every other important NPC that's not on Legion storyline is doing I guess. I mean, you could say the same about Baine, Lor'Themar, Alexstrasza, Wrathion, Muradin and all those that haven't show up. It doesn't matter Blizz doesn't use all characters every expac.

06/15/2017 03:43 PMPosted by Rea
My point being, even if she doesn't want to support the Horde.. it is hard to be a supporter and member of the Alliance when it has been destroyed and the planet is burning in fel fires.


It's simple, why work with the Horde when they are just gonna betray you and make things work?. Her reasoning is not "I won't work with the Horde and everyone should die for doing it", her reasoning is "I won't work with the Horde because that will just make things worse so better stay away from them".

Whether you agree or not with her, that's her reasoning.
06/15/2017 11:50 AMPosted by Regg
Falling prey to the influence of the Legion, and she will betray us the moment our victory seems most assured in an attempt to stick it to the Horde. Oh, what dramatic irony. In her hatred of Garrosh, she became just like him.


actually not.

garrosh killed his own kind.

she hasnt.
06/15/2017 04:12 PMPosted by Averyx
06/15/2017 03:43 PMPosted by Rea
have one simple question, then.

Where is she?

This is (regardless of how much Bliz has failed to portray it in the world as such) the gravest threat faced by the planet since the War of the Ancients.. and yet one of the planets most powerful Archmages has been very absent from the defense of the planet since being told that she couldn't take revenge against the Horde for the Broken Shore.

This is a time when it is all hands on deck or else the world itself is destroyed.. and she is nowhere to be found.


06/15/2017 03:33 PMPosted by Blightfall
Seems quite strange though that she would let her personal feelings get in the way while the world is being attacked. What is she doing that is more important than THIS?


The same as every other important NPC that's not on Legion storyline is doing I guess. I mean, you could say the same about Baine, Lor'Themar, Alexstrasza, Wrathion, Muradin and all those that haven't show up. It doesn't matter Blizz doesn't use all characters every expac.

06/15/2017 03:43 PMPosted by Rea
My point being, even if she doesn't want to support the Horde.. it is hard to be a supporter and member of the Alliance when it has been destroyed and the planet is burning in fel fires.


It's simple, why work with the Horde when they are just gonna betray you and make things work?. Her reasoning is not "I won't work with the Horde and everyone should die for doing it", her reasoning is "I won't work with the Horde because that will just make things worse so better stay away from them".

Whether you agree or not with her, that's her reasoning.


I have the same complaints about Baine and Lor'thramar because of their disappearance... but at least they didn't leave on a note that is very close to 'f*ck it' in the way Jaina did. There is only one person we have running off in a temper tantrum in this situation and that is Jaina. Baine's inactivity is exactly why I think Magatha Grimtotem actually makes a good point when she shows up at the Shaman Orderhall about why we should listen to her and work with her.

Also, with the last part you quoted... what you are saying is exactly my point. She doesn't have to support the Horde.. she doesn't have to work with the Horde.. but she damn well has a vested interest in keeping the planet going regardless of the Horde.

So.. again, where is she? The only images we really have in this expansion of her is her cries for vengeance and her walking away from everything that didn't follow her desires. What is she up to, where is she, and what is there to show that she is doing anything other than getting ready to go off her rocker and go for hard core revenge against the Horde?
There is no Jaina, only Zuul
This recurring anti-Jaina trash is the lamest feature in this forum, and that's no easy feat.
06/15/2017 04:29 PMPosted by Rea
I have the same complaints about Baine and Lor'thramar because of their disappearance... but at least they didn't leave on a note that is very close to 'f*ck it' in the way Jaina did. There is only one person we have running off in a temper tantrum in this situation and that is Jaina. Baine's inactivity is exactly why I think Magatha Grimtotem actually makes a good point when she shows up at the Shaman Orderhall about why we should listen to her and work with her.


Yeah but it's the only person that had to do that for the story to unfold. Unless Jaina left the Kirin Tor Dalaran wouldn't have been able to work as the hub this expac and Blizz wanted Dalaran back. It doesn't mean much outside of that.

06/15/2017 04:29 PMPosted by Rea
Also, with the last part you quoted... what you are saying is exactly my point. She doesn't have to support the Horde.. she doesn't have to work with the Horde.. but she damn well has a vested interest in keeping the planet going regardless of the Horde.

So.. again, where is she? The only images we really have in this expansion of her is her cries for vengeance and her walking away from everything that didn't follow her desires. What is she up to, where is she, and what is there to show that she is doing anything other than getting ready to go off her rocker and go for hard core revenge against the Horde?


What can she do alone though?. Demon Hunters, Wardens, BI factions, the Kirin Tor, The Alliance, the order halls everyone is working with the Horde and everyone is at the front. What is she supposed to do?.

Even if she's doing something, the players are working with the Horde so we won't see her.

There's no proof she's doing anything against the Horde either, and that's much more unlikely considering other than trying to convince Anduin, she wasn't really doing anything against the Horde, and even then she tried to focus on the Legion until Khadgar forced her out of Dalaran.
06/15/2017 12:50 PMPosted by Falgand
06/15/2017 12:38 PMPosted by Shadina
To be honest, I was just kidding. But if she is a dreadlord? I would love it.


You, maybe, but not everyone will. The backlash would just be too great, and Blizzard would be blamed for ruining her, chalking up her being a dreadlord as a lazy way of explaining her behavior.


Well a few people can explain her behaviour but most of the backlash is from sylvanas lovers who tried their damnedest to explain away her obviously supervillain behaviour yet harp on a clearly emotionally distraught person who is acting like any person would after having their life ruined by the people she tried to defend as good and righteous.
I'm tired of Horde and Alliance cooperation through common enemies. Let us once and for all have an expansion of the old days. Orcs vs Humans, Horde v Alliance. Give me death. Let us expel the forsaken and blood elves from the East. Let us rebuild the kingdoms of old that now stand in ruin with grotesque occupiers. Let the Horde have their lands in Kalimdor, but we should take what was once ours back. Give me a Warcraft 4 expansion. No more crazy enemies, just Alliance and Horde spilling blood on Azeroth soil.
06/15/2017 04:59 PMPosted by Averyx
06/15/2017 04:29 PMPosted by Rea
I have the same complaints about Baine and Lor'thramar because of their disappearance... but at least they didn't leave on a note that is very close to 'f*ck it' in the way Jaina did. There is only one person we have running off in a temper tantrum in this situation and that is Jaina. Baine's inactivity is exactly why I think Magatha Grimtotem actually makes a good point when she shows up at the Shaman Orderhall about why we should listen to her and work with her.


Yeah but it's the only person that had to do that for the story to unfold. Unless Jaina left the Kirin Tor Dalaran wouldn't have been able to work as the hub this expac and Blizz wanted Dalaran back. It doesn't mean much outside of that.

06/15/2017 04:29 PMPosted by Rea
Also, with the last part you quoted... what you are saying is exactly my point. She doesn't have to support the Horde.. she doesn't have to work with the Horde.. but she damn well has a vested interest in keeping the planet going regardless of the Horde.

So.. again, where is she? The only images we really have in this expansion of her is her cries for vengeance and her walking away from everything that didn't follow her desires. What is she up to, where is she, and what is there to show that she is doing anything other than getting ready to go off her rocker and go for hard core revenge against the Horde?


What can she do alone though?. Demon Hunters, Wardens, BI factions, the Kirin Tor, The Alliance, the order halls everyone is working with the Horde and everyone is at the front. What is she supposed to do?.

Even if she's doing something, the players are working with the Horde so we won't see her.

There's no proof she's doing anything against the Horde either, and that's much more unlikely considering other than trying to convince Anduin, she wasn't really doing anything against the Horde, and even then she tried to focus on the Legion until Khadgar forced her out of Dalaran.


There is more proof that she is planning something against the Horde than she is running off on her own.

The whole deal with her this expansion is a deal about being angered by inaction of the Alliance against the Horde.

First, it was because the Counsel of Archmages voted to allow the Horde back into Dalaran over her objection. This cost her the Kirin Tor because she couldn't abide by having the Horde back in the city.

Then she leaves Stormwind in a huff specifically because Anduin refused her counsel to take revenge against the Horde for their 'betrayal' at the Broken Shore.

This is the last thing we see of her. Her demands for taking revenge and being rebuffed in her demands.

There has been no sign of her since... not even for the Alliance, who should be the ones directly receiving her help and support.
06/15/2017 05:16 PMPosted by Thoridan
I'm tired of Horde and Alliance cooperation through common enemies. Let us once and for all have an expansion of the old days. Orcs vs Humans, Horde v Alliance. Give me death. Let us expel the forsaken and blood elves from the East. Let us rebuild the kingdoms of old that now stand in ruin with grotesque occupiers. Let the Horde have their lands in Kalimdor, but we should take what was once ours back. Give me a Warcraft 4 expansion. No more crazy enemies, just Alliance and Horde spilling blood on Azeroth soil.


The Forsaken have the best claim to the lands of Lordaeron, as the faction made primarily of a people from that land. It's not their fault someone decided to make them undead and the people they loved decided to exile them and try to kill them instead of accepting their new condition.
What if Jaina went to Kul Tiras to enlist their aid, and found Old God trouble there that kept her from returning?
Maybe she found a problem she was stuck trying to deal with by herself because everyone else is busy with the demons.

We've gotten a bunch of Old God hints, what if she is the lead-in for the next storyline, not as a villain, but as a herald?
By the time she can get away and return to us, we have pushed back the demons, had a breather, and are looking for the next foe down the line.
What if Jaina went to Kul Tiras to enlist their aid, and found Old God trouble there that kept her from returning?
Maybe she found a problem she was stuck trying to deal with by herself because everyone else is busy with the demons.

What if she is the lead-in for the next storyline, not as a villain, but as a herald?
By the time she can get away and return to us, we have pushed back the demons, had a breather, and are looking for the next foe down the line.


Then doesn't she owe it to Anduin and Vellen, at least, to send them a letter, a message, and/or a carrier to give them a heads up about what is going on?
I mean I have ideas of where :P
06/15/2017 05:16 PMPosted by Thoridan
I'm tired of Horde and Alliance cooperation through common enemies. Let us once and for all have an expansion of the old days. Orcs vs Humans, Horde v Alliance. Give me death. Let us expel the forsaken and blood elves from the East. Let us rebuild the kingdoms of old that now stand in ruin with grotesque occupiers. Let the Horde have their lands in Kalimdor, but we should take what was once ours back. Give me a Warcraft 4 expansion. No more crazy enemies, just Alliance and Horde spilling blood on Azeroth soil.


I find basic horde vs alliance rather boring, and after all these years, it just comes off as contrived. Especially after teaming up to stop planet destroying threats. Honestly, even the RTS games, I found the outside threat storylines much more interesting that petty squabbles between horde and alliance, like two groups of children fighting over parts of the playground. I wouldnt mind going back to smaller threats rather than a giant global threat after two massive OMGWTFBBQ The Legion expansions. Dont have to team up, and depending on faction, its you and your faction going in alone to stop it.

If they could, just give each faction, three or so different threats to go after. Unfortunately, that would take a lot of time, and people would cry out unfair that "horde get this" and "alliance get that". I think a horde only raid and an alliance only raid would be cool. Have them be horde in kalimdor, and alliance in east. kingdoms. Three small raids each. Maybe have a large raid for the next tier but split it half with horde going in one side, alliance in the other, sharing a couple bosses with the last boss where you fight to take down one large boss with smaller NPC opposite faction members to simulate a raid team like the Illidan scenario, that will attack the boss with the raid leader calling through the fight to kill the other faction to take the glory of the kill. I suppose I am thinking to grand for the WoW engine on this.
She'll be the special Mythic only fight for Kil'Jaiden in ToS. Or Sargeras(or whoever end boss of Argus is) Having turned to the Legion.
06/15/2017 05:30 PMPosted by Canopia
06/15/2017 05:16 PMPosted by Thoridan
I'm tired of Horde and Alliance cooperation through common enemies. Let us once and for all have an expansion of the old days. Orcs vs Humans, Horde v Alliance. Give me death. Let us expel the forsaken and blood elves from the East. Let us rebuild the kingdoms of old that now stand in ruin with grotesque occupiers. Let the Horde have their lands in Kalimdor, but we should take what was once ours back. Give me a Warcraft 4 expansion. No more crazy enemies, just Alliance and Horde spilling blood on Azeroth soil.


I find basic horde vs alliance rather boring, and after all these years, it just comes off as contrived. Especially after teaming up to stop planet destroying threats. Honestly, even the RTS games, I found the outside threat storylines much more interesting that petty squabbles between horde and alliance, like two groups of children fighting over parts of the playground. I wouldnt mind going back to smaller threats rather than a giant global threat after two massive OMGWTFBBQ The Legion expansions. Dont have to team up, and depending on faction, its you and your faction going in alone to stop it.

If they could, just give each faction, three or so different threats to go after. Unfortunately, that would take a lot of time, and people would cry out unfair that "horde get this" and "alliance get that". I think a horde only raid and an alliance only raid would be cool. Have them be horde in kalimdor, and alliance in east. kingdoms. Three small raids each. Maybe have a large raid for the next tier but split it half with horde going in one side, alliance in the other, sharing a couple bosses with the last boss where you fight to take down one large boss with smaller NPC opposite faction members to simulate a raid team like the Illidan scenario, that will attack the boss with the raid leader calling through the fight to kill the other faction to take the glory of the kill. I suppose I am thinking to grand for the WoW engine on this.


Honestly, the only issue that I have with Horde vs. Alliance is when it feels forced and the reasons are contrived, like they are in Legion.

The conflict right now basically comes down to Genn and Admiral Rogers attacking because they thought the Forsaken were in a vulnerable position(They didn't know what Sylvanas's plan was, only that she was up to something at that point). At this point, they are lucky that Sylvanas has apparently disappeared and hasn't dragged the greater Horde forces into crushing the Gilneans on the Broken Shore.
06/15/2017 05:28 PMPosted by Rea
What if Jaina went to Kul Tiras to enlist their aid, and found Old God trouble there that kept her from returning?
Maybe she found a problem she was stuck trying to deal with by herself because everyone else is busy with the demons.

What if she is the lead-in for the next storyline, not as a villain, but as a herald?
By the time she can get away and return to us, we have pushed back the demons, had a breather, and are looking for the next foe down the line.


Then doesn't she owe it to Anduin and Vellen, at least, to send them a letter, a message, and/or a carrier to give them a heads up about what is going on?


She doesn't owe anyone anything. She asked for help, she never got help for Theramore. Everyone pretty much snubbed her. She has done quite a bit for the Alliance, and has gotten no aid in return.

The only reason why she is still part of the alliance at this point is because she a human, originally from the Kul'Tiras nation, one of the original 7 human nations under the Lorderon Alliance banner.

Jaina and Theramore have been pretty much cast aside as irrelevant to the causes of the Alliance. This is pretty much how Stormwind felt in the Gnoll Wars when they asked for help from Lorderon and Stromgard.

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