Havoc Discussions - 7.2.5 Mechanics and Feel

Legion Class Development
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*****HIGH PRIORITY: Lore reponded to this thread on page 45. I am modifying this thread to now be a general feeedback thread, or I can create a new one if the moderators would like. *****

Please use this thread to provide constructive feedback to the developers about other mechanics of Havoc than Demon Blades. We can still help them improve the class this way.

The revert on the change to Demon Blades was probably the one thing I feel should have been avoided. Everything else would have been better to adjust if you wanted to change anything further.

With this revert, you have forced us into a spot where we still do not have the consistency to give you quality feedback. We will be giving you either really good feedback, because we had good luck, or absolutely terrible feedback, because we were forced to do nothing but wait for fury from Demon Blades again. The 60% proc rate of 12-20 leads to a feeling of "feast or famine," where you either are waiting on fury during your cooldowns due to no procs (either by AA misses or non procs), or you feel like you literally cannot spend all of your fury. This was mostly solved by the 100% proc rate, which, combined with the new 18 second duration chaos blades meant you would always have fury during your cooldowns, which lead to less feelsbad moments. Numerically, the two were basically equal, so it seems to be a mechanical only change - and one that seems to be a step backwards.

Also, the inconsistency of this implementation of Demon Blades swings the variance too far in the wrong direction. The stark difference between good and bad luck - which cannot be manipulated in any way by good or bad play - makes it very difficult for the average player to identify when things are actually going wrong, or when they had poor luck. This is exacerbated by healthy RNG elsewhere in the spec (read - Chaos Strike crits) that when combined has an unpleasant playstyle effect on players.

This is especially noticeable when you read feedback from players that identify the massive swings between positive and negative streaks of RNG during cooldowns - something that has by now become a core part of the specs gameplay.

For feedback on Prepared, Vengeful Retreat's cool-down of 15 seconds, and the 10 seconds it takes to receive the fury, is too long to be worthwhile to take. Over 1 minute, it only generates 400 fury, and that's assuming you can use it every time it is off cool-down, without delay, from the 0 second mark to the 60 second mark. When boss mechanics that require specific positioning are included in this situation, its fury generation decreases, since we may not be able to use it as often as necessary. We also run the risk of being out of boss range, or away from a priority target that needs to die quickly, because of Vengeful Retreat's movement.

The 100% Demon Blades was providing us with 409 Fury per minute, and the feeling of consistency we have been lacking for the majority of the expansion. It allows us to maintain specific positioning required for certain mechanics, as well as the ability to prepare ourselves in advance for burst phases on priority targets, by giving us a consistent resource generation to pool with.

I ask you to please reconsider this revert. I love this class, but eventually everyone gets tired of having a random number determine their fate. Please return Demon Blades to 100% chance, so that we can gain the consistency required to give you quality feedback on the performance of the class.


Kalino, Zarania, Wordup, Strifelol, Lazel, Fragnance and the DH Community
If you are replying to this thread, please try and avoid raging, or crying, or blaming something on someone. I want to try and keep this as focused and professional as possible so that the devs have quality feedback to go off of.

And thank you Kalino
I am reminded of the problem that Warriors had for a long period time each expansion where the pendulum of fury starved, and fury capping swung wide and hard. swinging more to the former at the start of expack, and further to the later at the end of the expack. The primary difference being: We aren't seeing the swing to cap.

Even if you don't think we need the 100%... bumping it to 80% will still go further in smoothing out our fury gen/spending. The amount of fury "droughts" I consistently get, ESPECIALLY when I don't have Anger of the Half Giants, has at times been CRIPPLING. When your fury generation is so random that your dps swings up or down by 150 to 200k based not on your class skill, but on your class luck, that is indicative of an extremely flawed design.

80% for 18 to 25 fury would fix the many of the Fury gen/QoL issues without breaking spec.
You put into words exactly what I was thinking, but I just wasnt in the right mind to think of them. Thank you!
It would be amazing to get a GM response to why this was reverted. /bump
i really hope this change wasn't intentional. i really enjoyed the consistency which 100% proc rate of demon blades offered. feels less clunky than the current iteration. as the OP mentioned it's hard to give quality feedback with the way demon blades currently works. it often feels like the feast or famine situation mentioned. where i'm either easily over-capping on fury, thus loving the spec. or sitting for 5-10 secs at a time (sometimes longer) waiting to even blade dance, thus wishing i had more consistency in my resource generation.
Bump, even though Blizzard doesn't care what we have to say.
So the big mechanical changes promised are just a change to Chaos Blades at this point.

The demon blades change was such a good QoL buff for DH and it averaged the same DPS as the old one, no reason whatsoever for Blizzard to revert it back. I agree with everything OP said, and i hope they will reconsider it.

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