Unholy Determination FoS removed in 7.2.5

General Discussion
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Sigh, another case of stuff getting removed a few days after it's added. That's the whole expansion in a sentence.
06/08/2017 03:07 AMPosted by Kyzera
I can appreciate that no-one likes having something taken away from them. To try and clarify a little bit why we came to this decision; during the course of the PTR testing feedback from the community overwhelmingly pointed out that a missable achievement was both unfun for players that missed it, and unfun for players that felt compelled to slaughter innocent red dragons to achieve it.

I do also want to mention that, while the Feat of Strength will be removed, the special voice line from Bolvar will still play if players choose to follow this particular route.


That blue from EU..... those dragons were not innocent, they were hostle red nametagged enemies when i entered ruby sanctum
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


Pack your bags; you're about to go on a guilt trip.

With yelling, and some angry flailing.
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


do I get a feat of strength for having my achievement removed?
06/08/2017 04:29 AMPosted by Blightfury
Are you !@#$ing kidding me? For real? "We're gonna erase it from the game because some people are salty that they didn't get it"

Might as well erase:
Titles
Mounts
AOTC
PVP Rating
Gear sets
Weapons (Like old Corrupted Ashbringer)

Because some people didn't get them.

God I really hate people sometimes.


Sure, just gloss over the "Whoops we never intended that to go live" part.
This seems like total BS. Over the course of playing the game every player has killed way more Murlocs, Kobalds and other sentient beings tenfold beyond a few stupid dragons and nobody cries about that.
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


Even as someone without this FOS I think its a bad idea to remove something. Unobtainable mounts, titles ect are cool because of the small amount of people to have them. Why not let people keep it after they gave in to their inner death knight?

If it is that important to get the achieve people would roll another DK, if not? I think they should be SOL. These small semi hidden things help make the game fun.

Are you gonna take away everyone's WOD CM xmog since I didn't get it?
Taking rewards from players just because someone else didn't get it is idiotic.
06/08/2017 08:11 AMPosted by Ravenskar
I think giving DKs an option to do the scenario again would be better received than removing the Feat from people who already have it.

Having something taken away is never fun.


One thing you don't realize is IF they give the DKs the ability to redo the scenario, then EVERY other class (except rogues who have to go into open world opposing cities) will want a way to redo their scenarios (for whatever reasons they come up with to want it, not going to try to speculate those because most of them won't make sense but will still be loud).

Removing it from those who have it isn't fair, but taking it away opens a smaller can of worms than finding a way to make it repeatable.

Also, it's only a Feat of Strength. Feats of Strength don't give achievement points therefore are cool to have but ultimately useless.

Personally, before this announcement I was going to be proud to NOT have gotten it on my DK alt, because it means he hasn't lost all of his morals with death.
06/08/2017 09:17 AMPosted by Grindelwald
Hm I don't really care but it's weird logic. Isn't this the point of a FoS? I logged in during an anniversary event and got the Onyxia whelp. Others didn't so they can't get it. I played when you could raise weapon skills and got "knuckle sandwich" FoS and other didn't. Why is this one different? It's time/try limited(1 shot is extreme I guess) and has no impact(no cosmetic rewards or whatever else) or anything, not even a players achievement point total.

The whole point of feat of strength is they are rare and limited. Achievements are for repeatable try things. I always thought that was the differentiation between them at least.


The real issue is that it was never intended to go live. Those feedback reasons they are talking about are from the PTR and internally, not live feedback. There is no FoS that I can name where the player has literally only 1 opportunity to get it then never again without any knowledge that it existed in the first place.

It'd be akin to a FoS that was only granted if the first character you ever made was a male dwarf with the third beard option.
06/08/2017 11:01 AMPosted by Dabsmoker
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


Even as someone without this FOS I think its a bad idea to remove something. Unobtainable mounts, titles ect are cool because of the small amount of people to have them. Why not let people keep it after they gave in to their inner death knight?

If it is that important to get the achieve people would roll another DK, if not? I think they should be SOL. These small semi hidden things help make the game fun.

Are you gonna take away everyone's WOD CM xmog since I didn't get it?
Taking rewards from players just because someone else didn't get it is idiotic.


They aren't taking it away cause someone didn't get it. They're taking it away because it wasn't intended to go live. The reasons they listed for it being bad were given during PTR and led to them deciding not to release it.
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


They could just make another DK. Its a feat of strength for a reason.
So what about all the other missable stuff through WoW's history (looking at you spirit of competition)?
06/08/2017 11:13 AMPosted by Hamstar
So what about all the other missable stuff through WoW's history (looking at you spirit of competition)?


Not comparable as has already been outlined. This was a 1shot FoS that had no advertisement at all and wasnt meant to go live. Spirit of Competition was a heavily advertised event that coincided with the 16 day Olympics.
Tons of feats of strength are now unobtainable, the reasoning that blizzard gives makes no sense.

@post above me, one example the legion pre event FoS had no advertisement players looked it up on sites like wowhead. I knew about these mount questline FoS before the patch went live.

Also, "not taking it away because someone didn't get it". From Ornyx "Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it." Sounds like they are taking it away because people miss it to me.
06/08/2017 11:12 AMPosted by Hazzulu
06/08/2017 11:01 AMPosted by Dabsmoker
...

Even as someone without this FOS I think its a bad idea to remove something. Unobtainable mounts, titles ect are cool because of the small amount of people to have them. Why not let people keep it after they gave in to their inner death knight?

If it is that important to get the achieve people would roll another DK, if not? I think they should be SOL. These small semi hidden things help make the game fun.

Are you gonna take away everyone's WOD CM xmog since I didn't get it?
Taking rewards from players just because someone else didn't get it is idiotic.


They aren't taking it away cause someone didn't get it. They're taking it away because it wasn't intended to go live. The reasons they listed for it being bad were given during PTR and led to them deciding not to release it.


Yes but my point is it DID go live.
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights


Let us rerun the scenarios for fun!

Then DK mains who missed it and upcoming DKs could get it should they choose. Make it a normal achv for the remainder of Legion so people see it, and move it to Legacy when Legion ends.

And no, my main is not a DK. I just like doin' stuff.
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


It really depends on the context and I hope you don't take the wrong lesson from this. Small bits of flavor like storyline changes depending on HOW you play your character are fantastic. I would absolutely love to see stuff like this become so common place that we are constantly out searching for the secrets and hidden bits.

BUT we've been trained to no longer expect anything other than quests where we helicopter from one yellow circle to another. We had 10 weeks of filler garbage quests that led up to this. Over the years Wow has reused old models to an absurd degree, relied on daily repeatable grinding content, and generally been devoid of story decisions that actually changed the outcome of any particular quest.

It seems like you guys might be changing that though. From the Riddler's Mind-Worm to every little fun tidbit of the artifact side-effects it seems like there is a glimmer of hope here. Please don't let the recent outcry be an obstacle to continuing that trend. Feats of strength that are easy to miss forever may not be fun, but many hidden ones in general would be amazing.
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


So I can kiss Breaker of the Black Harvest, weekend events, MICRO HOLIDAY'S etc, goodbye as well? Good to know, thanks bud.

Nearly forgot one, every single Ahead of the Curve Achievement. Intended or not that's how much logic is behind what's happening here; I.E. none.

Come at me bro ; )
06/08/2017 10:48 AMPosted by Ornyx
Copying my post over from another thread:

Feedback from the community noted that a missable achievement was unfun for the players that missed it. While we've chosen to remove the Feats of Strength granted in the questlines overall, the voice line from Bolvar will still play if players do choose to go down this path as Death Knights.

As was alluded to, these Feats were not meant to go live, as we had previously decided that they were misaligned with our general look towards achievements, namely that they were unobtainable if missed in a non-repeatable quest area. Again, these will no longer be obtainable in 7.2.5, and for players who did obtain the achievement it will be removed.


It is still unfair to take it a way from those who did complete it. I put effort, minimal as it may be, into that achievment. Oh well. I still have the memory of Bolvar telling me how empty I am.

I guess you can't take my screenshot away, so there's that. They'll always be the memory, always. Hahahahaha. Sorry.

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